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Old 03-19-2011, 11:19 PM   #51
Zachhelms
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Default Re: character development and personalities

Don't make Superman so perfect like they did in the original movies. Show him make mistakes and have human traits. He was raised by humans....

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Old 03-20-2011, 12:44 AM   #52
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I like the way Superman was portrayed in Birthright. Not a complete boyscout, but not constantly bringing destruction in his wake.

One perfect example of what I'm talking about is one scene in the Birthright where he tracks down an arms dealer. He shoots at the arms dealer, but catches the bullet right before it hits his face. He doesn't hurt him, but he strong arms him enough just to show that he means business.

I remember reading in another thread that some suggest it would be cool to see a scene where Superman is being weakened by someone else holding a piece of Kryptonite, and then punches the guy, saying that he's happy he doesn't have to worry about killing him.

It would be awesome to see something like that in the new movie.

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Old 03-20-2011, 01:01 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TheWiseGuy487 View Post
One perfect example of what I'm talking about is one scene in the Birthright where he tracks down an arms dealer. He shoots at the arms dealer, but catches the bullet right before it hits his face. He doesn't hurt him, but he strong arms him enough just to show that he means business
That would be eighteen shades of awesome.

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:31 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Zachhelms View Post
Don't make Superman so perfect like they did in the original movies. Show him make mistakes and have human traits. He was raised by humans....
the problem was not due to superman is too perfect in the previous movies. it were the villains and the general public. they got lousy villains and the general public was not been used / got involved.

the funny thing about human being is we wanna see perfection in human being. but when we find one, we will doubt him. we will not believe him because we believe there is no perfection in human being. lol.

so i would like to see the general public is not trusting superman. they doubt him because he is too perfect. he is too nice to be true. they just think he has so ultirior motive.

yes, i want to see the public to be a more 'realistic' public. they may cheer for superman when they see him doing the saving. but some how they just don't trust him. because nothing is perfect.

ya, i very much wanna see how the general public deal with perfection when they see one.

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:50 AM   #55
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Default Re: character development and personalities

I said in another thread is that there arent enough (or even 1 decent) scenes showing Clark being 'human'.

Superman is a disguise,and most people forget that.

He is a creation of Clark Kent,meant to save and inspire people. He's a boyscout and an all perfect, nice guy as Superman,cause thats part of the 'IMAGE'.

The problem that should be avoided is making Clark's REAL personality as perfect and grounded as Superman's IMAGE personality,cause thats where things fail in being able to connect with him.

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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:06 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
I said in another thread is that there arent enough (or even 1 decent) scenes showing Clark being 'human'.

Superman is a disguise,and most people forget that.

He is a creation of Clark Kent,meant to save and inspire people. He's a boyscout and an all perfect, nice guy as Superman,cause thats part of the 'IMAGE'.

The problem that should be avoided is making Clark's REAL personality as perfect and grounded as Superman's IMAGE personality,cause thats where things fail in being able to connect with him.
Completely agree. Clark was there before Superman was even created, yet everyone says Superman is the real person.

And this time, lets not make Clark so dorky.

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Old 03-20-2011, 11:25 AM   #57
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Default Re: character development and personalities

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Originally Posted by TheWiseGuy487 View Post
I like the way Superman was portrayed in Birthright. Not a complete boyscout, but not constantly bringing destruction in his wake.

One perfect example of what I'm talking about is one scene in the Birthright where he tracks down an arms dealer. He shoots at the arms dealer, but catches the bullet right before it hits his face. He doesn't hurt him, but he strong arms him enough just to show that he means business.

I remember reading in another thread that some suggest it would be cool to see a scene where Superman is being weakened by someone else holding a piece of Kryptonite, and then punches the guy, saying that he's happy he doesn't have to worry about killing him.

It would be awesome to see something like that in the new movie.
Would love both of those

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
I said in another thread is that there arent enough (or even 1 decent) scenes showing Clark being 'human'.

Superman is a disguise,and most people forget that.

He is a creation of Clark Kent,meant to save and inspire people. He's a boyscout and an all perfect, nice guy as Superman,cause thats part of the 'IMAGE'.

The problem that should be avoided is making Clark's REAL personality as perfect and grounded as Superman's IMAGE personality,cause thats where things fail in being able to connect with him.
Definitely.

I don't think Superman should be 'perfect' all the time either, but that is the general idea of creating the alter ego, with no mask, who everyone can look up to a trust completely.

But Clark can just be Clark.

I always loved the line in LnC where Lois says the reason she fell out of love with Superman and in love with Clark is because Superman is a fantasy, and Clark is a reality. 'He's got problems, insecurities... hat hair'

The most important thing to me, for the new movie, is that they make Clark Kent/Superman come across as likeable, understandable, and accesible to the audience.

Don't alienate him from the audience by portraying him as someone who doesn't have any human hobbies, lives in an ice castle and is the 'saviour' of the world.

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"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 03-20-2011, 01:47 PM   #58
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Default Re: character development and personalities

Yup.

The real reason why people can't take to Superman is because he is 'the perfect nice guy',in every respect. I mean everyone on this site is probably a good person,but none of us are perfect. We can identify with him being good and doing the right thing,but 99.9% of the time, he has no struggles we have...And the last time I checked, Superman was raised as a human being.

The problem is that Superman is perfect, Clark in most stories is then thrown into the background,with Superman's boyscout behaviour still intact. Clark is a good guy,but he must be presented as human, with emotions,conflicts and struggles. I hope with the Kent's, we see him at his most vulnerable.

We need to establish the man behind the Superman before anything else. Its not easy,but I believe it can be done.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated

Last edited by Rodrigo90; 03-20-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:07 PM   #59
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Default Re: character development and personalities

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Originally Posted by TheWiseGuy487 View Post
I like the way Superman was portrayed in Birthright. Not a complete boyscout, but not constantly bringing destruction in his wake.

I remember reading in another thread that some suggest it would be cool to see a scene where Superman is being weakened by someone else holding a piece of Kryptonite, and then punches the guy, saying that he's happy he doesn't have to worry about killing him.

It would be awesome to see something like that in the new movie.


I have kind of cleaned that up since originally posting that.

Criminal holding Kryptonite taunts the MOS with... "OOOOOH what's Wrong feeling weak are you?

Superman obviously stripped of his powers but still posessing an imposing 'Human' physicality puts him on his ass with one quick unhesitant punch. Then wrly says, "Wow that felt really good! For the first time in my life I didn't have to hold back for fear of killing someone." He then kicks the kryptonite far enough away to regain most of his powers and apprehends the criminal. The audience goes nuts and screams F**K YEAH! lol!

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Old 03-20-2011, 04:55 PM   #60
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Default Re: character development and personalities

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
We need to establish the man behind the Superman before anything else. Its not easy,but I believe it can be done.
Totally.

And it is hard. I don't know why, but it's actually harder to portray a truly good man then a villain or a rebel or a man with a troubled past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen K. Hone View Post
I have kind of cleaned that up since originally posting that.

Criminal holding Kryptonite taunts the MOS with... "OOOOOH what's Wrong feeling weak are you?

Superman obviously stripped of his powers but still posessing an imposing 'Human' physicality puts him on his ass with one quick unhesitant punch. Then wrly says, "Wow that felt really good! For the first time in my life I didn't have to hold back for fear of killing someone." He then kicks the kryptonite far enough away to regain most of his powers and apprehends the criminal. The audience goes nuts and screams F**K YEAH! lol!
A lot of people say they don't want kryptonite in the film, but I think it would work really well this way.

And it'd be good to establish it as something that weakens him, but does not make action impossible. Like in Public enemies, with the Metallo fight.

Of course try and avoid the extreme of being able to pick up an entire land mass of kryptonite and fly it into space... cause that would just be silly

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:59 PM   #61
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Totally.

And it is hard. I don't know why, but it's actually harder to portray a truly good man then a villain or a rebel or a man with a troubled past.
Its a challenge. I think the reason is because nowadays in modern life,the world is mostly seen in shades of gray. Characters in movies,stories,etc reflect how the world is now.

That's always been the problem with Superman. He is a character who see's the world in black and white. He has an old fashioned sense.

But in Birthright,he saw the world, how its perceived nowadays. He saw the shades of gray and accepted that it was there,but made it his mission to brighten it for the better. Thats the Superman we need in this movie. It could be a new inspiring spin to his tale.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated

Last edited by Rodrigo90; 03-20-2011 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:20 PM   #62
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Its a challenge. I think the reason is because nowadays in modern life,the world is mostly seen in shades of gray. Characters in movies,stories,etc reflect how the world is now.

That's always been the problem with Superman. He is a character who see's the world in black and white. He has an old fashioned sense.

But in Birthright,he saw the world, how its perceived nowadays. He saw the shades of gray and accepted that it was there,but made it his mission to brighten it for the better. Thats the Superman we need in this movie. It could be a new inspiring spin to his tale.
It'd just be so nice to have Superman/Clark Kent be a character that people respect and wanna be like. To have kids think he's cool again. Instead of the only characters that are looked up to being questionably immoral. Womanising, violent, self obsessed men with serious issues.

Right now, Superman is something that people like to mock. They laugh at his pants on the outside. They scoff at the fact he is my favourite hero because they can't see anything cool or interesting about him. I keep trying to explain that they have no real idea of the character, having only seen the old films, but they just can't understand. They call him a square, a goody two shoes, cheesy, outdated, unrelatable.

We NEED this movie to change all of that.

I want people to come out of the cinema going 'Bloody hell Superman is COOL!'

I think the re telling of the origin is gonna be a big part in this. If people can see WHY he puts on that suit, and feel like that's what they would do in his situation too, he suddenly becomes much more likeable for a modern audience.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:22 PM   #63
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Default Re: Character development and personalities

Exactly. I agree 100%

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:35 PM   #64
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Basically how they portrayed the characters in TAS
This.

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:34 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Stephen K. Hone View Post
I have kind of cleaned that up since originally posting that.

Criminal holding Kryptonite taunts the MOS with... "OOOOOH what's Wrong feeling weak are you?

Superman obviously stripped of his powers but still posessing an imposing 'Human' physicality puts him on his ass with one quick unhesitant punch. Then wrly says, "Wow that felt really good! For the first time in my life I didn't have to hold back for fear of killing someone." He then kicks the kryptonite far enough away to regain most of his powers and apprehends the criminal. The audience goes nuts and screams F**K YEAH! lol!
'Cept that's not how Green K works.

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Old 03-22-2011, 03:42 PM   #66
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Superman and Clark just need more personality. Take Reeves little swell line. That wasn't Clark playing it up, he really though the word was still in use like it was. Its those little nuances that make the character seem real. But the dork Clark needs to be removed unless its actually him. Clark Kent truely is a dork in the current comics. When he has alone time, he's a dork. When he's with the league chilling out...he's a dork.

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Old 03-22-2011, 05:09 PM   #67
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Yup.

The real reason why people can't take to Superman is because he is 'the perfect nice guy',in every respect. I mean everyone on this site is probably a good person,but none of us are perfect. We can identify with him being good and doing the right thing,but 99.9% of the time, he has no struggles we have...And the last time I checked, Superman was raised as a human being.

The problem is that Superman is perfect, Clark in most stories is then thrown into the background,with Superman's boyscout behaviour still intact. Clark is a good guy,but he must be presented as human, with emotions,conflicts and struggles. I hope with the Kent's, we see him at his most vulnerable.

We need to establish the man behind the Superman before anything else. Its not easy,but I believe it can be done.
This is why I loved Peace on Earth.

It made Clark deal with - and eventually have to accept - that no matter how hard he tried and no matter what he did, he simply would not be able to fix everything, which to me instantly painted him as someone much more human than most people give him credit for.

When people ask me why I'm such a fan of such a perfect, infallible, uninteresting boy scout, I always point them in the direction of Peace on Earth.

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Old 03-22-2011, 06:09 PM   #68
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'Cept that's not how Green K works.

From Wikepedia. Obviously not necessarily the last word in Superman canon, but whatever:

Superman is most vulnerable to green Kryptonite, mineral debris from Krypton transformed into radioactive material by the forces that destroyed the planet. Exposure to green Kryptonite radiation nullifies Superman's powers and immobilizes him with pain and nausea; prolonged exposure will eventually kill him.


Here is more:

In most comics continuity, however, Superman retains his powers to some degree while exposed to green kryptonite,[citation needed] although dramatically weakened and in severe pain. Thus, attacking him with conventional weapons while exposed to kryptonite would be ineffective; only the exposure to kryptonite itself is potentially fatal. His skin also begins to turn green.





Educate me. How does this not fit in with the scenario I described? I basically have him weakened and de-powered to a Human level, but obviously he would progressively get weaker and weaker and ultimately die. I however, have him hit his foe and then kick it a distance that allows him to regain his strength. I didn't say how big a chunk of Kryptonite it was, so it could be golf ball size, as opposed to a massive New Krypton sized piece. I've got the Kryptonite effecting him progressively, not everything at once.


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Old 03-22-2011, 08:11 PM   #69
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Don't make Superman so perfect like they did in the original movies. Show him make mistakes and have human traits. He was raised by humans....
I'm sorry, but posts like these only showcase that much of the time, people who bash the donner films didnt even bother paying attention to them.

His whole reason for turning back time in S1 was VERY human, disobeying his birth father and abusing his power all to save ONE chick he was attached to. not to mention the whole point of Jonathan's death was to show Clark that even Superman dosent have the power to stop certain things.

And then there was Superman II...or have people forgotten how Supes selfishly gave up his powers just to be with Lois, almost dooming the entire planet when he wasnt around to stop Zod?

Even the crappy Superman III had a drunkard, evil Superman in it, even though outside circumstances were the cause of his behavior

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:22 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
I said in another thread is that there arent enough (or even 1 decent) scenes showing Clark being 'human'.

Superman is a disguise,and most people forget that.

He is a creation of Clark Kent,meant to save and inspire people. He's a boyscout and an all perfect, nice guy as Superman,cause thats part of the 'IMAGE'.

The problem that should be avoided is making Clark's REAL personality as perfect and grounded as Superman's IMAGE personality,cause thats where things fail in being able to connect with him.
Clark Kent is the disguise as per Jerry Siegel, who created the character. It's not a Silver Age thing.

Now there is a Private Clark and the Metropolis Clark, but Superman/Kal-El/Private Clark Kent are all the same person, but Metropolis Clark is completely the creation of Superman. Plus eventually, Clark has to die...but Superman will live on.

Walking among men, being fragile, feigning meekness and normalcy...that part is an act. The Superman part is not.

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:44 PM   #71
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Clark Kent is the disguise as per Jerry Siegel, who created the character. It's not a Silver Age thing.

Now there is a Private Clark and the Metropolis Clark, but Superman/Kal-El/Private Clark Kent are all the same person, but Metropolis Clark is completely the creation of Superman. Plus eventually, Clark has to die...but Superman will live on.

Walking among men, being fragile, feigning meekness and normalcy...that part is an act. The Superman part is not.
That is such an outdated way of looking at the character it's not even funny.

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Old 03-22-2011, 09:07 PM   #72
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That is such an outdated way of looking at the character it's not even funny.
It's the way his creator, Jerry Siegel, intended for the character to be. John Byrne did not create Superman or Clark Kent. Jerry Siegel did. They're his characters, not Byrne's.

Sorry, but that's the way it is. You might as well make Peter Parker a high school jock or Ben Grimm a rich high society kid or Scott Summers a frat boy if you want to make Clark Kent the real person and Superman the disguise.

Plus, it is hardly a coincidence that since they abandoned Superman as his creator intended him to be, the characters popularity and relevance has fallen to near zero. Superman as Jerry Siegel created him to be was a cultural icon for almost 50 years. The Byrne revision was a total failure and Superman is now barely the #3 character at his own company.

What you call outdated is what brilliant writers like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Jules Feiffer would call timeless.

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Old 03-22-2011, 09:12 PM   #73
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If I hear the words "Superman is a disguise, Clark is real" as Snyder's approach to the character, a big chunk of my interest in this flick will go down the drain.

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Old 03-22-2011, 09:23 PM   #74
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Same here. That's the first sign to me that someone doesn't understand Superman to be honest. Things like the power level, Supergirl, Superboy, etc, are much more negotiable since they haven't been part of the deal since the beginning.

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Old 03-22-2011, 09:41 PM   #75
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Honestly, I think that both "Superman" and "Clark Kent: The Reporter" are just two halves of the same person that Clark has had to modify somewhat when it comes towards presenting them to everyone else.

I think that Clark on the farm is more closer to who he really is because that's where he was raised and where he was allowed to really be normal.

Superman, is a larger than life character that was created as a result of Clark's ideals and based off of his own heroism and courage, but even that person imho was modified in order to present this larger than life character that no one would expect to have a secret life as a regular person on earth.

The reporter persona is basically him having to tone himself down, where I wouldn't say that he needs to act like a dork and bumbling idiot like how Reeve did it, but someone who's more reserved and mild mannered in the sense.

At least, that's my take on it. And honestly, for a character like Superman to survive and be relevant in today's society, you can't keep portraying him in the way that he was originally presented as 70 years ago.

He can't be perfect and he's gotta have struggles, realistic ones. I believe that Superman does represent the best on what humanity can be, but in the same time, he's probably one of the most of loneliest beings on the planet and he has to make sure that he never lets his temper and emotions get the best of him since it would lead to disastrous results, which is something that a lot of us have experienced in our own ways as well.

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