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Old 05-11-2008, 06:20 PM   #1
Jordacar
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Question Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

Several years ago (my goodness, where does the time go), WB announced that they'd hired Joss Whedon to write and direct the Wonder Woman movie. Many months later, it was announced that Whedon had been taken off the project.

Like many of you, quite possibly all of you, I was ecstatic when I heard that Joss Whedon, one of my favorite creative people alive, would be making WW, and equally crestfallen when I heard that it would not be so. However, I have since heard various conflicting stories about the direction that Whedon was going to take with the material and how many fans felt about it. So I wanted to clear things up.

How would Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman have been? Would it be right? Would it be true to the source material? Or is it better that WB decided he wasn't the right guy after all?

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Old 05-11-2008, 07:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

There's this:

Some plot points from Whedon's Wonder Woman.
http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/joss_whedon



VC: Can you say anything about the plot you had in mind for your version of the film?
JW: Well, I'll tell you one thing that sort of exemplifies my feelings. The idea was always that she's awesome, she's fabulous, she's strong, she's beautiful, she's well-intentioned, she thinks she's a great big hero, and it's Steve Trevor's job to go, "You don't understand human weakness, therefore you are not a hero, and you never will be until you're as helpless as we are. Fight through that, and then I'll be impressed. Until then, I'm just going to give you **** in a romantic-comedy kind of way."
There was talk about what city she was in and stuff, but by the end, she had never actually set foot in America. Wonder Woman isn't Spider-man or Batman. She doesn't have a town, she has a world. That was more interesting to me than a kind of contained, rote superhero franchise. I think ultimately the best way I can describe the kind of movie I was wanting to make—it was a fun adventure, not gritty, or insanely political, or anything like that. There was meat to the idea of, "Well, why aren't you guys better? What's up with that?" Her lack of understanding of how this world has come to this pass.
My favorite thing was the bracelets. I mean, the bracelets are cool, but how do I make that work? In the original comic book, they needed them because they fire guns on Paradise Island. I don't think I'm going there. So, I thought about it for a while, and I realized, "Oh, right, this is how this works." So in my version, she left Paradise Island with Steve, who was a world-relief guy bringing medical supplies to refugees, which is why he was so desperate to get off the island. She goes with him, and the moment she sets foot on land outside of Paradise Island, somebody shoots her in the chest. And it hurts. [Laughs.] She's just so appalled. And obviously, she heals within a few hours. She pulls the bullet out herself, and kind of looks at it like, "What the hell is this?" She heals, but she's appalled and humiliated, and the next time someone shoots at her, she puts her bracelet in the way because she's terrified of getting shot. It's just a reflexive thing. She has these bands that they all wear, just a piece of armor, and she puts it up. And then she gets good at it. By the end, it's kind of her thing, but it's because she got shot one time and didn't think that it was awesome. I think that is probably not the feeling the producers wanted to have. Though honestly, that could have been their favorite thing. I don't know, because when I asked Joel Silver, point blank, "Well, if they don't want what I'm doing, what do they want?" he said, "They don't know."

And other stuff in the "WW How to make a tentpole" thread.

It was an interesting take on the franchise. I'd have liked to have seen it.

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Old 05-11-2008, 07:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

yeah, no. I would've hated his verion alot more. I don't like the whole Steve Trevor crap.

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Old 05-11-2008, 08:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

I don't think we know enough about his plans for the character. I do recall being told that she wouldn't wear anything remotely classic.

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Old 05-11-2008, 08:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

When I first heard news of Whedon tackling WW, I was psyched... but then the years went by and slowly I began to question him. What the hell is taking so long? I mean... I know he wanted to perfect it but even I admit that he was dragging things.

I think he should've made more of an effort to take matters into his own hands and tell the producers how its going to be and why rather than saying 'the producers had no idea what they wanted...' well.... damn... sell them an idea! Make them believe in it and have faith in the project! Don't just stand there and complain that they're not getting it.

Either way, I'm glad he's off. The two writers who wrote the spec script seem to have come up with a kickass flick in probably half the time it took for Whedon. I'm anxious to see what their new script is like.

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Old 05-14-2008, 01:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

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Originally Posted by The Major View Post
JW: My favorite thing was the bracelets. I mean, the bracelets are cool, but how do I make that work? In the original comic book, they needed them because they fire guns on Paradise Island. I don't think I'm going there. So, I thought about it for a while, and I realized, "Oh, right, this is how this works." So in my version, she left Paradise Island with Steve, who was a world-relief guy bringing medical supplies to refugees, which is why he was so desperate to get off the island. She goes with him, and the moment she sets foot on land outside of Paradise Island, somebody shoots her in the chest. And it hurts. [Laughs.] She's just so appalled. And obviously, she heals within a few hours. She pulls the bullet out herself, and kind of looks at it like, "What the hell is this?" She heals, but she's appalled and humiliated, and the next time someone shoots at her, she puts her bracelet in the way because she's terrified of getting shot. It's just a reflexive thing. She has these bands that they all wear, just a piece of armor, and she puts it up. And then she gets good at it. By the end, it's kind of her thing, but it's because she got shot one time and didn't think that it was awesome.
Yeah, that doesn't sound very cool at all. I haven't seen a lot of versions of WW's origin, but I would like her to at least know what bullets do from the beginning.

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Old 05-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

That's actually an interesting concept, imo. I never did think about it, but it would make sense that WW has no idea what guns are once she steps foot outside Paradise Island.

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Old 05-14-2008, 01:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

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That's actually an interesting concept, imo. I never did think about it, but it would make sense that WW has no idea what guns are once she steps foot outside Paradise Island.
Maybe it would look better on film than the way he describes it. Maybe that's why the studio didn't quite buy it.

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Old 05-17-2008, 09:31 PM   #9
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my script would go something like this,...................
Opening credits, taken from the original origin, World War 2, Pilot crashes on Paradise Island, hence the design on WW's uniform?. through the crash pilot, the Amazons learn about the outside world at that particular time.....Pilot leaves or dies due to old age????.......Time moves on to present day, and start of the main movie.

Nuclear/chemical bomb testing close to Paradise Island threatens the Amazon's, Terrorists hijack the bomb, meanwhile US Military through submarine and satellite probes detect an unknown and uncharted Island close to the proposed bomb test site,...they send investigators to check out the Island. .............

Investigators are captured and questioned by Queen "Hyp'", the Amazons realise the threat and send Diana, ( through selection as in the original series) to take care of the threat and preserve Thymiscara's integrity .

Diana's arrival in Patriarchs world is unnerving, she witnesses first hand the depravity and inhumanity in society and questions world authority, through a series of heroic deeds, saving people from a burning building,scenes of her amazing athletic abilities and strength, etc ...obtains Media interest, aswel as Government.

there then follows a Cat and Mouse theme involving US Government and Diana, as she searches for the terrorist and the bomb, enter Steve Trevor and crew, Dr Psycho revealed as the protagonists behind the plot and terrorist, ( through Steve Trevors investigations),.... the two main characters get together ( but no romance develop) as Steve is a true defender of US security and the right to use and develop weapons, Diana being a Humanitarian of sorts argues vermently against Steve's attitude.

Through their opposing opinions the two Hero's manage to find and defeat Dr Psycho and his minions and retrieve the bomb, however Diana attempts to destroy it and is deemed a Threat to US national security, she escapes from their clutches and is seen diving into the sea from a Helicopter, and is lost .......end credits

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Old 05-18-2008, 08:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

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Originally Posted by majorstar View Post
my script would go something like this,...................
Opening credits, taken from the original origin, World War 2, Pilot crashes on Paradise Island, hence the design on WW's uniform?. through the crash pilot, the Amazons learn about the outside world at that particular time.....Pilot leaves or dies due to old age????.......Time moves on to present day, and start of the main movie.

Nuclear/chemical bomb testing close to Paradise Island threatens the Amazon's, Terrorists hijack the bomb, meanwhile US Military through submarine and satellite probes detect an unknown and uncharted Island close to the proposed bomb test site,...they send investigators to check out the Island. .............

Investigators are captured and questioned by Queen "Hyp'", the Amazons realise the threat and send Diana, ( through selection as in the original series) to take care of the threat and preserve Thymiscara's integrity .

Diana's arrival in Patriarchs world is unnerving, she witnesses first hand the depravity and inhumanity in society and questions world authority, through a series of heroic deeds, saving people from a burning building,scenes of her amazing athletic abilities and strength, etc ...obtains Media interest, aswel as Government.

there then follows a Cat and Mouse theme involving US Government and Diana, as she searches for the terrorist and the bomb, enter Steve Trevor and crew, Dr Psycho revealed as the protagonists behind the plot and terrorist, ( through Steve Trevors investigations),.... the two main characters get together ( but no romance develop) as Steve is a true defender of US security and the right to use and develop weapons, Diana being a Humanitarian of sorts argues vermently against Steve's attitude.

Through their opposing opinions the two Hero's manage to find and defeat Dr Psycho and his minions and retrieve the bomb, however Diana attempts to destroy it and is deemed a Threat to US national security, she escapes from their clutches and is seen diving into the sea from a Helicopter, and is lost .......end credits
YOUR NOT JOSSS WHEDON!

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Old 05-18-2008, 01:03 PM   #11
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i never said i was, so what are you crying about?.

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Old 05-18-2008, 02:20 PM   #12
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Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

Why would Dr. Psycho be a terrorist? I mean, I understand tweaking the character from medium to medium to medium, but going from a misogynistic serial killer who's obsessed with Wonder Woman to a terrorist is a bit much.

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Old 05-18-2008, 05:31 PM   #13
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Why wouldn't he be?, any way, I said he was behind them, Characters change in Comic books all the Time, anyway.

Screen writers mess Characters up all the time, in the movies IE since when was the Hulk ten feet tall, (check his size compared to the Human actors in the movie) since when was Catwoman an African American?, since when was the Kingpin, an African American? etc.

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Old 05-18-2008, 05:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

Change isn't always a good thing.

It must make sense then executed correctly.

Black Kingpin = good (necessary)

Black Catwoman = bad (unnecessary)

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Old 05-18-2008, 06:21 PM   #15
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IMO change to any well known and liked character in movies or even Comic books can be detrimental, I didn't like the change that DC made to its character's after "Crisis on infinite Earth's" it ruined Comic books for me fore a long time.

Superman is weaker, Power Girl's origin was all screwed up, Wonder Woman wasn't Diana, she was her Mother, the list goes on, Green Lantern Kyle Rynar????? I even accepted Guy Gardner as the Green Lantern, (I know Kyle has a lot of support for GL, but not from me).

Ma and Pa Kent alive and well,( they were when I last read a Superman Comic) too many changes to list, what brought me back to reading Comic's was the Justice League America and Justice League Europe comic's they were entertaining and humorous, they showed IMO what Hero's would be like in real life, argumentative, making mistakes, egotistical and sexist, they were just people with amazing abilities trying to be hero's and bombing at it.

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Old 08-03-2008, 07:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

Shame things didn't work out with Whedon cause he seemed like a good match for this type of thing.As i recall his pitch for Batman didn't go down well at Warners either.

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Old 08-03-2008, 08:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

He seemed like a good match but he wanted to completely change her and just use the title WW, it would have probably been a good movie but failed as a WW movie.

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Old 08-03-2008, 04:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

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He seemed like a good match but he wanted to completely change her and just use the title WW, it would have probably been a good movie but failed as a WW movie.
Oops. Double post. Sorry.


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Old 08-03-2008, 05:16 PM   #19
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He seemed like a good match but he wanted to completely change her and just use the title WW, it would have probably been a good movie but failed as a WW movie.
I don't see why so many people keep saying he would have completely changed her. I've read every inteview Joss Whedon has done in regards to Wonder Woman since it was announced ( She is my favorite comic character, and Whedon is easily one of my favorite creators ever ) As far as I can tell, his version of Wonder Woman was going to be Princess Diana of the Amazons, who rescues Steve Trevor after crashing onto Paradise Island and taking him back to the outside world. She would have the bracelets, the tiara, the lasso, the only thing he was going to change were the panties, probably to be replaced by a battle skirt. ( Something that any future WW movie will probably do anyways, no matter who makes it ) This would have been a version of WW we know and love, not a top to bottom reinvention like the Halle Berry Catwoman movie. Her villains might not have been Ares or Circe, but they WERE going to be based on Greek Mythology, something the classic WW tv show never bothered to do. And yet because he was going to change her panties she was going to be "completely different".

Recently I've read the comments a few well known creators have said about Joss Whedon's script, and it just reinforces my notion that Warners simply has zero faith in any WW project, and are very willing to let it die.Maybe this recent summit they had has changed their minds, but I doubt it highly.

This is what Mark Millar recently said about it:

Q: Are there any other superhero franchises you’d like to re-cook if you had the time…? Wonder Woman could use a hand…

Actually, no. I think if you’d asked me a few years ago I’d say yeah, but to me I really like working in comics; so many of my friends who work in movies just tell me horror stories. You’ve got to look at Joss Whedon as the perfect example. Joss is one of the best writers on the planet. Brilliant guy, great writer, excellent director, white hot - and they brought him on to Wonder Woman. And they just wasted two years of his life. He didn’t have time to do anything else. He handed in a really good Wonder Woman script that just really got picked apart and ended up just not happening. And you never get those two years back.

And this is what Bruce Timm recently said about it:

Q: Will we ever see a Wonder Woman feature film?

TIMM: She's been a notoriously tough nut to crack in coming up with a movie story for her. Joss Whedon did a version that I actually really liked, but that didn't get the greenlight for whatever reason. There was another script that was fast-tracked for awhile, but has since been put on the back-burner. It's difficult to say

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Old 08-03-2008, 05:41 PM   #20
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She's one of my favorite characters as well second only to Superman, and I've always been in favor of the battle skirt. Other than that, in TWO YEARS Joss himself said he never so much as completed an outline never mind a full script, so I'm not sure what Timm means. And personally I think Millar is overrated so his opinion doesn't hold too much weight with me. Not to mention I'm a HUGE Whedon fan and absolutely love Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Serenity and am eagerly anticipating Dollhouse. So I was disappointed with everything I heard him say when he seemed such a perfect match. I've started my own Wonder Woman script, and have sent it to a few people so far, some hard core WW fans, others novices all seemed to enjoy it so far and I don't find it hard to write at all. When it's done I fully intend to post it on here.

Now here's what mainly turned me off

Some plot points from Whedon's Wonder Woman.
http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/joss_whedon



VC: Can you say anything about the plot you had in mind for your version of the film?
JW:
Well, I'll tell you one thing that sort of exemplifies my feelings. The idea was always that she's awesome, she's fabulous, she's strong, she's beautiful, she's well-intentioned, she thinks she's a great big hero, and it's Steve Trevor's job to go, "You don't understand human weakness, therefore you are not a hero, and you never will be until you're as helpless as we are. Fight through that, and then I'll be impressed. Until then, I'm just going to give you **** in a romantic-comedy kind of way."
There was talk about what city she was in and stuff, but by the end, she had never actually set foot in America. Wonder Woman isn't Spider-man or Batman. She doesn't have a town, she has a world. That was more interesting to me than a kind of contained, rote superhero franchise. I think ultimately the best way I can describe the kind of movie I was wanting to make—it was a fun adventure, not gritty, or insanely political, or anything like that. There was meat to the idea of, "Well, why aren't you guys better? What's up with that?" Her lack of understanding of how this world has come to this pass.
My favorite thing was the bracelets. I mean, the bracelets are cool, but how do I make that work? In the original comic book, they needed them because they fire guns on Paradise Island. I don't think I'm going there. So, I thought about it for a while, and I realized, "Oh, right, this is how this works." So in my version, she left Paradise Island with Steve, who was a world-relief guy bringing medical supplies to refugees, which is why he was so desperate to get off the island. She goes with him, and the moment she sets foot on land outside of Paradise Island, somebody shoots her in the chest. And it hurts. [Laughs.] She's just so appalled. And obviously, she heals within a few hours. She pulls the bullet out herself, and kind of looks at it like, "What the hell is this?" She heals, but she's appalled and humiliated, and the next time someone shoots at her, she puts her bracelet in the way because she's terrified of getting shot. It's just a reflexive thing. She has these bands that they all wear, just a piece of armor, and she puts it up. And then she gets good at it. By the end, it's kind of her thing, but it's because she got shot one time and didn't think that it was awesome. I think that is probably not the feeling the producers wanted to have. Though honestly, that could have been their favorite thing. I don't know, because when I asked Joel Silver, point blank, "Well, if they don't want what I'm doing, what do they want?" he said, "They don't know."

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Old 08-03-2008, 06:09 PM   #21
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She's one of my favorite characters as well second only to Superman, and I've always been in favor of the battle skirt. Other than that, in TWO YEARS Joss himself said he never so much as completed an outline never mind a full script, so I'm not sure what Timm means. And personally I think Millar is overrated so his opinion doesn't hold too much weight with me. Not to mention I'm a HUGE Whedon fan and absolutely love Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Serenity and am eagerly anticipating Dollhouse. So I was disappointed with everything I heard him say when he seemed such a perfect match. I've started my own Wonder Woman script, and have sent it to a few people so far, some hard core WW fans, others novices all seemed to enjoy it so far and I don't find it hard to write at all. When it's done I fully intend to post it on here.
Actually, he DID write a full draft of a Wonder Woman script, which according to his post in on the Whedonesque forums, he turned in to Warners around December of 2005. The suits didn't like it, so they asked him to re-do it top to bottom. But he never did do that second version, just an outine of it, per their request. But there is a complete Joss Whedon WW script, which is probably what Millar and Timm read.


With Wonder Woman, was it an "agree to disagree" sort of situation?
JW: I honestly don't know. I had a vision and they didn't seem to respond to the vision. I asked what it was that they wanted and Joel Silver said "I don't know." At first it was great, like "hey, they're letting me run with it." But then I figured out it was like "Firefly" – they were letting me run with it because they didn't like any of it. There was really no feedback because nobody knew what it was I wasn't giving them. I asked them point blank, because I'm always adaptable and collaborative. It seemed like nothing landed with them at all. It was clear that was happening because they said "Instead of your next draft, just give us an outline." Give us an outline means "we don't want your next draft." An outline never reads well. I needed to do it anyway, because the plot was wonky. So I got the plot in shape, all the themes, all the moments, all the things that I knew would work… but they said "This isn't happening."


I also read the Onion AV article you posted, but none of what he said bothered me at all. I like the notion of Diana finding a new use for the bracelets by happenstance. It never made sense to me that the amazons played Bullets and Bracelets, especially if they don't have technology. And NONE of the other Amazons should have a prayer when it comes to that game anyway, as only Diana has super speed and reflexes. It certainly is no more a change from the comics as what Donner did with Superman or Nolan has done with Batman. At least to me.

Good luck with your Wondy script...but if I were you I WOULDN'T post it online. Don't want people stealing your ideas now.

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Old 08-03-2008, 10:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

Lestat:

Bullets and Bracelets hasn't been an Amazon game since Pre-Crisis IIRC.

In Perez run it was simply another test in the contest to be Wonder Woman. They could use that in a film.

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Old 08-04-2008, 06:26 AM   #23
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Lestat:

Bullets and Bracelets hasn't been an Amazon game since Pre-Crisis IIRC.

In Perez run it was simply another test in the contest to be Wonder Woman. They could use that in a film.
Oh I know, the Perez run is my favorite run of the book. I just highly doubt Whedon ( or anyone ) was going to use the whole convoluted explanation of having Diana Trevor crash on the island in WWII and that's why the Amazons have a gun. I liked it in the comics just fine, I just see it as being overly complicated exposition for a movie. Plus, I kinda like the idea that Dian can be shot, but can heal pretty fast. I mean, she's second only to Superman in strength, but any old Bullet will kill her? I've never liked that really.

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Old 08-04-2008, 07:33 AM   #24
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Actually, he DID write a full draft of a Wonder Woman script, which according to his post in on the Whedonesque forums, he turned in to Warners around December of 2005. The suits didn't like it, so they asked him to re-do it top to bottom. But he never did do that second version, just an outine of it, per their request. But there is a complete Joss Whedon WW script, which is probably what Millar and Timm read.


With Wonder Woman, was it an "agree to disagree" sort of situation?
JW: I honestly don't know. I had a vision and they didn't seem to respond to the vision. I asked what it was that they wanted and Joel Silver said "I don't know." At first it was great, like "hey, they're letting me run with it." But then I figured out it was like "Firefly" – they were letting me run with it because they didn't like any of it. There was really no feedback because nobody knew what it was I wasn't giving them. I asked them point blank, because I'm always adaptable and collaborative. It seemed like nothing landed with them at all. It was clear that was happening because they said "Instead of your next draft, just give us an outline." Give us an outline means "we don't want your next draft." An outline never reads well. I needed to do it anyway, because the plot was wonky. So I got the plot in shape, all the themes, all the moments, all the things that I knew would work… but they said "This isn't happening."


I also read the Onion AV article you posted, but none of what he said bothered me at all. I like the notion of Diana finding a new use for the bracelets by happenstance. It never made sense to me that the amazons played Bullets and Bracelets, especially if they don't have technology. And NONE of the other Amazons should have a prayer when it comes to that game anyway, as only Diana has super speed and reflexes. It certainly is no more a change from the comics as what Donner did with Superman or Nolan has done with Batman. At least to me.

Good luck with your Wondy script...but if I were you I WOULDN'T post it online. Don't want people stealing your ideas now.
I'll just have to get an agent and send it to Silver then

See I DID have a problem with everything he said after the bracelets are my favorite thing. The stuff before that is cool. Yes Diana was granted incredible speed by Hermes, but I feel the Amazons, should have a chance at that, while they're not on Diana's level, I've always seen them as bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter than regular humans. They DO have technology, like the purple ray and so forth. Personally i always hated when writers make them like barbarians who've not advanced in anything the centuries they've been on the island.

We can all agree though that we'd love a great WW movie. Let's hope we can get something that satisfies us all.

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Old 08-04-2008, 07:35 AM   #25
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Default Re: Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman

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Originally Posted by Lestat74 View Post
Oh I know, the Perez run is my favorite run of the book. I just highly doubt Whedon ( or anyone ) was going to use the whole convoluted explanation of having Diana Trevor crash on the island in WWII and that's why the Amazons have a gun. I liked it in the comics just fine, I just see it as being overly complicated exposition for a movie. Plus, I kinda like the idea that Diana can be shot, but can heal pretty fast. I mean, she's second only to Superman in strength, but any old Bullet will kill her? I've never liked that really.
Agreed 1000% the Diana Trevor stuff should not be in a movie.

And, I always hated that as well, I mean she can be punched in the face by Ares, Darkseid, or Superman and survive? But a bullet hurts her, that ALWAYS bothered me.

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