The Bush Thread II

[Prison Mike]

Right now I'm in chapter 2 of Decision Points. I don't care if he did steal quotes or whatever from other people, it's still an entertaining book.

[LOBO3315a]

Yeah, I never understood that dichotomous portrayal of G.W Bush. The same people who say he masterminded a war built on fake evidence, are also the ones that say he is the stupidest President we have ever had.

Which is it? Evil mastermind, or colossal screw up? You can't be both.....

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by LOBO3315a

Yeah, I never understood that dichotomous portrayal of G.W Bush. The same people who say he masterminded a war built on fake evidence, are also the ones that say he is the stupidest President we have ever had.

Which is it? Evil mastermind, or colossal screw up? You can't be both.....

I don't think there he was an "evil mastermind" as far as the war, nor do I think he was the only one making the decisions, I think he listened to bad intel, and bad advice in that respect.

As far as the dumbest President, I don't know the IQs of all the Presidents so I don't have any idea, but you don't get to that level in life being stupid.

If gaffes constitute stupidity, then Biden has that one all wrapped up on his mantle...

[Matt Mortem]

Originally Posted by Kel

I don't think there he was an "evil mastermind" as far as the war, nor do I think he was the only one making the decisions, I think he listened to bad intel, and bad advice in that respect.

As far as the dumbest President, I don't know the IQs of all the Presidents so I don't have any idea, but you don't get to that level in life being stupid.

If gaffes constitute stupidity, then Biden has that one all wrapped up on his mantle...

Thats where I stand on Bush and the War. I don't think it was some crazy evil scheme. I think it was a colossal **** up

[LOBO3315a]

Originally Posted by Matt Mortem

Thats where I stand on Bush and the War. I don't think it was some crazy evil scheme. I think it was a colossal **** up

Some people would rather believe a conspiracy, than the truth.

[Matt Mortem]

I don't view the Bush administration as like Batman villains plotting and scheming. I see them as grabbing at intel that wasn't really solid and running with it. And when you run in someplace blind, you're gonna trip and fall.

[Marx]

I think W Bush was so desperate to finish his father's war that he wanted any evidence - no matter how flimsy or inaccurate - to justify an invasion.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Matt Mortem

Thats where I stand on Bush and the War. I don't think it was some crazy evil scheme. I think it was a colossal **** up

I agree.

I also think that the **** up was caused by greed. Greed and Laziness, which made people ignorant and arrogant... which in turn leads to stupid.

[Matt Mortem]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I agree.

I also think that the **** up was caused by greed. Greed and Laziness, which made people ignorant and arrogant... which in turn leads to stupid.

That sums up the whole war.

[Oddzball]

Originally Posted by Kel

IMO, bad intel does not equal manufactured intel....at this point I have not seen enough evidence to know which it was....until I do, I will just call it a "major **** up"...

The allegations were that Saddam had underground facilities cranking out this stuff for years.

The simple facts were that the US had control over Iraq's airspace since the middle of 1991. We had intel gathering aircraft and sattelites viewing things with state of the art equipment. It is damn hard for a ten year old factory to stay hidden from new tech it never had reason to masque itself from when being built.

It is pretty impossible to keep high volumes of shipped materials going to these secret places while under continuous view for years at a time.

If the Intel community didn't suspect they should have. So it's a choice between our best and brightest spy people all being incompetent or they bowed to adminstration pressure to cook the books.

[LOBO3315a]

Every Administration has done that. Heck, If you go back to before Nixon, you'll find that every administration had an agenda. I'm sure even Kennedy's did.

I know I'm not supposed to talk badly about America's most beloved assasinated President, but I'm sure that when he made the promise to the American People that they would land a man on the moon by the end of that decade, NASA 'coocked the books' to make it happen.

Sometimes that can be a good thing, in the case of G.W., it wasn't.

[DACrowe]

Every president has the ability to push through what they want in terms of government departments and foreign policy, where Congress's rule has become more and more ceremonial. But that doesn't mean they should. For example: Iraq. And that was his point, I believe.

[echostation]

Can someone get this Yinqiaol spamming bastard wanker off this board?? what the hell is this about Cartier Gold watches

[TheVileOne]

Congress voted for the war too so you can't just blame Bush.

The media undermined the effort as well.

It was convenient for Obama to proudly proclaim he never voted for it when he wasn't even holding a political office at the time.

[DACrowe]

The media backed him to the hilt in 2002 and 2003 for fear of being called "unpatriotic" and "unAmerican." Tim Russert's greatest regret for Meet the Press is how he let Vice President Cheney use it as a mouthpiece for the WH's propaganda machine to invade Iraq.

There was a backlash in 2005-2007 after the complete and utter mismanagement of the war effort by Rumsfeld that caused the country to collapse into a sectarian civil war. It cost Rumsfeld his job and for Bush to listen to people who actually knew what they were doing (Robert Gates and David Petraeus). At which point, I'll agree the media (and Democrats, including Obama) were reactionary and opposed the sound strategy out of hand. But that came from the misleading and dishonest build-up to war and the tragic mishandling of it up to that point.

Your other two points are fair.

[bell110]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Congress voted for the war too so you can't just blame Bush.

The media undermined the effort as well.

It was convenient for Obama to proudly proclaim he never voted for it when he wasn't even holding a political office at the time.

Damn liberal media.

[TheVileOne]

I don't see how that's any worse than the media becoming Obama's personal propaganda machine.

SNL even commented on it so it's more than just DAMN LIBERAL MEDIA. Hillary even tried to joke about it in a debate.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Congress voted for the war too so you can't just blame Bush.

The media undermined the effort as well.

It was convenient for Obama to proudly proclaim he never voted for it when he wasn't even holding a political office at the time.

In the beginning the media, ESPECIALLY The New York Times, the most liberal of all......pushed the war heavy. It wasn't until Colin Powell started voicing his objections that the media began their war on the war....

[TheVileOne]

I dunno. I sort of felt like they undermine it by putting it under the microscope at every turn and pretty much broadcast everything we are doing before the invasion. Hussein and Iraq had plenty of time to hide weapons.

And if the UN didn't do such a piss poor job of existing the invasion might not have even have happened. Team America sort of pointed pretty well at how ineffective, innoccuous and pointless they are. As well as pointing fairly about the INTELLIGENCE nonsense, but whatever.

New York Times is a rag anyway. They published fake stories by Jaysen Blair. So who knows what else they faked.

[bell110]

Bush undermined himself. The media did their job. It's not their fault Bush is a lying sack of ****.

[TheVileOne]

Obama lies too and more often.

[bell110]

Well, that makes everything okay.

[Marx]

According to the Reuters, former President George W. Bush has cancelled his trip to Switzerland due to the threat of legal prosecution over torture.

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[Calendar Man]

USATODAY.com - Bush approval rating hits new low

Bush is a competetive guy. 9 points lower and he becomes the lowest rated president since Gallup started taking polls in the 1940s. He is only 3 points away from the highest ever disapproval...68%.

This is the end....beautiful friend...the end.