Reconciling the films contunity

[marvelrobbins]

I am totallya ware of the shot of empty wheelchair but we have heard things and seen things In the trailer that support the throwing out Wolverine and Last Stand argurment.

[Eelectro 2]

im hoping that first class doesnt contradict x3 or wolverine origins. i understand its going to be hard to revolve around key scenes in x3 (walking bald xavier and magneto recruiting jean) and wolverine (xaviers appearance at the end) but its possible that they could pull it off. it all really depends on how much of a split magneto and xavier create between each other in this film. or if xavier goes bald and wheelchair bound. i think it would be in the best interest of first class to not include xavier losing his hair or being crippled in this movie or even a sequel and for him and magneto to have tension but not split.

i really want this to be a prequel to the other films and the way xavier and magneto talk with each other for the first time in x1 it doesnt seem like its been too long since their departure. clearly they dont hate each other but i would find it rather odd if they split in the 60s and then see each other 40 years later and xavier hasnt tracked him down to reason with him during that time.

i dont expect the first class movies (assuming there are more) to shoot through time seeing the characters 10 years older everytime but it would be nice to see a sequel or 2 where they are still on the same side for the most part, at least up until they recruit jean. that would be a perfect nod to the 3rd film if they somehow included her recruitment, even tho its supposedly in the 80s according to the 3rd film.

as far as wolverine origins...well, i do like that film but i feel that having xavier at the end seemed a little odd now that we have first class. it makes sense for scott to go with him from that moment, gambit should have as well, and i really dont care about emma or deadpool being in that film as much as others do, i just dont want to look back and watch this film after first class and see xavier bald and standing and have it irk me because it doesnt make sense. obviously they havent changed that scenes existence, yet, and im hoping the scriptwriters were smart enough (and singer) to make everything weve seen so far (for the main parts) canon. hank on the tv i dont really count cuz at that time he was just a cameo, no big part. at least beast in x3 is mentioned to have appeared with the team in the past, but does that mean we will see storm and beast on screen at the same time? clearly she would have to be a young child

and im still hoping an x4 is made (maybe singer will do it) that way all of these films are canon and the confusion will be cleared up.

[Nave 'Torment']

What we need to be conscious about is that this film MIGHT take place over a span of a few decades. It might end in the 80s, that's when their fallout might occur. Just saying that we don't know what's going to happen yet.

The scene in X3 can be easily resolved by showing that Erik and Charles are still pals when he goes bald. Right now I'm guessing (and it's a mighty guess) that he loses his hair prior to using Cerebro for the first time.

Regarding continuity, yes I hope that it stays true to the films in the entire franchise, making the X-Men our first superhero meta-series on film (though much of it has been suggested with XO anyway).

As Eelectro 2 says, Beast is shown to be among Xavier's old students, just like it's been explained in X3 (which I think is a brilliant notion).

I wonder though... can we expect a canonical Uncanny X-Men? With Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, 'Angel' (Salvadore), and an even younger Ice-Man? Can it be done? Should Storm be in it for the sake of continuity? Should it be Havok and perhaps some other teenager like Forge?

[epc11223]

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

What we need to be conscious about is that this film MIGHT take place over a span of a few decades. It might end in the 80s, that's when their fallout might occur. Just saying that we don't know what's going to happen yet.

The scene in X3 can be easily resolved by showing that Erik and Charles are still pals when he goes bald. Right now I'm guessing (and it's a mighty guess) that he loses his hair prior to using Cerebro for the first time.

Regarding continuity, yes I hope that it stays true to the films in the entire franchise, making the X-Men our first superhero meta-series on film (though much of it has been suggested with XO anyway).

As Eelectro 2 says, Beast is shown to be among Xavier's old students, just like it's been explained in X3 (which I think is a brilliant notion).

I wonder though... can we expect a canonical Uncanny X-Men? With Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, 'Angel' (Salvadore), and an even younger Ice-Man? Can it be done? Should Storm be in it for the sake of continuity? Should it be Havok and perhaps some other teenager like Forge?

i think from one of the interviews it was said that mcavoy doesn't lost his hair in this one. im not sure where i read that though. i think for a sequel maybe he'd lose his hair.

[Mr. Fixit]

"Adjust to inflation and both X-Men and X2 made more many than the last two, if I'm correct."

^^ LoL I'm sorry I found that kinda funny because the movies weren't released that far apart for inflation to be such a significant issue.Face it, x3 made more money overall.....but that doesn't mean you have to like it or that it was the best in the series.

As far as continuity goes....really the film's creators are going to do whatever they want regardless of what we want or think. But I'd like to see them try to work around and be conscious of the events in x3.

Wolverine origins I could care less.

[DieSmiling]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fixit

"Adjust to inflation and both X-Men and X2 made more many than the last two, if I'm correct."

^^ LoL I'm sorry I found that kinda funny because the movies weren't released that far apart for inflation to be such a significant issue.Face it, x3 made more money overall.....but that doesn't mean you have to like it or that it was the best in the series.

Actually that's incorrect. If you adjust for inflation, X-2 made the most money, domestically at least (it's impossible to adjust worldwide gross for inflation).

X2: 250 mil
TLS: 249 mil
X-Men: 197 mil
Wolverine: 179 mil

[Eelectro 2]

i'll be disappointed if they dont relate them to all existing x-men films of recently (the ones with hugh jackman) with this film.

and i dont think they would need to include cyclops or jean in this film series, until much later anyway. this is a perfect opportunity to see other mutants with unique abilities and not have to rely on whats already been done. if magneto doesnt become the bad guy for these films it at least gives us more chances to see other great villains. i've always liked the idea of taking lesser comic villains and making them into serious threats instead of always going for the most popular.

if they do make a 4th x-men, i would very much like to see apocalypse finally realized onscreen tho. it could redeem angel as a horseman and maybe even rogue. i could imagine the film being called 'x-men: apocalypse' too.

[chaseter]

Why would anyone want to connect this film to Wolverine Origins??? I mean really? Even the Wolverine sequel, The Wolverine, is forgetting Wolverine Origins. That is hilarious that everyone involved in the movies realized that Origins was terrible...even Hugh Jackman. So no, please stay as far away from that movie as possible.

[DACrowe]

This film is not going to span decades. It spans the Cuban Missile Crisis which lasted thirteen days. That was even the name of a very good movie on the subject (Thirteen Days).

However, other than Beast going cat mode and Emma Frost being in this thereby retconning her 1 minute cameo in Wolverine (as X3 retconned Beast's cameo in X2), I don't see how this contradicts Origins and X3.

I doubt that they'll end the partnership between Charles and Xavier here so as to set up sequels (which if they do take place in the '60s as well, will contradict the prologue of X3) but otherwise it takes place in 1962. Charles can walk and has hair in this film, while he is friends with Magneto? So, what? The earliest appearance in the timeline was when he saves Cyclops and co. at Three Mile Island. That meltdown happened in 1979. So as long as he isn't crippled in the potential franchise, there is no contradiction.

Now if they make sequels and Charles/Erik turn on each other there (likely) that will contradict the opening scene of X3 that took place sometime in the early '80s (I forget when as I haven't watched that POS since theaters). But these are small things. Emma is the only big thing, but that is again an insignificant change as she had nothing but a glorified cameo in Wolverine. Just as Beast had a blink and you missed it cameo as non-blue in X2 and Kitty Pryde was played by a different actress in all three movies (with a grand screen total of probably 8 minutes, 7 of which came from the last movie).

But I won't lose sleep over it, because Wolverine/X3 sucked and if things don't line up, I'm fine with it. I tend to pretend X3 never happened either. Despite Wolverine's lousiness I don't think it hurt the film mythos....other than the memory wiping magic bullet crap and killing Deadpool....Yeah, actually let's just erase Wolverine as well.

[redhawk23]

Originally Posted by Wolverine1988

Batman Begins was NEVER intended as a prequel, that was just fan speculation .

Harvey Dent used three times?Joker a plethora of times?

Besides any cartoons, Two Face has only been seen twice and Joker twice...


This movie IS going to end up being a prequel, is it really that hard for them to just not include the Wolverine movie?

Besides all this Continuity is only a problem with the pain in the ass x-men fans, the average movie goer doesn't give a **** or won't even notice.

Yep, that happenned.

[redhawk23]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fixit

"Adjust to inflation and both X-Men and X2 made more many than the last two, if I'm correct."

^^ LoL I'm sorry I found that kinda funny because the movies weren't released that far apart for inflation to be such a significant issue.Face it, x3 made more money overall.....but that doesn't mean you have to like it or that it was the best in the series.

As far as continuity goes....really the film's creators are going to do whatever they want regardless of what we want or think. But I'd like to see them try to work around and be conscious of the events in x3.

Wolverine origins I could care less.

Ticket prices move faster than inflation these days.

[night0205]

All of the X-films have issues... with X2 being the least... but X1... I'm sorry but the first X-men had some very silly elements... mainly the entire main plot about Magneto trying to turn everyone into mutants. Everyone hates Wolverine Origins... but Victor Creed in WO was a much more interesting character then in the first X-men. Sometimes I wonder if this "hate" for certain movies is just people's views being changed by peer pressure, or maybe if someone says something long enough everyone starts to believe it. X-men 1 was just as silly as the rest of the X-men movies. Did everyone forget some of the dialogue... "Do you know what happens to a toad when it gets struck by lightning?" Don't get my wrong, I love the movie, but saying it's far superior to the rest is silly. All this talk about rebooting or Retconning is just speculation because we know for a fact that Fox has tried extremely hard to keep continuity. They kept it with Wolverine Origins, they are keeping it with First Class, and as far as we know The Wolverine as well. Except we won't have the cameos of the other movies, because it's Wolverine's personal story. Unless we see some evidence that Fox is rebooting or canceling out certain movies, there is no reason to say that's how it is just because you dislike one movie over another. If you are a real hardcore x-men comic book fan, then you should probably hate ALL the movies, with all the changes they have made. I can understand people saying they want a complete reboot, and I can understand people saying they like all the movies, but if you are a fan of the franchise accept the reality that these films were in fact released... and are in fact part of the franchise. Denial... It's a hard one I guess.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by night0205

All of the X-films have issues... with X2 being the least... but X1... I'm sorry but the first X-men had some very silly elements... mainly the entire main plot about Magneto trying to turn everyone into mutants. Everyone hates Wolverine Origins... but Victor Creed in WO was a much more interesting character then in the first X-men. Sometimes I wonder if this "hate" for certain movies is just people's views being changed by peer pressure, or maybe if someone says something long enough everyone starts to believe it. X-men 1 was just as silly as the rest of the X-men movies. Did everyone forget some of the dialogue... "Do you know what happens to a toad when it gets struck by lightning?" Don't get my wrong, I love the movie, but saying it's far superior to the rest is silly. All this talk about rebooting or Retconning is just speculation because we know for a fact that Fox has tried extremely hard to keep continuity. They kept it with Wolverine Origins, they are keeping it with First Class, and as far as we know The Wolverine as well. Except we won't have the cameos of the other movies, because it's Wolverine's personal story. Unless we see some evidence that Fox is rebooting or canceling out certain movies, there is no reason to say that's how it is just because you dislike one movie over another. If you are a real hardcore x-men comic book fan, then you should probably hate ALL the movies, with all the changes they have made. I can understand people saying they want a complete reboot, and I can understand people saying they like all the movies, but if you are a fan of the franchise accept the reality that these films were in fact released... and are in fact part of the franchise. Denial... It's a hard one I guess.

This times like a million.

[Nave 'Torment']

Originally Posted by chaseter

Why would anyone want to connect this film to Wolverine Origins??? I mean really? Even the Wolverine sequel, The Wolverine, is forgetting Wolverine Origins. That is hilarious that everyone involved in the movies realized that Origins was terrible...even Hugh Jackman. So no, please stay as far away from that movie as possible.

I don't know about the rest of the supporters, but I'm only saying that keeping an eye out for the film-continuity doesn't necessarily ruin this film. Not one bit.

Originally Posted by DACrowe

This film is not going to span decades. It spans the Cuban Missile Crisis which lasted thirteen days. That was even the name of a very good movie on the subject (Thirteen Days).

How do you know it won't span decades? Where does it say that it spans the Cuban Missile Crisis? For all we know those 13 days could simply be a part of the narrative, and near the epilogue things go further.

Originally Posted by DACrowe

However, other than Beast going cat mode and Emma Frost being in this thereby retconning her 1 minute cameo in Wolverine (as X3 retconned Beast's cameo in X2), I don't see how this contradicts Origins and X3.

I agree that this doesn't contradict Origins and X3, that girl was called 'Emma' but never billed as 'Emma Frost'. Anyway, I don't think X3 necessarily retconned Beast's cameo in X2. The guy evolves, for all we know he evolved completely into Beast by the time X3 started, and before it he's had sporadic outbursts or something. Just saying, because the trailer gave us a hint at his evolution, not instantaneous transformation.

Originally Posted by DACrowe

I doubt that they'll end the partnership between Charles and Xavier here so as to set up sequels (which if they do take place in the '60s as well, will contradict the prologue of X3) but otherwise it takes place in 1962. Charles can walk and has hair in this film, while he is friends with Magneto? So, what? The earliest appearance in the timeline was when he saves Cyclops and co. at Three Mile Island. That meltdown happened in 1979. So as long as he isn't crippled in the potential franchise, there is no contradiction.

Thank you that's exactly what I've been saying here. Although, the premise does say that this chronicles the end of their alliance. The same premise mentions that the narrative will parallel both the Cuban Missile Crisis AND the Civil Rights Movement (which ended in the late 60s, and of course, retains those Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. analogies). If these encompass the core plot, a 'flash forward' or something similar isn't altogether impossible. It's been confirmed that McAvoy will be crippled and turn bald, it's part of the appeal. And right now, I don't think any one is thinking about sequels. At least I certainly hope they aren't.

Originally Posted by DACrowe

But I won't lose sleep over it, because Wolverine/X3 sucked and if things don't line up, I'm fine with it. I tend to pretend X3 never happened either. Despite Wolverine's lousiness I don't think it hurt the film mythos....other than the memory wiping magic bullet crap and killing Deadpool....Yeah, actually let's just erase Wolverine as well.

Yeah, that was just banal. But like you said - it doesn't hurt the FILM MYTHOS.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by night0205

. All this talk about rebooting or Retconning is just speculation because we know for a fact that Fox has tried extremely hard to keep continuity.

I don't see a reboot happening anytime soon either. If they don't make X-men 4 after this film then we'll probably get a first class trilogy, which isn't too bad of a trade off.

[Kal-El.9859]

they have screwed this franchise into the ground and then stomped on it. If people think Superman Returns was bad, they need look no further than X-Men. They can't evem keep the continuity straight. Sure Superman Returns didn't blow people's minds but they are butchering The X-Men in my eyes

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by night0205

All of the X-films have issues... with X2 being the least... but X1... I'm sorry but the first X-men had some very silly elements... mainly the entire main plot about Magneto trying to turn everyone into mutants. Everyone hates Wolverine Origins... but Victor Creed in WO was a much more interesting character then in the first X-men. Sometimes I wonder if this "hate" for certain movies is just people's views being changed by peer pressure, or maybe if someone says something long enough everyone starts to believe it. X-men 1 was just as silly as the rest of the X-men movies. Did everyone forget some of the dialogue... "Do you know what happens to a toad when it gets struck by lightning?" Don't get my wrong, I love the movie, but saying it's far superior to the rest is silly.

Dont worry these people conveniently forget moments like that from X1 because Singer is an uber godsend filmaker and invented comic book films. They also forget the nonce that was Sabertooth in X1. That's why they keep trotting out the same lame excuse that 'we' should not consider X3 or Wolverine as part of the X-men film continuity...oh I wonder why

You then point out the inconsistency between First Class and X1 and get told to 'ignore it'. **** that! When I add First Class to my DVD box set as far as I'm concerned its one big story that's being told.

[The Cocreator]

In my thread
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=348401
I analyse every movie and the contradiction between them, even between first class and the other bryan singer films.

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

How do you know it won't span decades? Where does it say that it spans the Cuban Missile Crisis? For all we know those 13 days could simply be a part of the narrative, and near the epilogue things go further.

To be fair I don't know if it starts well before the crisis or not. However, the heart of the movie is the Cuban Missile Crisis. The entire trailer is driven by Kennedy's speech and what looks to be part of the climax (or at least one of them) in which Magneto is lifting a Russian sub that was trying to break Kennedy's blockade of Russian ships. That seems like it is all set in 1962. Plus, Vaughn is really enjoying the '60s elements so I doubt he would want to skip to the '80s when the whole thing is supposed to have a Mad Men/Bondmania vibe going on.

Thank you that's exactly what I've been saying here. Although, the premise does say that this chronicles the end of their alliance. The same premise mentions that the narrative will parallel both the Cuban Missile Crisis AND the Civil Rights Movement (which ended in the late 60s, and of course, retains those Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. analogies). If these encompass the core plot, a 'flash forward' or something similar isn't altogether impossible. It's been confirmed that McAvoy will be crippled and turn bald, it's part of the appeal. And right now, I don't think any one is thinking about sequels. At least I certainly hope they aren't.

I wouldn't count on that. Fox wants more X-movies as they (are supposed) to mean more money. Why end the partnership between Erik and Charles now? Have it strained but friendly so you can do another First Class movie in a few years? Jennifer Lawrence has already said she has signed into her contract the option to do two more movies if they make sequels.

[Llama_Shepherd]

What about Havok? Cyclops' younger brother being about 20 years older than him?

[DoomGuy91]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

What about Havok? Cyclops' younger brother being about 20 years older than him?

Ya i don't get that.

Cyclops was a teenager in that Wolverine film which i think was set in the early 80's, since he was an adult in 2000 (the year X1 was released).

So 1962 is a HUGE gap from the early 80's.

[chaseter]

How about we don't reconcile and we just liquidate?

[Alexei Belyakov]

Originally Posted by chaseter

How about we don't reconcile and we just liquidate?

Listen to me very carefully, my friend. Liquidation will not bring you peace.

[WildcatNC]

You pretty much have to completely disregard the comics for these movies. The more they make the worse it gets.

You pretty much have to enjoy them for what they are or just hate them. A few movies from now we'll have Morph, Puck, Boom-boom, Wolfsbane, Silverfox, and Mr. Sinister as the Uncanny X-Men led by Xavier with bionic legs.

Most people can either deal with Fox or they can't.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

What about Havok? Cyclops' younger brother being about 20 years older than him?

Singer stated they won't be brothers I believe.