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Old 07-03-2011, 04:27 PM   #101
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Default Re: Burn Notice

Thursday's episode was, IMO, the worst episode in the show's entire run. Maddie + Spy Work = bad fit. In fact, Maddie as a whole has outlived her usefulness. The character was originally meant to be a foil to Michael. He has since made peace with his mother and his past. I think in the mid-season finale when Dylan Baker's character Raines is revealed as the true mastermind behind the organization that burnt Michael, it is time to really raise the stakes by having him kill off Maddie. Aside from freeing up the writers creatively, it will also have the added benefit of setting him apart from Carla, Management, Vaughn, and all of the other members of the conspiracy who are quickly developing a lower success rate than the Foot Clan.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:32 PM   #102
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Default Re: Burn Notice

I thought it was quite intriguing that they're introducing the plot of her being an abused wife..... i get the sense Mike's dad is gonna be revealed as the BIG BAD....

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:34 PM   #103
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Default Re: Burn Notice

It's been common knowledge that Maddie (as well as Michael and Nate) were abused by Michael's long dead father since the first episode. Its the reason that Michael joined the army as soon as he was eligible. To introduce him as a baddie who staged his own death would feel completely contrived and would go beyond just jumping the shark.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:39 PM   #104
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Default Re: Burn Notice

If he's the big baddie, then I'm done with this show. I'm still a fan, the premier rocked, but I've slowly been losing interest in BN for a while.

You're absolutely right about Maddie Matt. Her being involved in missions is just too stupid and unrealistic, even for this show.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:49 PM   #105
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Default Re: Burn Notice

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If he's the big baddie, then I'm done with this show. I'm still a fan, the premier rocked, but I've slowly been losing interest in BN for a while.
I feel the same way. I liked the premier, in no small part due to the fact that they minimized Jessie and Maddie and focused on the core three. Their chemistry is what made this show so special and more than just a MacGyver knock-off. Last season it was downplayed in favor of shoe-horning Jesse into Sam's role, giving Maddie more of a spotlight, and a HORRIBLY misthought love triangle between Michael, Jesse, and Fi. The premiere seemed to be getting back to what it does best. Highlighting Michael, Sam, and Fi. This episode took ten steps back for every one step the premiere took forward.

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You're absolutely right about Maddie Matt. Her being involved in missions is just too stupid and unrealistic, even for this show.
The funny thing is, we've had drug kingpins, Yakuza bosses, and international terrorists all see Maddie's face during these missions and there are NO consequences for that. At some point, someone should be able to find her and put one between her eyes. That is the flaw with having her on these missions. She's not like Sam, Fi, and Michael. She's not a spy or an ex-IRA member. She's a suburban house wife. Forcing her into the missions is lazy writing because the writers do not know what else to do with her (since Michael has come to terms with their relationship). They need to shake things up.


At this point, I feel like I'm watching the show out of habit. Like USA's last flagship show, Monk, the network is scared to let the writers try anything new or interesting so it kind of gets stuck in a state of autopilot where it is just kind of drifting. They really need to shake things up. Killing Maddie off would be a good way to do that.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:53 PM   #106
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Default Re: Burn Notice

I still think the sudden episode focusing on this is a precursor to his dad appearing..... or something....

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:55 PM   #107
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Default Re: Burn Notice

Why? It has been stated for the past 4 years that Michael's father was abusive. Any time he is brought up (which is at least 3 times a season), the fact that he was abusive is also brought up. Eventually they were going to go in depth with it. It doesn't mean that he is going to return from the grave.

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Old 07-03-2011, 05:03 PM   #108
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the point is... why suddenly bring it up again?

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Old 07-03-2011, 05:16 PM   #109
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Default Re: Burn Notice

Like I said, its not sudden. Its been brought up several times each season. It factored into this week's episode because it was a Michael/Maddie-centric episode and that is one of the few fawcets of their relationship that hasn't been covered explictly (to this point its only been used implictly, which works much better, IMO).

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Old 07-03-2011, 09:58 PM   #110
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Default Re: Burn Notice

Plotting so far this and end of last season left something to be desired.

For starters, what happened to Management (John Mahoney)? Who was he and was he apprehended or taken out by the feds?

I mean clearly we aren't getting the whole story and the wool is being put over Michael's eyes but whatever. And what about the other third group that Vaughn's people were going after?

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Old 07-03-2011, 11:29 PM   #111
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Default Re: Burn Notice

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Thursday's episode was, IMO, the worst episode in the show's entire run. Maddie + Spy Work = bad fit. In fact, Maddie as a whole has outlived her usefulness. The character was originally meant to be a foil to Michael. He has since made peace with his mother and his past. I think in the mid-season finale when Dylan Baker's character Raines is revealed as the true mastermind behind the organization that burnt Michael, it is time to really raise the stakes by having him kill off Maddie. Aside from freeing up the writers creatively, it will also have the added benefit of setting him apart from Carla, Management, Vaughn, and all of the other members of the conspiracy who are quickly developing a lower success rate than the Foot Clan.

I like this weeks episode it was very interesting to see exactly the kind of house Michael grew up in. No wonder Maddie is tough as nails now she had to harden herself because of what she went through. Maddie has been getting more involved in the spy thing for years now. This is nothing new besides whether or not she is directly involved the baddies know she is one of Michael weak spots.

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Old 07-04-2011, 12:37 AM   #112
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Default Re: Burn Notice

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I like this weeks episode it was very interesting to see exactly the kind of house Michael grew up in. No wonder Maddie is tough as nails now she had to harden herself because of what she went through. Maddie has been getting more involved in the spy thing for years now. This is nothing new besides whether or not she is directly involved the baddies know she is one of Michael weak spots.
This.

I thought the moments when Michael realized what he'd have to do, and then realized how easily he slipped into the role of his father when Maddie had to call him on it was fantastic.

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Old 07-04-2011, 06:04 AM   #113
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Default Re: Burn Notice

Maddie has interrogated people before or been involved in some cons (like when she had to befriend Tyne Daly (Lacey) and then blackmail her). This latest one is just an extension of that.

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Old 07-04-2011, 12:34 PM   #114
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Default Re: Burn Notice

The main difference here was how far Michael had to go to sell it. Previously it did not require him to physically assault her to sell the story to the target. He had to slap his own mother and treat her worse than he ever had to before and it was clearly a line he did not want to cross.

Maddie I think knows how to keep him in check and that Michael is not his father even though he obviously can emulate him quite well. It still must have hurt them both to relive that period of their lives.

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Old 07-04-2011, 02:07 PM   #115
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Default Re: Burn Notice

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Maddie has interrogated people before or been involved in some cons (like when she had to befriend Tyne Daly (Lacey) and then blackmail her). This latest one is just an extension of that.
There is a HUGE difference between her blackmailing a paper pushing, government clerk and holding a high ranking Yakuza boss at gunpoint.

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Old 07-04-2011, 03:34 PM   #116
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Default Re: Burn Notice

Wasn't there a episode where Michael was holding someone hostage in Maddie's garage and they weren't getting anywhere with the interrogation til Maddie came in?

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Old 07-04-2011, 10:12 PM   #117
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There is a HUGE difference between her blackmailing a paper pushing, government clerk and holding a high ranking Yakuza boss at gunpoint.
But it's all a slippery slope from one thing to another.

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Old 07-04-2011, 10:20 PM   #118
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But it's all a slippery slope from one thing to another.
I agree. Michael has become progressively more wreckless regarding Maddie's safety. A slippery slope of any sort must have consequences if you fall down it. That is why I think that they should kill off Madeline. This show is on autopilot. It needs a shot to the arm and Jesse isn't it (if anything he detracts from the quality). Kill off Madeline and you add a new level of depth and urgency while also allowing the show to focus more on it's best aspects (Sam, Michael, and Fi).

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Old 07-05-2011, 04:02 AM   #119
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Default Re: Burn Notice

They should kill off Jesse. Maddie is one of the things that keeps Michael grounded and gives him his humanity. One of the quirky things about the show was always how Michael was this tough ex-spy but still had to answer to his mother and put up with her. She represented his civilian/ family life away from all of the action that he could come home to, so to speak. Take that away and it just becomes another action show.

It's like Alias: she originally had this double life as a language student and had to stay one step ahead lying to Francie about what she really did. When they killed Francie off and made Sydney purely a spy, it lost that human element and just became another spy show.

The idea of having both the action and the family life is to show how Michael tries to juggle helping people, trying to find the people who burned him and trying to have some semblance of a normal life.

Jesse doesn't fit into any of that and is expendable.

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Old 07-05-2011, 08:32 AM   #120
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Default Re: Burn Notice

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They should kill off Jesse. Maddie is one of the things that keeps Michael grounded and gives him his humanity. One of the quirky things about the show was always how Michael was this tough ex-spy but still had to answer to his mother and put up with her. She represented his civilian/ family life away from all of the action that he could come home to, so to speak. Take that away and it just becomes another action show.

It's like Alias: she originally had this double life as a language student and had to stay one step ahead lying to Francie about what she really did. When they killed Francie off and made Sydney purely a spy, it lost that human element and just became another spy show.

The idea of having both the action and the family life is to show how Michael tries to juggle helping people, trying to find the people who burned him and trying to have some semblance of a normal life.

Jesse doesn't fit into any of that and is expendable.
I agree that Jessie needs to be killed off but so does Maddie. She USED to serve the purpose that you mention. Then she became more and more involved with the missions to the point that she is just part of the crew. She no longer serves the purpose of being a foil to Michael or providing an emotional grounding point (if anything, that has become Fi).

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Old 07-05-2011, 08:48 AM   #121
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I agree that Jessie needs to be killed off but so does Maddie. She USED to serve the purpose that you mention. Then she became more and more involved with the missions to the point that she is just part of the crew. She no longer serves the purpose of being a foil to Michael or providing an emotional grounding point (if anything, that has become Fi).
The thing to do though is to reduce Maddie's role in the missions and get her involved in something else. Make her back to what she was originally. Tyne Daly would've actually been a good friend for her to have on the show. There's no need to kill her off when her character could be just restored by having Michael voice his discomfort in her taking such an active part in the missions. Maybe she could come close to death and this would shock Michael to his senses and exclude her from any future mission, but I don't think she needs to die.

Jesse, on the other hand, can't be reduced to a peripheral role. He just needs to be killed off. He doesn't have much to do anyway and barely featured in any significant way in the last episode apart from bringing in the client and kidnapping the Yakuza (but was helped by Sam and Fi, so they could've done it by themselves anyway).

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Old 07-05-2011, 10:20 AM   #122
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Default Re: Burn Notice

I could see the season finale being having Jessie a lot, much like last season. Then, at the end, Jessie says to Micheal "Hey, I know you think you screwed my life up. But we took down a lot of bad guys, got you back into the CIA, I've got this sweet paying job. Just wanted to say, no hard feel-" BANG, sniper bullet to the heart.

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Old 07-05-2011, 10:24 AM   #123
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and next season would be them hunting his killer....

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Old 07-05-2011, 11:25 AM   #124
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You know, I liked it when Jesse was being kept in the dark, with Michael and co pretending to help him but aware they really were the ones who had burned him. Maybe the writers can find something else which they can deceive Jesse about, so that he's perpetually the guy who gets screwed over. Since he became aware of things he seemed to have outlived his usefulness on the show.

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Old 07-05-2011, 04:01 PM   #125
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Default Re: Burn Notice

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They should kill off Jesse. Maddie is one of the things that keeps Michael grounded and gives him his humanity. One of the quirky things about the show was always how Michael was this tough ex-spy but still had to answer to his mother and put up with her. She represented his civilian/ family life away from all of the action that he could come home to, so to speak. Take that away and it just becomes another action show.

I agree with this. I just can't stand Jesse at all so I'll be happy to see him go.

And on another note... Charisma Carpenter is guest-starring:

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Charisma Carpenter is set to heat up USA Network’s Burn Notice, TVLine has learned exclusively.

The actress will guest-star in this season’s 11th episode as Nicki, a sharp-tongued, high-maintenance trophy wife whose not-so-better half, a bioweapons engineer, is a wanted man in cahoots with the Russians. Increasingly dissatisfied with her marriage, Nicki proves to be a pawn ripe for the manipulating in Michael and Fi’s effort to get to her husband.
http://www.tvline.com/2011/07/burn-n...sma-carpenter/

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