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Old 02-12-2011, 02:58 PM   #76
The Cocreator
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They said that havok woun't be ciclops brother but they will make other things more like the comics.
Emma is not the biggest issue, the biggest issue i moira, and she appeared young during last stand, in the 2 mins video scenne and IN THE POST_CREDITS SCENNE.
And seems to have the same age here, that's a big problem, another problem that many didn't talk yet is Sebastian Shaw, he will be the main villain in first class( probably) and he appears on tv in x-2, however the same rule used for Emma can be used here too, on the screen it appears the name Dr. Shaw, so mybe it's a different character

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Old 02-12-2011, 03:04 PM   #77
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Dont worry these people conveniently forget moments like that from X1 because Singer is an uber godsend filmaker and invented comic book films. They also forget the nonce that was Sabertooth in X1. That's why they keep trotting out the same lame excuse that 'we' should not consider X3 or Wolverine as part of the X-men film continuity...oh I wonder why
.
Although Origins has it's faults they did redeem the Sabertooth character for me. I didn't realize we would never see him again after X1 and was disappointed with that.

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Old 02-12-2011, 03:09 PM   #78
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They said that havok wouldn't be cyclops brother but they will make other things more like the comics.
Emma is not the biggest issue, the biggest issue i moira, and she appeared young during last stand, in the 2 mins video scene and IN THE POST_CREDITS SCENE.
And seems to have the same age here, that's a big problem, another problem that many didn't talk yet is Sebastian Shaw, he will be the main villain in first class( probably) and he appears on tv in x-2, however the same rule used for Emma can be used here too, on the screen it appears the name Dr. Shaw, so maybe it's a different character

Some of what you described are small enough to ignore ( the beast cameo in x-2. post credits scene , dr.shaw) . I'll have to watch the two min video with Moira again though. Maybe she aged gracefully , lol.

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Old 02-12-2011, 04:30 PM   #79
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Singer stated they won't be brothers I believe.

My money is that its his Father.

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Old 02-12-2011, 05:25 PM   #80
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They can push the age of Moira to around 50. She looks good for her age, but the actress in real life is over 40 now. However, with the whole X gene thing, they can just say that it makes you live longer. That extends her life, and makes her look young for her age. But that's just a excuse they could use if they wanted... Yeah, the series is winging it as they go so... it doesn't keep continuity as well as it should. But what do you expect from Fox?

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:49 AM   #81
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When does Shaw appear in X2? It's been a long time and I remember Hank in the news, but Shaw too? Even if he did, how would it detract from continuity? The easter-eggs in X2, with that long list that Mystique reads, was meant to hint at an expansive universe anyway.

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Old 02-13-2011, 11:44 AM   #82
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Okay, so Alex isn't even Scott's brother anymore???

Ugh, I knew this movie was going to be a cluster **** when they decided to set it in the 60's, instead of the 80's, when via movie continuity, it should have been set in the first place.

It will probably be a good movie, but both movie and comic continuity is being completely **** on.

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Old 02-13-2011, 11:52 AM   #83
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When does Shaw appear in X2? It's been a long time and I remember Hank in the news, but Shaw too? Even if he did, how would it detract from continuity? The easter-eggs in X2, with that long list that Mystique reads, was meant to hint at an expansive universe anyway.
Shaw appears under the nake of Dr.Shaw talking with Hank on tv

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Old 02-13-2011, 12:41 PM   #84
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Okay, so Alex isn't even Scott's brother anymore???

Ugh, I knew this movie was going to be a cluster **** when they decided to set it in the 60's, instead of the 80's, when via movie continuity, it should have been set in the first place.

It will probably be a good movie, but both movie and comic continuity is being completely **** on.
Comic continuity has been pooped on in every movie so I don't see why you are getting upset over that. Origins was one of the worst offenders of adapting comic continuity and the things done in that movie pale in comparison to Scott and Alex not being related. Look what they did to Deadpool.

As for movie continuity: quality > continuity.

I don't see any signs of trouble from this movie so far like we all did with X3 and Origins so I think this is going to put this franchise back on track.

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Old 02-13-2011, 01:12 PM   #85
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exactly rogue did'nt fly and was basically the jubilee character

wolverine was 6'4

iceman was'nt funny

and much much more

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Old 02-13-2011, 02:42 PM   #86
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My main problem is the rosters themselves. Thats my main continuity problem. I generally think that as long as they hit a high % of the stuff right then you have to understand that some liberties need to be taken with movie. I'm not an anal fanboy about all the comic details. Its why I still liked X1 and X2. Most of the roster were actual X-Men, even if they changed stuff. The major boxes need to be checked though imo.

This FC team is nearly unrecognizable as any incarnation of X-Men. Its like having an Avengers movie with Pym, Vision, and a bunch of secondary characters. Sure they were all in the comic at SOME point, but give me a break.

Its also why I wanted them to reboot it. I knew they had painted themselves in a corner as to what they could do next. Best to just reboot. I'm still hoping they go the "Star Trek" reboot route with FC. They have painted themselves in a corner and they need to get out somehow.

Having said that I really like Vaughn and think the trailer looked great. The style and visual look of it was incredible. It looks like it could be a great movie in and of itself. You can almost tell that even if the movie isn't that great overall, the Charles/Eric storyline and interaction in the movie will be phenomenal. Mccavoy/Fassbender looks pretty awesome in what we've seen so far. I'm excited to see the characters play out and off of each other. I'm glad they put the Sub incident in there for Magneto too.

As bad as X-Men Origins was, the Logan/Victor dynamic and relationship was awesome. Jackman and Shreiber really brought the rivalry to life and did the characters and their relationship justice. It was the only highlight of the movie really.

With Vaughn, FC will definitely be a better movie, but I see a similar highlight with Mccavoy/Fassbender. It will be the best part of the film imo.

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Old 02-13-2011, 02:55 PM   #87
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I think we're overreacting about the roster. The film is meant to be the early stories of Magneto and Xavier, they're the young studs here. Cyclops and his pals would be what? 9 or 10 here according to continuity? Would you have rather seen that?

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Shaw appears under the nake of Dr.Shaw talking with Hank on tv
Ah...okay then. I can't seem to recall it. Would be very interesting to see if the writers were conscious about this - imagine what that debate would be if the two are antagonistic in this film?

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Old 02-13-2011, 03:06 PM   #88
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Uh... I think Cyclops and his pals wouldn't have been born yet...

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Old 02-13-2011, 03:12 PM   #89
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^exactly cyclops would have to be 60 in x men 1 for him to be in this movie

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Old 02-13-2011, 03:21 PM   #90
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I think we're overreacting about the roster. The film is meant to be the early stories of Magneto and Xavier, they're the young studs here. Cyclops and his pals would be what? 9 or 10 here according to continuity? Would you have rather seen that?



Ah...okay then. I can't seem to recall it. Would be very interesting to see if the writers were conscious about this - imagine what that debate would be if the two are antagonistic in this film?
I think we can consider Dr.Saw a different character from Sebastian shaw

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:03 PM   #91
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I think we're overreacting about the roster. The film is meant to be the early stories of Magneto and Xavier, they're the young studs here. Cyclops and his pals would be what? 9 or 10 here according to continuity? Would you have rather seen that?

Which is why I said they have painted themselves in a corner and should have done a reboot. There is no way to fix the roster without a reboot or major retconing. They are even making The Wolverine a "stand alone" movie and word is the Deadpool movie would be the same. It was a perfect time to reboot it with a great Director/Producer team on board, with lessons learned from the previous outings.

I would have rather seen a true Xavier/Magneto origin story where the real first class is recruited as pre-teens or just regular teenagers though yes. I wouldn't mind so much if even a little over HALF of the roster was accurate.

Its all just opinions though. Nothing wrong with liking or not liking things about the movie. It is what it is and everything else about it looks great so far. I just have a hard time seeing it as X-Men:First Class when there are hardly any in it.

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:22 PM   #92
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Altering the timeline is something you all are going to have to get used to from now on, if you want Magneto and Professor Xavier to maintain their World War II comic book origins.

Unless you think the two were good friends and waited forty or fifty years before going their separate ways and forming their respective teams, something is going to have to give.

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:37 PM   #93
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Altering the timeline is something you all are going to have to get used to from now on, if you want Magneto and Professor Xavier to maintain their World War II comic book origins.

Unless you think the two were good friends and waited forty or fifty years before going their separate ways and forming their respective teams, something is going to have to give.
The time period of the X-Men isn't as important as the sequential events to me. I was fine with Jean and Scott being recruited in the 80's. I'm more annoyed at Havok being in the 60's, etc.

If they kept it more sequentially accurate I wouldn't mind. Like I said, at least over 50% accurate to the source material would have been fine. I don't think thats expecting a lot. There are obviously things that will be changed.

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:00 PM   #94
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Havok is the only person I really question. Should Charles and Erik be included? Obviously. Mystique, yes, as she ages slowly. Beast, fine, given that he seems older in The Last Stand (although I'm not sure he should be this old). Banshee, fine, given he has a teenage daughter present in X2 and The Last Stand. Moira, works either way. Given her history with Xavier, I'm fine with her here. Sebastian Shaw? Why not? Emma Frost? Thus far, I prefer this interpretation rather than her terrible Wolverine counterpart. Azazel, yes, given his history with Mystique and that he's Nightcrawler's father. Angel Salvadore... I couldn't care less about her character in any setting.

I agree that the roster is a bit odd, but, as of now (especially with all of this talk about prequels, reboots, and stand alone installments), I'm more interested to see the direction in which they're taking these characters rather than worried about it.

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:15 PM   #95
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Uh... I think Cyclops and his pals wouldn't have been born yet...
Ah... because of the 60s...right, thanks for that

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^exactly cyclops would have to be 60 in x men 1 for him to be in this movie
But I wasn't referring to the fact that the story takes place in the 60s, I was referring to what the premise essentially is - the period when young Charles and Erik become friends and has a fallout (Xavier said he met him when he was 17). Even if you reassess chronology and try to tell the story in the 80s or 90s where teenaged Cyclops exists, you wouldn't have the young Charles and the young Erik. This is X-MEN ORIGINS: PROF X./MAGNETO.

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Which is why I said they have painted themselves in a corner and should have done a reboot. There is no way to fix the roster without a reboot or major retconing. They are even making The Wolverine a "stand alone" movie and word is the Deadpool movie would be the same. It was a perfect time to reboot it with a great Director/Producer team on board, with lessons learned from the previous outings.

I would have rather seen a true Xavier/Magneto origin story where the real first class is recruited as pre-teens or just regular teenagers though yes. I wouldn't mind so much if even a little over HALF of the roster was accurate
It's true that the title is misleading, maybe they want to start off by showing how the school is opened and then introduced the X-Men? Beast, with Kelsey G in the role, did appear older than the rest of the 'first students' bunch. And about a reboot - I am open to that but this doesn't hurt the franchise at all. I'm not a big fan of reboots so close together, and besides then they would have the same issues of "making this different from the old films", that means a good deal of the strong social commentary that's inherent in Singers films would have been inaccessible to the reboot. This one, despite having a very different style, is still the X-Men from the films.

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:35 PM   #96
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Havok is the only person I really question. Should Charles and Erik be included? Obviously. Mystique, yes, as she ages slowly. Beast, fine, given that he seems older in The Last Stand (although I'm not sure he should be this old). Banshee, fine, given he has a teenage daughter present in X2 and The Last Stand. Moira, works either way. Given her history with Xavier, I'm fine with her here. Sebastian Shaw? Why not? Emma Frost? Thus far, I prefer this interpretation rather than her terrible Wolverine counterpart. Azazel, yes, given his history with Mystique and that he's Nightcrawler's father. Angel Salvadore... I couldn't care less about her character in any setting.

I agree that the roster is a bit odd, but, as of now (especially with all of this talk about prequels, reboots, and stand alone installments), I'm more interested to see the direction in which they're taking these characters rather than worried about it.

I'm not as picky as most, thats my only real problem with the movie. I thought the trailer looked awesome.

The roster is the only thing that bothers me so far.

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:35 PM   #97
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I have problem with the Emma Frost character in this X-Men Film Universe as you can see in the January Jones thread but after reading some comments, I think the continuity's going to be fine. Singer once "repaired" the continuity in the Donner Superman Film universe and disregarded Superman III and IV, although unsucessfully, so I think he's doing it here too. Besides, X3 and Origins Wolverine is not even "his" universe, asides that it stars the same actors.

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:54 PM   #98
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^ whatever we saw in Superman III and IV could've easily had been a part of Superman Returns. The only reason he didn't use them was probably because of preference...I'll even go the mile and call it downright favouritism!

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:16 PM   #99
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As to the 1960s setting of X-Men, fans just need to get over one simple factor that even their incessant prattling cannot change:

TIME.

Magneto is a product of The Holocaust. It is 2011, the first X-Men films were made in 2001 with an eye for them being narratively timed at 2005ish (not too distant future). The films were already breaching the border of belief when it came to Magneto's age in the present considering he was a 14-year-oldish boy in the holocaust. In the X-Men films, he would be at the very least 65-years old (and that's being VERY generous as I'm saying he and his parents were rounded up not in '38 and '40 like most Jewish victims during this period, and saying they got them in 1942 and he was ten) and that's not something that is Singer's fault. Singer doesn't control time. But I bet fans would rather Singer screw up and move the Holocaust to the 60s rather than have their precious comic continuity tampered with.

This is just simple math people. If they made a new rebooted X-Men as some have suggested, the issue would be exacerbated as Magneto would have to be (at best again) 80 years old to exist in our present world. We are just literally outgrowing the timeline of the X-Men since their greatest (and one of the greatest) villains sorta has a contemporary shelf life.

So then, hopping back to tell his story then makes the most sense now, doesn't it? But to do that, you have to fudge other details with the previous movies. You can't have Jean and Cyclops because these characters clearly weren't in their 50s or 60s in X-Men 1, 2, and 3. These are not decisions made out of incompetence or fan spite -- not even by Fox. These are decisions made out pure historical fact and logistics.

Fans just need to get over that because ten years from now, it's gonna be even harder to reconcile these differences and creators will have to get VERY creative in reinventing Magneto's history to keep him relevant to present day timelines.

Oh, and to those who say they should've done a 1980s First Class movie, well that could work. Only a few things:

1) You lose the relevance of the Civil Rights MOvement, something that the X-Men comics themselves were born from.
2) You will only exacerbate attention to Magneto and Xavier's ages, as both men would've gone most their lives without having known one another and be well into their 40s.
3) For Jean and the rest to be say 33 in X-Men 1 and 2, it would have to be 1989, making Magneto and Xavier into their 50s already.

You don't think they had these conversations? They did, and setting it in the 60s with a group of new mutants that are really untrackable agewise was the wisest thing to do.

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:19 PM   #100
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It's true that the title is misleading, maybe they want to start off by showing how the school is opened and then introduced the X-Men? Beast, with Kelsey G in the role, did appear older than the rest of the 'first students' bunch. And about a reboot - I am open to that but this doesn't hurt the franchise at all. I'm not a big fan of reboots so close together, and besides then they would have the same issues of "making this different from the old films", that means a good deal of the strong social commentary that's inherent in Singers films would have been inaccessible to the reboot. This one, despite having a very different style, is still the X-Men from the films.

Ideally I would have liked for them to go ahead with The Wolverine and Deadpool solo flicks and then reboot it with the real First Class. I would have been a little while by then.

It is what it is though. I'm never going to like the roster after X3 without a retcon anyway.

I really feel like this is going to be a great movie except for that though.

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