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Old 02-09-2011, 02:01 PM   #76
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

Nah, they know they can't overuse it that blatantly. Even the most passive, carefree, love-everything comic fan would eventually object if you've got major characters dying every month.

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Old 02-09-2011, 02:14 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

So the F3 all look like Fantomex now.

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Old 02-09-2011, 02:24 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

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Nah, they know they can't overuse it that blatantly. Even the most passive, carefree, love-everything comic fan would eventually object if you've got major characters dying every month.
I wouldnt underestimate Marvel's desperation Corp. How many "Death of ___"'s have we seen in the last 5 years alone? When one death works its a signal to marvel that thats what it take for people to read a lower selling book. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of these things before the year ends.

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Old 02-09-2011, 02:41 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

I have a feeling this is not going to go over well.

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Old 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

It seems pretty in-universe fitting that Reed Richards would design uniforms that subtly indicate himself at the top of the hierarchy.

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:23 PM   #81
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

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http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30746

So basically it's becoming another thinly disguised Avengers book? Wonderful.
Wow, that looks...I don't know what that looks like

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Old 02-09-2011, 05:27 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

You know, I wanna say I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that the "Hype" is lukewarm to negative regarding this announcement, but I'm not

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Old 02-09-2011, 05:28 PM   #83
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Exclamation Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

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http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30746

So basically it's becoming another thinly disguised Avengers book? Wonderful.
Y'know, and I may be risking some flames here, but I don't mind this. I mean, that FF stands for FUTURE FOUNDATION isn't a surprise. Solicitations for ASM practically gave away that Spidey was joining the team months ago. And the idea that Franklin, Val, Alex Power and the other kids would start to pitch in more is also nothing out of the ordinary. It's about bloody time Spider-Man was an official member of the Fantastic Four for a time; I mean, Namorita and Luke Cage both were, for heaven's sake. The white costumes are a bit odd, but it isn't like the FF (and Spidey's) costumes have NEVER had black or white as colors. It isn't like Iron Spidey's costume adding yellow. My only concern is that the color scheme actually makes their costumes look like the X-Force suits in UNCANNY X-FORCE, at least on covers.

Honestly, all Hickman has to do is better his pace and threats and this could really work. He is following through on his long term subplots.

Of course, does this change the fact that by March 2012, Marvel won't relaunch it with FANTASTIC FOUR #600? No. But it could work for a year. Lord knows the Four have little else to do in terms of new directions; the best you hope for are interesting short term ones. The only hiccup is if FUTURE FOUNDATION sells SO well that Marvel actually doesn't want to relaunch it as FOUR; in that case, they would merely alter the number to #600 and still have their overpriced anniversary issue.

It is worth mentioning that the remaining Four stormed into Heaven to get Ben back, but have merrily assumed that Annihilus' bugs ate Johnny.

Which is sort of like the X-Men going into hell to free Wolverine but not even trying to get all those aliens they know who can resurrect people (the Shi'ar, the Breakworlders) to revive Nightcrawler or something. Popularity bites.

Spider-Man is also starting to catch up to Wolverine with how many teams he is on at once.

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Oh god...those white costumes...what are they thinking? I'm all for Spidey joining the team but this is a little much...

Oh and Dread looks like we underestimated FF's sales a bit. The numbers came in and it sold roughly 115,000 copies, nearly 60,000 above its usual sales. Looks like another win for marvel marketing...
Indeed. ICv2 noted that FF #587 sold over 115,000 copies; it was not only the best seller of Jan. 2011, but it was the best selling comic PERIOD since X-MEN #1 in July 2010. It did help that some of DC's best sellers (GREEN LANTERN, FLASH, BATMAN) didn't ship last month, either. Given that the PEAK sales that Hickman has had on Fan Four for the past year was 42k for two non-consecutive months, including selling 38k in December, this is an incredible one issue jump. The Four haven't sold anywhere near that well since 2006, when their CW issues were selling over 86k (and JMS was writing it).

The real question will be how well issue #588 sells, and how well FF #1 sells. Will this stunt actually draw in more people, or be a jumping off point? Given how low sales got, I like to think that the Four have a long term audience of at least 35k or so, so hopefully they should see some modest gains for a while. Marvel is bleating about how big this is, although these characters aren't really part of FEAR ITSELF (unless you count Thing, a New Avenger); that could come off as a bit of an oxymoron. But we'll see how it goes.

One downside? Future Foundation is already the name of many real-world agencies. Ah, old men running Marvel who think Google is something a baby says. Never change.

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Old 02-09-2011, 05:40 PM   #84
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

I will give Marvel a TON of credit if they take Spidey off of the avengers and just keep him on FF. But lets be honest that aint happening. If it does, i will personally mail everyone on this board 100 bucks.

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Old 02-09-2011, 05:53 PM   #85
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

Who wants to bet Wolverine is one of the secret members instead of someone that actually you know makes sense?

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Old 02-09-2011, 06:13 PM   #86
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Exclamation Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

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I will give Marvel a TON of credit if they take Spidey off of the avengers and just keep him on FF. But lets be honest that aint happening. If it does, i will personally mail everyone on this board 100 bucks.
That isn't happening. Bendis needs him for AVENGERS & NEW AVENGERS and doesn't like to share. Least of all for a writer he never worked with before. Occasionally he is willing to compromise with Brian Reed or Mark Millar.

After all, if Spidey isn't on his Avengers books, Bendis will have no character who the others can openly mock and disrespect.

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Who wants to bet Wolverine is one of the secret members instead of someone that actually you know makes sense?
Y'know, this reminds me of another piece of evidence into the B.S. in which Wolverine is now as "well liked" in the Marvel Universe within the superhero community as he is in real life. In the old days, and by "old days" I mean even going back maybe a decade, Thing and Wolverine did not get along for a good reason. During the 90's, Wolverine literally carved Thing's face in half and required him to wear an iron mask to "heal" from it for about a year or so of material in the 90's. They even once got into a brawl at a bar or something while Ben still bore his disfigurement. Now? They share hot dogs together at BBQ's and it probably never happened. It maybe isn't quite as bad as Spider-Man seeming to forget that Wolverine is a walking warzone who has killed more people than WWI to buddy up with him all the time, but kind of close.

For the record, that 90's FF story I think took place during the DeFalco/Lim/Frenz era of the title. Johnny Storm was on the run from police after damaging ESU with his "nova flame" move (accidentally, in some sort of act of self defense from Skrulls or something). This was back when Dr. Strange's magical power was weakened and he was doing his SECRET DEFENDERS thing - literally picking superheroes at random and zapping them towards threats. This time he decided on the unofficial New Fantastic Four team to apprehend Johnny. While Spider-Man naturally wanted to bring Johnny in peacefully, Ghost Rider and Wolverine were out for blood, and "Smart Hulk" didn't have too many kid gloves despite being a professor at the time. This led to a fight between them and the original Four (as well as Sharon Ventura, during one of her Ms. Marvel eras). It is worth noting that during this battle, Wolverine continued to be a psycho and didn't care about going full force against the Four (he kept trying to slice the elastic Mr. Fantastic in particular). Thing took offense to him trying to stab Sue and that's about when Logan carved his face in. To his credit, it was a genuine loss of his temper and Logan did seek to immediately apologize, but Ben wasn't hearing it (he socked Wolverine through a wall). Heroes fight all the time, but I don't know. I wouldn't imagine Ben would be too eager to run into Wolverine at Avengers parties afterward.

The irony? I don't think it makes Wolverine a more interesting character at all. What is the use of being one of those "down and dirty, does what it takes" types if all the moral upstanding heroes just shrug and don't get bothered about it? The same Spider-Man who fights Cardiac because he is a lethal vigilante basically plays Foosball with Wolverine. That makes no ****ing sense.

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Old 02-09-2011, 06:41 PM   #87
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

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I will give Marvel a TON of credit if they take Spidey off of the avengers and just keep him on FF. But lets be honest that aint happening. If it does, i will personally mail everyone on this board 100 bucks.
LOL
I'll write marvel,.. have them join the hype,.. then have them do as you want,.. then wait for my money,...

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Old 02-09-2011, 06:50 PM   #88
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

For you know it could be monopoly money...hehehe.

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Old 02-09-2011, 09:29 PM   #89
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

......I like it.

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Old 02-09-2011, 09:49 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

With Steve Epiting drawing it i'm sure it will at least look very purty.

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Old 02-09-2011, 10:03 PM   #91
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

Like I said, aside for the costume designs, this plot angle is nothing that wasn't expected for anyone who was reading Hickman's run thus far, or even someone who had glanced at solicitations these last few months. But that's no bad thing. Brubaker's WINTER SOLDIER arc was a tad predictable in where it was going by the end, but it was still executed well. Out of all teams to join, the Four seem a natural for Spidey. I would prefer it if Marvel had the stones to make it really "unique" and have him take a break from his Bendis Avenger books, but I doubt it. The last time Bendis heard the word "No" from an editor was the last time he asked them if they'd ever told him "No" (or the day he wanted Magneto to become involved in affairs outside the X-Men; the X-editorial office's death grip on their characters from interacting with the rest of Marvel pre-dates the company's slavish reliance on Bendis).

There wasn't a whole lot else for the Four to do, anyway. The fact that Johnny's death won't last forever isn't the point; so long as this direction is handled well in the short term, it's fine. Besides, they could still remain "the Foundation" even after Johnny comes back. After all, both Reed and Ben have been written out of the book for years worth of time in the past.

There is a part of me stunned that the Foundation look so gosh darned HAPPY a mere two issues after Johnny's death, but maybe that mourning issue will be depressing or uplifting enough to explain that. I will be curious to see Epting handle Spider-Man.

If anything, Hickman's biggest challenge is presenting threats for his new expanded team to face that continue to try to capture the attention of any extra readers he may have. Now is NOT the time for another slow paced "exploring a cave" issue.

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Old 02-09-2011, 10:34 PM   #92
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

I think the real test of the fantastic four is evolving beyond the threats of Dr. Doom and Galactus and Silver Surfer. As awesome as those characters are and will always be, the FF need new, ruthless, cool enemies that can etch themselves into the FF mythos. Part of the reason Spiderman, the X-men, Batman and Superman are the most popular comic book franchises is because they all have a very varied rogues gallery that keeps the titular character(s) interesting and busy.

Every FF writer falls into the trap of using Doom and Galactus in their stories and its really time to move beyond them and create new and varied threats. I truly believe that's the first crucial step in saving the FF from obscurity. But, with all that said......Epting draws a mean Doom and Galactus so maybe an appearance or two wouldnt hurt.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:05 PM   #93
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

The dilemma with the Fantastic Four is they have been around so long and their stories and villains are so iconic to comics as well as Marvel that it is easy for every arc to become a "greatest hits" tour. Every writer feels they are brilliant by bringing back the old tropes. And to be fair, I think Hickman has managed to avoid most of them. Sure, villains like Dr. Doom, the Wizard, Mole Man, and Galactus have all appeared, but they haven't buried the story. Annihilus' cred actually increased with the death issue. In many ways the Four are the Rolling Stones of Marvel heroes; innovative for their time, but now so classic that it is hard to really experiment with them long.

Introducing and maintaining new characters is difficult in comics, especially Marvel. Retailers and audiences just don't respond to them, and there is an insistence on the "why should I care" from the audience. I think a stronger path would be to do what Dan Slott is doing on ASM; take those older, forgotten, even obscure villains and make them bigger, bolder, tougher. Then you have the best of both worlds. Rather than keep using the same 8 rogues, dust off one who maybe had 5 appearances and make them bad ass, and your own. After all, it worked for Purple Man and the Hood. Hickman has done that for the Future Foundation; embellishing ties to Alex Power and Artie & Leech, even Dragon Man. Doing so for villains would be key as well.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:08 PM   #94
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

not a fan of the tron f4 suits

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:25 PM   #95
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

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The dilemma with the Fantastic Four is they have been around so long and their stories and villains are so iconic to comics as well as Marvel that it is easy for every arc to become a "greatest hits" tour. Every writer feels they are brilliant by bringing back the old tropes. And to be fair, I think Hickman has managed to avoid most of them. Sure, villains like Dr. Doom, the Wizard, Mole Man, and Galactus have all appeared, but they haven't buried the story. Annihilus' cred actually increased with the death issue. In many ways the Four are the Rolling Stones of Marvel heroes; innovative for their time, but now so classic that it is hard to really experiment with them long.

Introducing and maintaining new characters is difficult in comics, especially Marvel. Retailers and audiences just don't respond to them, and there is an insistence on the "why should I care" from the audience. I think a stronger path would be to do what Dan Slott is doing on ASM; take those older, forgotten, even obscure villains and make them bigger, bolder, tougher. Then you have the best of both worlds. Rather than keep using the same 8 rogues, dust off one who maybe had 5 appearances and make them bad ass, and your own. After all, it worked for Purple Man and the Hood. Hickman has done that for the Future Foundation; embellishing ties to Alex Power and Artie & Leech, even Dragon Man. Doing so for villains would be key as well.
Yeah i feel like its not that hard to make a new threats. You just have to make them incredibly formidable and not pushovers. Like when JMS introduced Morlun in his AMAZING SPIDERMAN. Now THAT is how you introduce a new villain. You've just got to make them scary and badass. Then again, Millar tried to do that when he introduced Doom's Master and that didnt really go over well, but i think that was more of an execution problem than the concept imo.

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Old 02-10-2011, 05:51 AM   #96
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

I'll be picking up this new series. I just hope it does well overall.

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Old 02-10-2011, 07:51 AM   #97
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

I'm keeping an open mind for now. I've enjoyed Hickman's run thus far, and this could be pretty interesting. We all know Johnny will be back by 600 and all, but we all knew Cap would be back sooner than later, and that turned out well. Don't give a crap about Spidey, so I hope some of the other members are someone I'm interested in.

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I think the real test of the fantastic four is evolving beyond the threats of Dr. Doom and Galactus and Silver Surfer. As awesome as those characters are and will always be, the FF need new, ruthless, cool enemies that can etch themselves into the FF mythos. Part of the reason Spiderman, the X-men, Batman and Superman are the most popular comic book franchises is because they all have a very varied rogues gallery that keeps the titular character(s) interesting and busy.
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I think the real test of the fantastic four is evolving beyond the threats of Dr. Doom
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beyond the threats of Dr. Doom
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beyond Doom

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Old 02-10-2011, 10:39 AM   #98
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

Nothing is beyond Doom.

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Old 02-10-2011, 10:47 AM   #99
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

Except the Beyonder. lol

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Old 02-10-2011, 10:54 AM   #100
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Default Re: The Official Fantastic Four Thread - Part 1 Minus 1 = The Official Thantastic Thr

Lies.

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