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View Poll Results: Who should compose it?
John Williams 4 23.53%
Howard Shore 2 11.76%
Harry Gregson-Williams 1 5.88%
Hans Zimmer 2 11.76%
James Newton Howard 2 11.76%
other (please state) 6 35.29%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-10-2011, 11:38 AM   #76
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Giacchino has too much on his plate already.

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Old 02-10-2011, 11:43 AM   #77
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

I don't care. Thats who I want.

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Old 02-10-2011, 03:17 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

I'm sure it's going to be Tyler Bates

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Old 02-10-2011, 03:19 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

My bet is Tyler Bates also...and I liked his stuff on the Halloween movies

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:01 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

What about the theme from S:TAS?I think it would work for a movie..

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:16 PM   #81
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

I don't think Snyder is going to change horses now but a collaboration between Tyler Bates and someone like John Murphy might be sweet. Or go with the Sucker Punch team if Sucker Punch turns out good and they got along.

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:01 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Derek_Evans View Post
I just wasn't really impressed with his Batman music. Elfman's didn't really do much for me either, but it was dark and foreboding. Being a musician for half my life, I'm a stickler for music. It has to evoke the character, be strong and make a statement. The Williams theme makes a statement which is why I love it so much. The theme to Beetlejuice is great, Elfman did a fantastic job there. Zimmer's music in Black Hawk Down, Pearl Harbor, Tears of The Sun, and CoD: MW2 were awesome...I guess I like those so much because I'm also former Army and have a soft spot in my heart for great military movies and games! While Elfman knocked it out of the park with Dick Tracy...I LOVE that movie! The music in Sleepy Hollow was also great along with Terminator Salvation, Wolfman and Alice in Wonderland. As much as I hate to say it, Batman has yet to have a score to blow me away. I guess that's why I'm a bigger Superman fan than I am Batman.
Being a musician yourself is why you should love the challenge of a new piece for a new vision.

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:03 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

I just don't think you should mess with a classic. Like Zimmer said...he doesn't plan on rewriting Beethoven's 9th and neither do I

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:10 PM   #84
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Being a musician yourself is why you should love the challenge of a new piece for a new vision.



Well there have been many cases of big name bands/singers taking an existing classic and doing a cover version that is just as good (but not 100% identical) and sometimes better than the original. Why couldn't the overall score be NEW and the main theme be a modern take on the original? Wouldn't that be just as much of a challenge??

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:12 PM   #85
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Stephen K. Hone View Post
Well there have been many cases of big name bands/singers taking an existing classic and doing a cover version that is just as good (but not 100% identical) and sometimes better than the original. Why couldn't the overall score be NEW and the main theme be a modern take on the original? Wouldn't that be just as much of a challenge??
I agree...just don't ruin it. I thought Ottman's score was a good representation of Williams' score

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Old 02-13-2011, 06:53 PM   #86
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Derek_Evans View Post
people today CAN'T think outside the box
you are 100% correct.

there is no chance of anyone making a theme that is anywhere near as good as John William's Superman Theme. You cannot top perfection like Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, ET etc.

So WB should do the right thing and make the main William's theme as the mandatory requirement for any future Superman movie. They might disregard the rest of William's score, but the main theme should stay.

As for Michael Giachino, he is way overrated. His 2009 Star Trek score was ok, but it was nothing special. Cliff Eidelman's score for Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country wipes the floor with anything Giachinno has ever done or ever will do in his entire life.

Cliff Eidelman created a stunning masterpiece of music in 1991 (at the age of 26!!) which ranks up there alongside Jerry Goldsmith's and James Horner's Trek Scores. Its mind boggling how good it is and it is quite astonishing how Eidelman never made another Trek score, he is that good.

If anyone deserves to score a big budget superhero movie, its Cliff Eidelman.

People today have ****** standards.

Don't accept anything less than perfection.

That's why Zimmer himself admits he can't come up with a theme to match William's masterpiece. Zimmer would have to throw his keyboard away and learn to write music if he wanted to compare himself to John Williams.

Hell, even Daft Punk are probably better keyboard players than Hans Zimmer. Zimmer is a keyboard player who was somehow elevated to exalted status without really earning it. Most of his scores are generic and simple. Other composers have been overlooked for far too long.

Anyway, I look forward to the inevitable Tyler Bates score. Having said that though, Tyler Bates did score the Halloween reboots, and was ordered to reuse the Carpenter main theme, so maybe he might be ordered to do the same again.

It depends on whether Zack Snyder actually has the decency and taste to use an iconic theme that cannot be bettered.

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Old 02-13-2011, 07:15 PM   #87
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
you are 100% correct.

there is no chance of anyone making a theme that is anywhere near as good as John William's Superman Theme. You cannot top perfection like Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, ET etc.

So WB should do the right thing and make the main William's theme as the mandatory requirement for any future Superman movie. They might disregard the rest of William's score, but the main theme should stay.

As for Michael Giachino, he is way overrated. His 2009 Star Trek score was ok, but it was nothing special. Cliff Eidelman's score for Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country wipes the floor with anything Giachinno has ever done or ever will do in his entire life.

Cliff Eidelman created a stunning masterpiece of music in 1991 (at the age of 26!!) which ranks up there alongside Jerry Goldsmith's and James Horner's Trek Scores. Its mind boggling how good it is and it is quite astonishing how Eidelman never made another Trek score, he is that good.

If anyone deserves to score a big budget superhero movie, its Cliff Eidelman.

People today have ****** standards.

Don't accept anything less than perfection.

That's why Zimmer himself admits he can't come up with a theme to match William's masterpiece. Zimmer would have to throw his keyboard away and learn to write music if he wanted to compare himself to John Williams.

Hell, even Daft Punk are probably better keyboard players than Hans Zimmer. Zimmer is a keyboard player who was somehow elevated to exalted status without really earning it. Most of his scores are generic and simple. Other composers have been overlooked for far too long.

Anyway, I look forward to the inevitable Tyler Bates score. Having said that though, Tyler Bates did score the Halloween reboots, and was ordered to reuse the Carpenter main theme, so maybe he might be ordered to do the same again.

It depends on whether Zack Snyder actually has the decency and taste to use an iconic theme that cannot be bettered.



Spot on. Star Trek 6 is amazing. I have a CD of Eidelman(sp?) Conducting most of the themes but his has a brooding War of the Worlds quality.

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Old 02-13-2011, 07:17 PM   #88
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Giacchino's Star Trek score was great. Come on now.

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Old 02-13-2011, 07:28 PM   #89
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Well, they're not keepinmg any of the previous actors, and yes when you reboot then it's a new franchise. And again, James Bond seems to be the only exception.

Let's see? James Bond and also Star Trek at the end they used the Alexander Courage theme. Apparently the Halloween reboot is another and in the Roger Moore TV series of the saint they used a little musical/whistle motif from the Saint films starring George Sanders to tie into the original movies. I'm sure there are more, but that is enough to show that you don't always need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I say keep the main theme (updated perhaps) but write a new score.

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Old 02-13-2011, 09:09 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

For those that don't know, many of the Star Trek movies actually have unique scores and themes, but they still weave Courage and Goldsmith's iconic themes into them. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, ST:V The Final Frontier just to name four. However the original iconic themes are a big part of Star Trek's brand equity.

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Old 02-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #91
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
you are 100% correct.

there is no chance of anyone making a theme that is anywhere near as good as John William's Superman Theme. You cannot top perfection like Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, ET etc.

So WB should do the right thing and make the main William's theme as the mandatory requirement for any future Superman movie. They might disregard the rest of William's score, but the main theme should stay.

As for Michael Giachino, he is way overrated. His 2009 Star Trek score was ok, but it was nothing special. Cliff Eidelman's score for Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country wipes the floor with anything Giachinno has ever done or ever will do in his entire life.

Cliff Eidelman created a stunning masterpiece of music in 1991 (at the age of 26!!) which ranks up there alongside Jerry Goldsmith's and James Horner's Trek Scores. Its mind boggling how good it is and it is quite astonishing how Eidelman never made another Trek score, he is that good.

If anyone deserves to score a big budget superhero movie, its Cliff Eidelman.

People today have ****** standards.

Don't accept anything less than perfection.

That's why Zimmer himself admits he can't come up with a theme to match William's masterpiece. Zimmer would have to throw his keyboard away and learn to write music if he wanted to compare himself to John Williams.

Hell, even Daft Punk are probably better keyboard players than Hans Zimmer. Zimmer is a keyboard player who was somehow elevated to exalted status without really earning it. Most of his scores are generic and simple. Other composers have been overlooked for far too long.

Anyway, I look forward to the inevitable Tyler Bates score. Having said that though, Tyler Bates did score the Halloween reboots, and was ordered to reuse the Carpenter main theme, so maybe he might be ordered to do the same again.

It depends on whether Zack Snyder actually has the decency and taste to use an iconic theme that cannot be bettered.
YES! could NOT have said it better myself...you knew exactly what I was thinking. I actually liked Tyler Bates take on the Halloween theme. I was slightly miffed they only used it at the end of H2 though. The Halloween movies are another example of a film franchise being rebooted and the original music being used as well as Bond. So Hollywood has got to be smart and see that it work for those two franchises and it can work for Superman

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Old 02-13-2011, 10:52 PM   #92
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek_Evans View Post
YES! could NOT have said it better myself...you knew exactly what I was thinking. I actually liked Tyler Bates take on the Halloween theme. I was slightly miffed they only used it at the end of H2 though. The Halloween movies are another example of a film franchise being rebooted and the original music being used as well as Bond. So Hollywood has got to be smart and see that it work for those two franchises and it can work for Superman

Speaking as someone who works in Hollywood, 'Smart and Hollywood' don't always go hand in hand imo.

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Old 02-13-2011, 10:59 PM   #93
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

too true Stephen

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Old 02-14-2011, 01:24 AM   #94
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

I've always been a fan of James Horner. In terms of epicness and memorable themes, he is up there with Williams.

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Old 02-14-2011, 03:06 AM   #95
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

If I remember reading this correctly even Zimmer himself said that John Williams is possibly the greatest living composer...

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Old 02-14-2011, 06:42 AM   #96
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Derek_Evans View Post
I just don't think you should mess with a classic. Like Zimmer said...he doesn't plan on rewriting Beethoven's 9th and neither do I
Superman the movie is a classic, Reeve as Superman is too. Stupid Snyder and Cavill trying to give it a new version.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen K. Hone View Post
Why couldn't the overall score be NEW and the main theme be a modern take on the original? Wouldn't that be just as much of a challenge??
Keeping the theme instead of creating a new one "as much of a challenge"? Let's see. Instead of designing an original new dress I'll just copy one and change two details, would that be just as much of a challenge? Absolutely not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
you are 100% correct.

there is no chance of anyone making a theme that is anywhere near as good as John William's Superman Theme. You cannot top perfection like Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, ET etc.
Denying in advance what anyone could do to top Williams's theme is just your personal perception. You can't tell what another composer could or could not do.

That IF they realŮly needed to top the theme, which they don't have to to start with. They just have to create a new theme that fits the new vision better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
So WB should do the right thing and make the main William's theme as the mandatory requirement for any future Superman movie. They might disregard the rest of William's score, but the main theme should stay.
If this is not Donner's franchise they should do the right thing disregarding anything that belongs to that franchise.

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Don't accept anything less than perfection.
We have to, or we wouldn't be watching any superhero movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
That's why Zimmer himself admits he can't come up with a theme to match William's masterpiece. Zimmer would have to throw his keyboard away and learn to write music if he wanted to compare himself to John Williams.
Maybe Zimmer is just afraid of trying. But he can say whatever he wants because he was never asked to do it to start with.

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Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
Hell, even Daft Punk are probably better keyboard players than Hans Zimmer. Zimmer is a keyboard player who was somehow elevated to exalted status without really earning it. Most of his scores are generic and simple. Other composers have been overlooked for far too long.
That probably explains Zimmer's fear to compose a new Superman theme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daywalker2007 View Post
It depends on whether Zack Snyder actually has the decency and taste to use an iconic theme that cannot be bettered.
The decency would be to propose a new franchise and new elements to it instead of going the cheap dead-easy way by copying what we all know is already popular.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen K. Hone View Post
Let's see? James Bond and also Star Trek at the end they used the Alexander Courage theme.
Yeah well, I already talked about the James Bond exception. And if I'm not mistaken the 1979 Star Trek movie created a new theme different from Courage's one and certainly much better and suitable for that movie.

If Jerry Goldsmith had been too afraid of coming up with something new, as Zimmer is, then we wouldn't have had a new theme.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek_Evans View Post
If I remember reading this correctly even Zimmer himself said that John Williams is possibly the greatest living composer...
Well, at least he didn't just copy the TV series Superman theme for STM and declared himself unable to top what's already known and popular.


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Old 02-14-2011, 04:48 PM   #97
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

Why do people keep saying "The Donner franchise"? The man directed one movie and he didn't even create the character of Superman. They need to stop talking like Donner is the end all be all of Superman. It's not his franchise.

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Old 02-14-2011, 07:37 PM   #98
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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Why do people keep saying "The Donner franchise"? The man directed one movie and he didn't even create the character of Superman. They need to stop talking like Donner is the end all be all of Superman. It's not his franchise.
You see, we call the Williams theme "the Williams theme" because he wrote it. That's fact. And well, he also wrote the score for one movie. But hell, he did some solid work.

Same for Donner, say what you want about him, but everything great about the previous franchise was done by him. Fact.

He was the one setting the tone which btw set the bar for the whole genre. He directed most of SII and everything after what he did went downhill.

And yes, he was also the one who decided what kind of music suit this franchise.

He might not be the end all be all of Superman, you might even despise what he did, but the previous franchise - at least what was good about it - came all from him and we should accept that fact.

But he didn't create the character of Superman and what he did with him shouldn't be kept forever. And thus, Superman in a new franchise deserves a new theme.

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Old 02-14-2011, 07:55 PM   #99
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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You see, we call the Williams theme "the Williams theme" because he wrote it. That's fact. And well, he also wrote the score for one movie. But hell, he did some solid work.

Same for Donner, say what you want about him, but everything great about the previous franchise was done by him. Fact.

He was the one setting the tone which btw set the bar for the whole genre. He directed most of SII and everything after what he did went downhill.

And yes, he was also the one who decided what kind of music suit this franchise.

He might not be the end all be all of Superman, you might even despise what he did, but the previous franchise - at least what was good about it - came all from him and we should accept that fact.

But he didn't create the character of Superman and what he did with him shouldn't be kept forever. And thus, Superman in a new franchise deserves a new theme.
basically everything great about the previous franchise was one film...Superman 1. the rest weren't that great. If he set the tone and it was followed the rest of the movies wouldn't have sucked so damn bad

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Old 02-14-2011, 08:44 PM   #100
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Default Re: The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

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I just don't think you should mess with a classic. Like Zimmer said...he doesn't plan on rewriting Beethoven's 9th and neither do I
Making a masters degree at Mozarteum University in Salzburg myself... and stricly from another musician's point of view... Beethoven's 9th wasn't rewritten, and you're right there. But Brahms wrote 4 symphonies too, Mahler wrote also another 9 (and a fragment of a 10th), Shostakovich another 15... and they go well beyond what Beethoven could ever imagine when his 9th symphony was premiered. I don't believe in conformism in music. We've gone in barely three centuries from Bach to the serialism of people like Boulez and the polytonality of Ligeti. Music should never stop at a landmark and should be ready to evolve just 5 minutes after the premiere. Zimmer saying what he said is a bit unfortunate in a way, because Williams' theme as classic as it is is just a landmark that's waiting to be surpassed. If nobody tries, it will never happen. Just like if nobody had written orchestral after Beethoven we would have never had Mahler or Shostakovich's marvelous music... To each his own and I respect that. But I find it would be wasting the talents of a composer to merely do a transcription of Williams. It's like if all symphonies of the last 150 years would've been Beethoven's 9th's theme just with slight variations. Waste of potential, don't you think? In fact I'll add.. you mess more with a classic by doing a variation of it rather than when you do your own thing that is completely new...

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