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Old 02-13-2011, 06:23 PM   #101
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Except that Superman III and IV need to be forgotten just like Origins and X3 need to be forgotten.

This is Singer and Vaughn trying to revive the franchise, give them a chance. Wolverine barely made it's budget back domestic. It was a bomb. Without it's foreign take then we wouldn't even be seeing another Jackman movie. They barely scrapped a profit from that flick and Aronofsky is trying to save the franchise as well.

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:24 PM   #102
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Wolverine was so bad, the next Wolverine movie isn't even a sequel .. it's a stand alone film. LOL

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:24 PM   #103
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

dbl

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:24 PM   #104
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Wolverine was so bad, the next Wolverine movie isn't even a sequel .. it's a stand alone film. LOL

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:25 PM   #105
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

I personally don't have problems with the whole Havok and Moira things, but I'm sure they can be easily fixed just by saying that Alex Summers is Alex and Scott's father, and that Moira had a daughter named Moira, it's pretty common to name a child after their respective father or mother, so there you have it.

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:25 PM   #106
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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^ whatever we saw in Superman III and IV could've easily had been a part of Superman Returns. The only reason he didn't use them was probably because of preference...I'll even go the mile and call it downright favouritism!
It's not favouritism, it's just Superman III and IV were just plain bad films. So is X3 and Origins Wolverine.

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:43 PM   #107
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the films are just another "alternate universe," another off shoot of the main, canon universe, 616. It's no different than the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel 2099 Universe. Just new interpretations and versions of familiar characters.

this is how you fans should approach the films

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Old 02-13-2011, 08:54 PM   #108
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Wolverine was so bad, the next Wolverine movie isn't even a sequel .. it's a stand alone film. LOL
Dude....its a sequel. Who ever told you it wasn't was misinformed.

A sequel is a piece of work made after an already existing piece of work as well as taking place after said piece of work chronologically.

A sequel does not need any of the original characters from the original, it can have an all new cast as well as being set in any time period post the original. All that is required of a sequel is that it takes place some time after the original film, while being set in the same universe as the original.

"The Wolverine" fits the definition of a sequel. It is set in Japan, and one of the endings of Wolverine had Logan drinking at a bar in Japan.

HOWEVER

You are right it is stand alone, so people don't have to see X-men origins Wolverine, to understand the film.

It is also a "loose" sequel. So most likely Logan would be the only one of the cast of Wolverine to return.

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Old 02-13-2011, 09:13 PM   #109
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Is there a thread on how YOU would have done the X-Men movies? I'd rather talk about what I would like to see than complain about the current ones.

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Old 02-13-2011, 09:42 PM   #110
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Doesn't matter. on the Internet everyone thinks they're a writer/director/producer and loves to tell you how much more that they do know.

I think this movie is as much a do-over as a prequel. to the original film.

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:08 AM   #111
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

^ as fans and members of the audience, we are entitled to our high-nosed condescension. It's what those who get paid call criticism, and those who don't call *****ing.

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:09 AM   #112
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Oh and, it's not a do-over guys. It's a prequel, a spin-off, another shot at an X-Men movie to make money. Personally, I prefer this approach to what Sony's doing with Spider-Man.

This way, at least the filmmakers are haunted by their mistakes well within the context of the story. Bwahahahha

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I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-14-2011, 04:03 AM   #113
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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the films are just another "alternate universe," another off shoot of the main, canon universe, 616. It's no different than the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel 2099 Universe. Just new interpretations and versions of familiar characters.

this is how you fans should approach the films
Not like we have a choice but perhaps the only way to enjoy them. I just hope they remain as true to the characters as possible.

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:08 AM   #114
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

I don't think ANY film, other than those that are directly retold panel-by-panel, ought to be compared to continuity from comics that have been published for decades in monthly formats. It's unfair to everyone involved. These are adaptations. Adapt!

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-14-2011, 04:48 AM   #115
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Even looking at the films as there own universe the continuity is still f*****. Its a pain to make sense cause of all these prequels trying to fit in with the other films. Shouldve been a full reboot but... just give me a good movie at this point. I think it was a good decision to say The Wolverine will be a one shot and hold no ties. Hopefully First Class doesnt spend much time trying to connect it with past films.

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Old 02-14-2011, 07:29 AM   #116
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Wouldn't hurt if a character from First Class ended up cameoing in Wolverine.

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Old 02-14-2011, 08:48 AM   #117
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Dude....its a sequel. Who ever told you it wasn't was misinformed.

A sequel is a piece of work made after an already existing piece of work as well as taking place after said piece of work chronologically.

A sequel does not need any of the original characters from the original, it can have an all new cast as well as being set in any time period post the original. All that is required of a sequel is that it takes place some time after the original film, while being set in the same universe as the original.

"The Wolverine" fits the definition of a sequel. It is set in Japan, and one of the endings of Wolverine had Logan drinking at a bar in Japan.

HOWEVER

You are right it is stand alone, so people don't have to see X-men origins Wolverine, to understand the film.

It is also a "loose" sequel. So most likely Logan would be the only one of the cast of Wolverine to return.
I would guess that The Wolverine will be the same as TIH was to Hulk. It isn't a direct sequel but it has a few vague connections for the general audience to connect the two. But, I don't think it is a sequel. Aronofsky said that he is disregarding Origins. I think it will retcon some things like TIH did.

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:49 PM   #118
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I would guess that The Wolverine will be the same as TIH was to Hulk. It isn't a direct sequel but it has a few vague connections for the general audience to connect the two. But, I don't think it is a sequel. Aronofsky said that he is disregarding Origins. I think it will retcon some things like TIH did.
It is not the same as TIH was to Hulk. TIH was not made as a sequel, but as a reboot, it was also put into a different continuity. After all the original Hulk film is not part of the new shared marvel universe (Iron Man 1 and 2, TIH, Captian America, Thor).

So far, all the X-men films have been set in the same universe.

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:13 PM   #119
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It is not the same as TIH was to Hulk. TIH was not made as a sequel, but as a reboot, it was also put into a different continuity. After all the original Hulk film is not part of the new shared marvel universe (Iron Man 1 and 2, TIH, Captian America, Thor).

So far, all the X-men films have been set in the same universe.


True, but Daronofsky has leeway to make pretty much whatever movie he wants. He's not beholden to any current continuity. With his track record thats exactly what they should have done too. This is one of the first GREAT decisions I think Fox has made with the franchise in a long time.

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Old 02-15-2011, 02:07 AM   #120
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I personally don't have problems with the whole Havok and Moira things, but I'm sure they can be easily fixed just by saying that Alex Summers is Alex and Scott's father, and that Moira had a daughter named Moira, it's pretty common to name a child after their respective father or mother, so there you have it.
So let me work this one out. In this film Havoc (Alex Summers) is the father of Scott and Alex Summers. The young Alex Summers is also called Havoc and has exactly the same powers as his dad?

Moira in this film has a daughter also called Moira who also knows Xavier as if they've been close friends for years. The original Moira somehow disappears from the film universe without any explanation.

What is the point of all this? Because I'm not getting it.


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Old 02-15-2011, 07:11 AM   #121
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I have been doing some thinking about how to view all the films.First Class
will conflict with X-Men the Last Stand and X-Men Origins:Wolverine by
the following

Having Rose Bryne as Moira MActaggert conflicts with Olivia Williams as Moira
Xavier crippled In the 1960's
Xavier and Magneto have following out In the 1960's
Moira does cause a continuity problem, but then again she was hardly in X3, forgettable, was first name only, and could easily be explained by being Moira's daughter (also named moira) or she could simply age slow and just look damn good. i don't know. Especially since We don't know exactly when the X-men trilogy officially takes place.

There's been no documented proof that Xavier gets crippled in this film... first class takes place from the 1940s to mid/late 1960s. A sequel could easily take place from the 1970s through the first X-men film (even referencing the 1980s when Xavier finds Scott and Jean. (look at the x-men first class films as the star wars prequels) where Xavier gets crippled and Magneto and Xavier become enemies.


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X-Men Origins Wolverine-Ignore all reference to Weapon X1 being deadpool.
Just accept SIlverfox's sister Is not Emma Frost.Pretend the scene of Cyclops and other escaped mutants meeting with Walking Xavier didn't happen.
Deadpool since he breaks the 4th wall should just and probably will be just a good action/comedy film, there's really no need to put continuity thought into it.

Emma was never "frost" so just pass it off as an odd coincidence. Just like a non furry beast in X1s cameo

and as i said before... unless Xavier really does get crippled in FC, then we can assume he gets crippled sometime in the 80s or 90s



Quote:
The Blob couldn't show up In a First Class sequel and It hurts using Gambit In a X-Men sequel
a younger blob could easily show up in a First Class sequel.... and gambit could simply be around cyclops age... we have no idea how old he is in wolverine... and the actor plays a high-schooler on friday night lights.... so for all we know he's the same age, or only a few years older then scott.

As of right now... everything but a few "hiccups" that are pretty passable, are still in continuity.

so to recap... the only "real" issues so far in this film universe is the following...

-Moira in X3
-Emma in Wolverine
-X2's wolverine flashbacks vs Wolverine's
-Wolverines Sabretooth vs X1's (so far we don't have the most likely "feral" explanation given)
-X1's hairless beast cameo

That's it so far....

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:34 AM   #122
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So let me work this one out. In this film Havoc (Alex Summers) is the father of Scott and Alex Summers. The young Alex Summers is also called Havoc and has exactly the same powers as his dad?

Moira in this film has a daughter also called Moira who also knows Xavier as if they've been close friends for years. The original Moira somehow disappears from the film universe without any explanation.

What is the point of all this? Because I'm not getting it.
First of all, I really don't mind the continuity problem or lack thereof, I was just offering an easy off the cuff fix for anyone who had a problem with the Moira and Alex Summers situation, that being said and playing into the whole continuity game (and not ignoring XM:TLS and XMO:W like I casually do)...

Moira can be the Moira's daughter in X3, why? because Moira is not inroduced as an old close friend in the film, she has one scene, or two if you consider her last "Charles" thing in the end a scene, for all we know they barely have seen each other, and even if they were introduced as old friends, they very well could be cause Moira's daughter is well in her 30's.

As for Havok, first of all in X-Men film continuity Azazel and Nightcrawler have the same powers, why can't Alex Summers and one of his sons have the same powers? and for the record his powers are not even the same because he's basically shooting Cyclops's blasts from his chest, his son's powers then are a little different (and again I'm making all of this up, I don't know if there are going to be sons and daughters with the same names, I'm just doing the continuity dance), and the other thing is we don't know if they're going to use callnames anyway, maybe Alex will just be known as Alex, and his son can be called Havok and be the only one named Havok, or maybe his son will use his father's name to honor him or make fun of him. OK, that's my answer.

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:46 AM   #123
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I wonder though... can we expect a canonical Uncanny X-Men? With Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, 'Angel' (Salvadore), and an even younger Ice-Man? Can it be done? Should Storm be in it for the sake of continuity? Should it be Havok and perhaps some other teenager like Forge?
I have a feeling that most the first class kids will probably side with Magneto by the end... leaving beast and banshee with Xavier... Angel Salvadore was part of a new brother hood team in the X-men books, Havok was once a very "grey" character... and if im not mistaken in some x-men interpretations has been a member (or awfully close) to joining the brotherhood. Mystique will obviously side with Magneto... and so far Darwin doesn't seem to be that HUGE of a character.. and doesn't seem to be considered part of the "kids" in the trailer.

i suspect if we get a FC sequel, we will eventually get a X-team consisting of (Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Beast, and possibly Banshee or Havok (either banshee will leave with moira, or havok will sorta go "bad", and Jason stryker (who may leave, or switch teams)) while Magneto get's his Brotherhood with (Mystique, Toad, Angel S, and possibly any of these (Havok, Emma Frost, Blob , Sabretooth, Avalanche (could be very likely since he's yet to be in a film), Jason, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (if they have the rights), Destiny, or Beak)

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:52 AM   #124
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Why would anyone want to connect this film to Wolverine Origins??? I mean really? Even the Wolverine sequel, The Wolverine, is forgetting Wolverine Origins. That is hilarious that everyone involved in the movies realized that Origins was terrible...even Hugh Jackman. So no, please stay as far away from that movie as possible.
I get the vibe they're going to pull an "incredible hulk" with "the wolverine". For those who follow the films and know them very well (us) know it's not a direct sequel at all.... (HULK ended with Banner running off to south america and established history with betty and gen ross, Incredible Hulk opened with Banner in south america and a pre-established history with betty and gen ross. Ignoring the Super Soldier serum, cast change, and the opening credits... it really could have been a sequel)

The Wolverine, i guarantee.... will be the same way. they'd especially have to keeping Hugh in the role, and not retelling his origin.

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:59 AM   #125
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This film is not going to span decades. It spans the Cuban Missile Crisis which lasted thirteen days. That was even the name of a very good movie on the subject (Thirteen Days).

However, other than Beast going cat mode and Emma Frost being in this thereby retconning her 1 minute cameo in Wolverine (as X3 retconned Beast's cameo in X2), I don't see how this contradicts Origins and X3.

I doubt that they'll end the partnership between Charles and Xavier here so as to set up sequels (which if they do take place in the '60s as well, will contradict the prologue of X3) but otherwise it takes place in 1962. Charles can walk and has hair in this film, while he is friends with Magneto? So, what? The earliest appearance in the timeline was when he saves Cyclops and co. at Three Mile Island. That meltdown happened in 1979. So as long as he isn't crippled in the potential franchise, there is no contradiction.

Now if they make sequels and Charles/Erik turn on each other there (likely) that will contradict the opening scene of X3 that took place sometime in the early '80s (I forget when as I haven't watched that POS since theaters). But these are small things. Emma is the only big thing, but that is again an insignificant change as she had nothing but a glorified cameo in Wolverine. Just as Beast had a blink and you missed it cameo as non-blue in X2 and Kitty Pryde was played by a different actress in all three movies (with a grand screen total of probably 8 minutes, 7 of which came from the last movie).

But I won't lose sleep over it, because Wolverine/X3 sucked and if things don't line up, I'm fine with it. I tend to pretend X3 never happened either. Despite Wolverine's lousiness I don't think it hurt the film mythos....other than the memory wiping magic bullet crap and killing Deadpool....Yeah, actually let's just erase Wolverine as well.
Vaughn has said this film starts in 1940s with WW2... and works it's way up into the 60s.. so it already is spanning 20 years in one film (with most taking place in the 60s). So yes... this film covers 20 years... who really knows what year it ends.

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