Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

[Cmill216]

Originally Posted by LOBO3315a

Can you cure the common cold, stop brain anyurisms, make the blind see again, and cause the lame to walk? Sounds like you've been drinking the cannibus koolaid, my friend.

I don't use, yet I'm for legalization. What people do in their own homes is their own business, as far as I'm concerned. Just don't try to wrap your desire to be giggly and silly from smoking into some homiopathic Messiah rant.

I'm going to tell you a story...

A while back, I started coming down with a serious case of dehydration. It was a hot summer, and to compound things, I had been incredibly stressed out due to life issues. Needless to say, I felt like hell. Constantly tired, out of it, and thirsty.

So one Monday I decided to go to the doctor. After a brief check-up, I was scheduled for a blood test that Tuesday to determine if I had anemia and/or diabetes. Needless to say, I wasn't feeling very good about it.

So I went in, got the blood test done, and was left to await my fate on Friday. I went back home that day still feeling awful. No energy, a constant thirst. I wanted to crawl into a corner and die.

But then....

One of my old roommates shows up to hang out for the week. And he brings a major stash of weed with him. Now I had been smoking off and on for the past year. I liked weed, and I liked the feeling of weed. But I hadn't really begun to understand weed. So me and my old roommate decided to go ahead and smoke.

But not just that night. We smoked every single day that week. I was literally high from Tuesday night to Friday morning. Straight. We smoked, we made music, I went to class. It was fun.

And in all of this....I completely forgot I was supposed to be sick. I felt FAN-friggin-TASTIC. No dehydration. I had energy. Zip. I felt great.

So I go to the appointment on Friday, and the doctor asks me how I had been feeling. Naturally, I tell him, "More of the same." But, thankfully, I got the results back, and they come back negative. I'm a picture of health.

The doctor tells me it's just stress, and to try to stay out of the sun a bit. I walked home feeling elated. Not just because I was healthy, but it was in that moment I began to fully appreciate the power of marijuana.

Marijuana may in fact be the most effective natural medication in the world, and yet it's usage is still outlawed in this country based solely on fear and traditionalism.

[LOBO3315a]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

You can get buzzed or drunk without ingesting alcohol? How so?

I can still tell jokes, cut up and laugh, and dance like a fool without alcohol and still have a good time. I don't need it to do those things, hence I have the same mental state as when I do.

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

But when the hypocrisy is public policy why not try to change it?

No argument. However, not enough people feel the same way, as was shown in the past elections where the legalization propositions were voted down.

Keep fighting the fight, if you feel that strongly. Just don't expect overnight success.

Originally Posted by Cmill216

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I'm going to tell you a story...

A while back, I started coming down with a serious case of dehydration. It was a hot summer, and to compound things, I had been incredibly stressed out due to life issues. Needless to say, I felt like hell. Constantly tired, out of it, and thirsty.

So one Monday I decided to go to the doctor. After a brief check-up, I was scheduled for a blood test that Tuesday to determine if I had anemia and/or diabetes. Needless to say, I wasn't feeling very good about it.

So I went in, got the blood test done, and was left to await my fate on Friday. I went back home that day still feeling awful. No energy, a constant thirst. I wanted to crawl into a corner and die.

But then....

One of my old roommates shows up to hang out for the week. And he brings a major stash of weed with him. Now I had been smoking off and on for the past year. I liked weed, and I liked the feeling of weed. But I hadn't really begun to understand weed. So me and my old roommate decided to go ahead and smoke.

But not just that night. We smoked every single day that week. I was literally high from Tuesday night to Friday morning. Straight. We smoked, we made music, I went to class. It was fun.

And in all of this....I completely forgot I was supposed to be sick. I felt FAN-friggin-TASTIC. No dehydration. I had energy. Zip. I felt great.

So I go to the appointment on Friday, and the doctor asks me how I had been feeling. Naturally, I tell him, "More of the same." But, thankfully, I got the results back, and they come back negative. I'm a picture of health.

The doctor tells me it's just stress, and to try to stay out of the sun a bit. I walked home feeling elated. Not just because I was healthy, but it was in that moment I began to fully appreciate the power of marijuana.

Marijuana may in fact be the most effective natural medication in the world, and yet it's usage is still outlawed in this country based solely on fear and traditionalism.

Good for you! But you don't think other activities would have de-stressed you as well?

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Marijuana is not physically addictive. Youre not going to get violent shakes from withdrawal if you stop consuming it.

It is psychologically adictive...just like videogames and shopping.

Marijuana doesnt not have to be smoked exclusively either.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by LOBO3315a

I can still tell jokes, cut up and laugh, and dance like a fool without alcohol and still have a good time. I don't need it to do those things, hence I have the same mental state as when I do.

You can act a fool but you'll be painfully aware of the social consequences.

and without your beer goggles you'll be painfully aware that your trying to sleep with a she-beast.

When your sober you notice your immediate problems alot more than when your intoxicated.

No argument. However, not enough people feel the same way, as was shown in the past elections where the legalization propositions were voted down.

Keep fighting the fight, if you feel that strongly. Just don't expect overnight success.

Fair enough.

[Cmill216]

Originally Posted by LOBO3315a

Good for you! But you don't think other activities would have de-stressed you as well?

The physical discomfort preceded the awareness of the cause. Again, I was physically ill, with symptoms that matched an anemic. Yet those symptoms became non-existent after smoking.

[LOBO3315a]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

You can act a fool but you'll be painfully aware of the social consequences.

and without your beer goggles you'll be painfully aware that your trying to sleep with a she-beast.

When your sober you notice your immediate problems alot more than when your intoxicated.

Maybe where that's where I'm different. I'm always aware of my actions, even when I'm very drunk. Probably why I can have just as much fun, being sober. And I really don't care what most people think, so social consequences matter naught to me.

Also, I don't get horny when I'm drunk, so she-beasts are safe from me.

And I know my problems are still there. Thinking that they go away when you drink is the pitfall of alcoholism.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Cmill216

And in all of this....I completely forgot I was supposed to be sick. I felt FAN-friggin-TASTIC. No dehydration. I had energy. Zip. I felt great.

So I go to the appointment on Friday, and the doctor asks me how I had been feeling. Naturally, I tell him, "More of the same." But, thankfully, I got the results back, and they come back negative. I'm a picture of health.

The doctor tells me it's just stress, and to try to stay out of the sun a bit. I walked home feeling elated. Not just because I was healthy, but it was in that moment I began to fully appreciate the power of marijuana.

Marijuana may in fact be the most effective natural medication in the world, and yet it's usage is still outlawed in this country based solely on fear and traditionalism.

That's great that it helped you out(by the way I'm for legalizing it and use to use it constantly), but I find it hard to believe you didn't get dehydrated. Were you drinking a lot of fluids when you were stoned? If not that's sort of abnormal, but like I said before, it's good that it worked out for you in the end.

[Bathead]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

I don't buy the notion that you can't get addicted from marijuana. I think that's a false (and unnecessary) argument.

I know I have felt withdrawals.

True enough. You can pretty much get addicted to anything if you have that kind of personality, but that's more a fuction of an individual's psychology than something inherent in a particular substance, although some things can be chemically addictive. I'm not sure where marijuana fits into that.

[Kelly]

Of course you can get addicted to marijuana....maybe not as a drug, but just the same as people get addicted to food......ANYTHING in excess can be addictive.



All I can say is, I have taken care that that will not happen to my family with at least a portion of my earnings.

The thing that MOST of my money goes into a retirement plan, turns into a insurance policy if I die before using it. So, at least I've taken care of a portion of what I make that I want my family to receive if I die.

[Cmill216]

Originally Posted by Figs

That's great that it helped you out(by the way I'm for legalizing it and use to use it constantly), but I find it hard to believe you didn't get dehydrated. Were you drinking a lot of fluids when you were stoned? If not that's sort of abnormal, but like I said before, it's good that it worked out for you in the end.

Prior to smoking, I was constantly drinking fluids because I felt dehydrated. After smoking, I no longer felt the discomfort of dehydration.

If my condition was indeed stress related, which was causing the feeling of dehydration, then smoking removed the feeling of stress, thus removing the feeling of dehydration.

Whether or not it's all mutual, the fact remains, I ceased feeling any discomfort after smoking. I couldn't go to class the week before because I felt like hell. But I managed to go to class, taking notes, and feeling perfectly fine while under the influence. That may sound crazy to some people, but it's further proof that the stigmas associated with marijuana are quite asinine.

[Kelly]

People forget that Marijuana IS A DRUG, and apparently a good one considering it has been used for 1000s of years as a medicine.

I say, as a start....decriminalize it, and ok it for medicinal use as prescribed by a doctor.

[Cmill216]

Indeed, and more importantly, it is a natural drug. Devoid of all the chemical compounds that make man-made substances so much more harmful.

[Kelly]

I just don't get it......BUT I THINK, if someone got a hold of a campaign to decriminalize it and put forth a good amount of money to educate the population about it, it could happen. And with it, use for medicinal purposes.

[Franklin Richards]

We need to use industrial hemp more. That's for sure. Save a few trees. You can't even smoke that stuff so nothing to worry about there.


Course "Big Paper" won't let that happen.


<There is a "Big Paper" right?>

[Kelly]

See, I call the tree thing bogus. We PLANT trees....as part of most states regulations for forestry, reforestation is a part of that. Just like we grow cows to eat'um. Well some do, I don't....but some do.

[Franklin Richards]

It's just numbers, Kel. One acre of hemp yields way more pulp than an acre of trees. Plus there's the whole "time" thing. Takes a lot longer to grow tree pulp. Weed will pop up overnight.

[Kelly]

Very true...

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Cmill216

Prior to smoking, I was constantly drinking fluids because I felt dehydrated. After smoking, I no longer felt the discomfort of dehydration.

If my condition was indeed stress related, which was causing the feeling of dehydration, then smoking removed the feeling of stress, thus removing the feeling of dehydration.

Whether or not it's all mutual, the fact remains, I ceased feeling any discomfort after smoking. I couldn't go to class the week before because I felt like hell. But I managed to go to class, taking notes, and feeling perfectly fine while under the influence. That may sound crazy to some people, but it's further proof that the stigmas associated with marijuana are quite asinine.

I wasn't disagreeing that it helped you out, I was just surprised that you didn't get cottonmouth.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Kel

People forget that Marijuana IS A DRUG, and apparently a good one considering it has been used for 1000s of years as a medicine.

I say, as a start....decriminalize it, and ok it for medicinal use as prescribed by a doctor.

Why not okay it for receational use too if people enjoy it and it's safer than aclohol?

[StorminNorman]

Originally Posted by Kel

I just don't get it......BUT I THINK, if someone got a hold of a campaign to decriminalize it and put forth a good amount of money to educate the population about it, it could happen. And with it, use for medicinal purposes.

Almost half the population favors legalization already.

I think the campaign of Gary Johnson will help. He has, I believe, the most effective drug policy message out there. He maintains a "Say No To Drugs" approach while at the same time favoring legalization. He also neither smokes nor drinks alcohol and views marijuana as a handicap, not a stimulant.

[Cmill216]

Originally Posted by Figs

I wasn't disagreeing that it helped you out, I was just surprised that you didn't get cottonmouth.

No, I know. It's all good. Some smokers complain about cottonmouth. It's not something that happens to me that often.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Almost half the population favors legalization already.

I think the campaign of Gary Johnson will help. He has, I believe, the most effective drug policy message out there. He maintains a "Say No To Drugs" approach while at the same time favoring legalization. He also neither smokes nor drinks alcohol and views marijuana as a handicap, not a stimulant.

I understand that, but just as with the Gay Rights issue....for some reason....people will poll one way, but when they get into that polling booth, suddenly their mind changes.

I think that decriminalizing it is a good first step, and legalization will come. IMO there is way too many things that need to be taken care of before legalization should happen. Ex....how much is too much, how will it be tested if the person is driving, where will it be allowed, only in the home, certain bars, same as cigarettes, etc....there is MUCH TO TALK about before legalization whereas decriminalizing it can be done quite easily. It is just step one, that's all...

[The BatDude]

Originally Posted by Franklin Richards

We need to use industrial hemp more. That's for sure. Save a few trees. You can't even smoke that stuff so nothing to worry about there. Course "Big Paper" won't let that happen.

It's also big alcohol, tobacco, gas, plastic, lumber mills, textiles, fabrics, paint, coal and countless other companies stand to lose a lot of cash if hemp/cannabis was made legal

[LOBO3315a]

Why wouldn't they just move into that market to make a buck?

[Ghostvirus]

Originally Posted by The Huff

WASHINGTON -- Less than two months after signing a letter calling for the legalization, taxation, and regulation of marijuana, Joe Miller was terminated from his job as a deputy probation officer in Arizona. Miller is just one of a series of law enforcement officials to be fired for their views on drug policy, HuffPost reports.
During California's gubernatorial debates in October, GOP candidate Meg Whitman, when asked about her views on a measure calling for the legalization of recreational marijuana cultivation, said "every single law enforcement official in this entire state is against Proposition 19."
Her remarks were dismissed by former San Jose Chief of Police Joseph McNamara as "absolutely wrong."
What seemed clearer was that active-duty police officers feel unable to speak up in favor of legalizing marijuana for fear of losing their jobs.
Scores of former officials signed a letter this fall saying that marijuana prohibition fuels more dangerous crime by enriching Mexican drug cartels who put guns on U.S. streets:

As police officers, judges, prosecutors, corrections officials and others who have labored to enforce the laws that seek to prohibit cannabis (marijuana) use, and who have witnessed the abysmal failure of this current criminalization approach, we stand together in calling for new laws that will effectively control and tax cannabis. As criminal justice professionals, we have seen with our own eyes that keeping cannabis illegal damages public safety -- for cannabis consumers and non-consumers alike. We've also seen that prohibition sometimes has tragic consequences for the law enforcers charged with putting their lives on the line to enforce it. The only groups that benefit from continuing to keep marijuana illegal are the violent gangs and cartels that control its distribution and reap immense profits from it through the black market.

The vast majority of signatories waited until after they had retired from law enforcement to express that opinion.

Joe Miller, however, did not.
On Nov. 19, 2010, Miller -- who had served as a probation officer for four years, and worked as a police officer for eight years in Needles, Calif., before that -- received notice from his department chief that he was under investigation:

1. On December 16th, 2009 you met with me, Assistant Chief Alan Palomino and your supervisor, Diann Lee. In that meeting I directed you not to use your position or affiliation with the Mohave County Probation Department when publically [sic] expressing your personal opinion unless you included a disclaimer that it was only your personal opinion and not the opinion of the Mohave County Probation Department. You stated you understood and would comply. 2. On or about September 13, 2010 you failed to obey the above-stated directive in that you did not include a disclaimer when you allegedly signed a letter in support of a political issue in California while identifying yourself as a Deputy Probation Officer with Mohave County Probation. The letter was viewed on-line at: "http://copssaylegalize.blogspot.com/2010/09/california-law-enforcers-endorse-prop.html" and a copy is attached. In that letter, you did not indicate you were voicing your own personal opinion and you did not indicate that your opinion was not the opinion of the Mohave County Probation Department.
If the allegations of misconduct are substantiated, they may result in demotion, suspension or dismissal.

Actually, the letter Miller signed on Sept. 13, 2010, did specify that "all agency affiliations are listed for identification purposes only." Nevertheless, on Dec. 10, he was terminated from his job with the Mohave County Probation Department. "He decided that the disclaimer was inadequate," Miller told HuffPost, referring to his boss.
Neill Franklin, national director of the legalization-advocacy group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, wrote a letter to Miller's department chief, Friend Walker, arguing that the firing constituted a violation of Miller's First Amendment rights.
"It is quite clear to me that Mr. Miller's termination is in direct violation of his First Amendment rights to free speech," wrote Franklin. "Being aware of the potential challenges faced by those in law enforcement who choose to exercise their rights to free speech, the sign-on letter was drafted with the agency affiliation disclaimer at the bottom of page six. The disclaimer is used so readers clearly understand that those who endorse the letter are not representing the law enforcement agencies listed and that the agencies are listed for identification purposes only. This well established practice has been used with a wide array of petitions, has withstood legal scrutiny, and has protected the First Amendment rights of Americans across the political spectrum."
Miller says the action is about more than a disclaimer. "It's not like I was doing something that wasn't being done personally at other levels by other police officers," he said of his termination. "So it was obviously politically motivated by those who were contrary to our beliefs."
He's not the only officer to be fired for voicing his views.
In September 2009, border patrol agent Bryan Gonzalez was fired for expressing his opinions on drug legalization to a fellow agent. And in January 2009, Jonathan Wender, one of LEAP's pro-legalization advocates, successfully sued the Mountlake Terrace, Wash., police department after being fired under similar circumstances.
Gonzalez is taking his case to court, joining with the American Civil Liberties Union of New Mexico in filing a lawsuit on First Amendment grounds seeking unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.
Miller said he hopes to file a suit with the Arizona chapter of the ACLU.

So they are totally against Mexicans entering their precious border. But aren't willing to take steps that might preven Mexicans crossing their precious border? Logic Fail.