The Official Fantastic Four Thread - They're kind of all right.

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[GhostPoet]

So, it's far too late for me to jump into the main FF series...and i'm hoping to stick to the classics instead of the Ultimate series. I heard there is a somewhat new series...can't remember the name...(it's not Four...that series was canceled, right?) There's another one that's I don't even think to issue 10 yet.

Anyone know? And if so...how good is it?

[Thingfan]

Originally Posted by imdaly

The thing with THIS death, though, is that I wouldn't have even realized it was supposed to be a death if the issue wasn't advertised as so. It just looks like a cliffhanger where we have to wait until next issue to see how they make it out of the mess.

Agreed. Doesn't anyone else feel the set-up for his "death" was done really poorly? First of all, even as a normal guy Ben Grimm should still be stronger than Johnny Storm, who nevertheless is able to just toss him through the gateway? Second, why did the Torch seem to forget what his powers are? Did he forget that he can burn up to nova strength which if he let it would incinerate virtually all those creatures that were anywhere near him? Did he forget he can shoot flames from his hands (as he did earlier in the same issue) and stop them from a distance? At the very least he could have put up a fire wall to buy more time. And lastly, did he forget he can fly? The majority of those creatures don't look as if they could, and the few that were able to he would be much more able to shoot down.
Anyway, I was just hoping it wouldn't be the Thing that died, but any emotion I could have felt for the Torch was taken away by how illogical the whole thing seemed :huh:

[Anubis]

About the whole Jean Grey not being back thing....she kinda is. She just hasn't bothered to come back to Earth.

[kguillou]

I feel like Jean coming back would almost be comical at this point, let the phoenix saga finally die and give jean a rest.

[Anubis]

Never liked her ass anyway.

[Colossal Spoons]

Damn, just read the issue. I was hoping he'd just get left in the N-Zone and we'd see him fighting as the issue ended, but they stabbed him up good. Man

This is why Franklin having his mutant powers back makes him a Mary Sue cheat code, cuz couldn't he just bring Johnny back?

[The Mast]

Originally Posted by Thingfan

Agreed. Doesn't anyone else feel the set-up for his "death" was done really poorly? First of all, even as a normal guy Ben Grimm should still be stronger than Johnny Storm, who nevertheless is able to just toss him through the gateway? Second, why did the Torch seem to forget what his powers are? Did he forget that he can burn up to nova strength which if he let it would incinerate virtually all those creatures that were anywhere near him? Did he forget he can shoot flames from his hands (as he did earlier in the same issue) and stop them from a distance? At the very least he could have put up a fire wall to buy more time. And lastly, did he forget he can fly? The majority of those creatures don't look as if they could, and the few that were able to he would be much more able to shoot down.
Anyway, I was just hoping it wouldn't be the Thing that died, but any emotion I could have felt for the Torch was taken away by how illogical the whole thing seemed

You do realise that he was up against about a billion-soldier-strong Annihilation Wave, right?

Considering it took the amount of people it did to win The Annihilation War, why do you expect the third most powerful (All things considered) member of the Fantastic Four to be able to win on his own? On top of that, supposing his Nova Flame doesn't wipe all of them out, then what? He can't do it again for a while.

[Varient]

................
I'm thinking that Johnny may be the second to never come back,... (popular character)
I "don't" expect Kurt Wagner to return.

[Tron Bonne]

Spidey looks like a total pedophile there

[runawayboulder]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

Spidey looks like a total pedophile there

[Colossal Spoons]

^Yeah he does haha

[Kurosawa]

The oldest, cheesist sales gimmick in the book. Pretty sad.

[Thingfan]

Originally Posted by The Mast

You do realise that he was up against about a billion-soldier-strong Annihilation Wave, right?

Considering it took the amount of people it did to win The Annihilation War, why do you expect the third most powerful (All things considered) member of the Fantastic Four to be able to win on his own? On top of that, supposing his Nova Flame doesn't wipe all of them out, then what? He can't do it again for a while.

Yeah I do realize how big the Wave is, and was in no way saying he could defeat it. What I'm saying is that he could have put up a much better fight than he did, and at the very least do things to give himself a chance to survive until help could come back for him. Also, all things considered I would not call him third most powerful. If he were to cut loose and not worry about who he killed he could take out a huge majority of the heroes in the Marvel U, assuming it was a fair confrontation meaning neither had the advantage of a sneak attack. The Torch has the power to attack from a distance with deadly force. He is very fast and can fly. The problem is he has to be careful because he doesnt want to seriously injure anyone.

[The Mast]

I never said he wasn't powerful, I said he wasn't the most powerful in the team.

Reed is more dangerous for his mind, and Sue's power is more dangerous.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd say he's the second most powerful, personally. Sue outclasses him, but he's way more versatile than Ben and Reed's power is kind of crappy. His mind is a different matter, but that's not really a power, that's just being smart and learning stuff. Valeria's intelligence, on the other hand, is a power. Her brain has developed way quicker than any normal kid's would.

[Scourge2099]

Originally Posted by Thingfan

Yeah I do realize how big the Wave is, and was in no way saying he could defeat it. What I'm saying is that he could have put up a much better fight than he did, and at the very least do things to give himself a chance to survive until help could come back for him. Also, all things considered I would not call him third most powerful. If he were to cut loose and not worry about who he killed he could take out a huge majority of the heroes in the Marvel U, assuming it was a fair confrontation meaning neither had the advantage of a sneak attack. The Torch has the power to attack from a distance with deadly force. He is very fast and can fly. The problem is he has to be careful because he doesnt want to seriously injure anyone.

Iceman would kill the s*** out of the Human Torch. Iceman would practically be a god if he cut loose. Human Torch couldn't destroy him at all because Bobby would keep on coming back. All he'd have to do is freeze Johnny's lungs and that's the end of the fight. Silver Surfer could just absorb all his flames and let him fall. A bunch of heroes and villains could take out Torch.

[The Mast]

With all due respect, and my memory may be hazy here, but wasn't Iceman's power development just a huge deus ex machina?

Didn't he, all of a sudden and off-panel, develop his powers into almost being an O.L. mutant?

I remember reading it and being a bit perturbed regarding how his jump in powers occured, and I remember a few others having issue with it too.

[Scourge2099]

Iceman's power increase happened after Emma Frost took over his mind and used his powers in ways he never thought of. He became obsessed with trying to duplicate what she did. Finally he managed to do it.

He didn't become omega level out of nowhere. It was a slow process .

[The Mast]

So, if SOMEONE hadn't decided to make Emma Frost possess Bobby and "awaken" the fact that he had seemingly limitless potential, for seemingly minimal reason...we'd have the same old Iceman?

That's called deus ex machina.

They wanted to bump up his power level, so they did. That's how I remember it happening, and I don't remember finding it credible at all.

[mjdiddy1]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

Is that Reed in the bottom panel? I sense a serious disconnect from the family about to happen, but don't worry Torch will be back this time next year to mid summer....i.e. he's not dead! Rule number 4 (ironic) in comicbooks....they never stay dead! I kid...he's dead...for now

[TheCorpulent1]

Why would Johnny's death, of all people's, cause a disconnect between Reed and the family?

[Scourge2099]

Originally Posted by The Mast

So, if SOMEONE hadn't decided to make Emma Frost possess Bobby and "awaken" the fact that he had seemingly limitless potential, for seemingly minimal reason...we'd have the same old Iceman?

That's called deus ex machina.

They wanted to bump up his power level, so they did. That's how I remember it happening, and I don't remember finding it credible at all.

That's not deus ex machina. It would be deus ex machina if they were fighting Onslaught and all of a sudden his omega level powers manifested out of nowhere.

[Scourge2099]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

Why would Johnny's death, of all people's, cause a disconnect between Reed and the family?

It was because Johnny and Reed were secretly lovers.

[TheCorpulent1]

Reed just can't keep it in his pants around the Storm family.