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View Poll Results: Is it time to legalize pot?
Yes 177 74.37%
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:12 AM   #26
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

That's kind of ridiculous.

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Old 02-09-2011, 10:40 AM   #27
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

It's the same here, police officers are supposed to be apolitical AND IF THEY DO mention anything political they're supposed to add a disclaimer to make sure that the police aren't being tied to a specific political stance.

It's perfectly legitimate, he'd have signed paperwork to have entered the force agreeing to exactly that.

Whether it's a proposition for changing criminal legislation or voicing an issue on the funding for libraries it's irrelevant. They're not to do it.

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Old 02-09-2011, 10:57 AM   #28
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

It's kind of hard to keep a guy at a job when he's supposed to enforce something he has said he doesn't believe in. I really see no problem here. Officers take an oath, he obviously has issues upholding that oath.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:05 AM   #29
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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Originally Posted by Hound55 View Post
It's the same here, police officers are supposed to be apolitical AND IF THEY DO mention anything political they're supposed to add a disclaimer to make sure that the police aren't being tied to a specific political stance.

It's perfectly legitimate, he'd have signed paperwork to have entered the force agreeing to exactly that.

Whether it's a proposition for changing criminal legislation or voicing an issue on the funding for libraries it's irrelevant. They're not to do it.
^ This.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:13 AM   #30
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

I disagree whole heartedly. Saying you don't agree with a law is not the same as breaking that law. You can disagree with a law and still do your job. Having a job in law enforcement, the judicial system, etc does NOT mean you must automatically agree with every single state and federal law. If that were the case, slaves would still be legal, we'd still have prohibition, segregation, etc.

I think its completely and utterly wrong for this guy to be fired for voicing his opinion, which is something the law protects. Being a civil servant does not mean your right to free speech is void. I understand the aspect of needing a disclaimer, but the fact is, the very petition he signed includes one. So there should be no argument. And its not like he was picketing the court house in his uniform.

His view on cannabis does not threaten his ability to preform his job, especially if he's a probation officer. I have a sibling who is a probation officer, and they smoked in their youth and have no problem doing their job, because as an adult working in the judicial system, they realize that the law is the law and while they may disagree with the law, it still must be upheld, regardless of their opinion.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:15 AM   #31
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

As an employee of SAPOL I would be loathe to sign any document that begins "As police officers" and then proceeds to push a political agenda...


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Old 02-09-2011, 11:16 AM   #32
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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^ This.
Never knew that. I mean. . I know that's how YOU are, not giving out unimportant information while on the job. But as for basic opinions, while on the job, never knew you signed paper work or were told to keep quiet.



Makes sense, though.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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I disagree whole heartedly. Saying you don't agree with a law is not the same as breaking that law. You can disagree with a law and still do your job. Having a job in law enforcement, the judicial system, etc does NOT mean you must automatically agree with every single state and federal law. If that were the case, slaves would still be legal, we'd still have prohibition, segregation, etc.

I think its completely and utterly wrong for this guy to be fired for voicing his opinion, which is something the law protects. Being a civil servant does not mean your right to free speech is void. I understand the aspect of needing a disclaimer, but the fact is, the very petition he signed includes one. So there should be no argument. And its not like he was picketing the court house in his uniform.

His view on cannabis does not threaten his ability to preform his job, especially if he's a probation officer. I have a sibling who is a probation officer, and they smoked in their youth and have no problem doing their job, because as an adult working in the judicial system, they realize that the law is the law and while they may disagree with the law, it still must be upheld, regardless of their opinion.
Yes, but look at it from the point of view of his employer. If he signed this document saying he believes marijuana should be legal can you really trust him to report someone who he oversees on probation if he's caught with weed? The answer is, no you can't. And again, almost every job from the lowest McDonald's bathroom cleaner to a CEO sign paper work dealing with voicing opinions from your job position on political issues or anything that could put the company or in this case the department in jeopardy.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:24 AM   #34
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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^ This.
We had Taser training again at the end of last year, couldn't help chuckling a few times in remembrance of that old topic.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:53 AM   #35
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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Yes, but look at it from the point of view of his employer. If he signed this document saying he believes marijuana should be legal can you really trust him to report someone who he oversees on probation if he's caught with weed? The answer is, no you can't.
Then every politician, police man, judge, security guard, hell every fry cook should be fired, since you can't prove that they opinions are 100% slaves to the mentality of their place of employment. This sets a very bad (and quite honestly scary) precedent, and only solidifies that our rights are turning into "privileges" the government can take away and ignore as they see fit.

Quote:
And again, almost every job from the lowest McDonald's bathroom cleaner to a CEO sign paper work dealing with voicing opinions from your job position on political issues or anything that could put the company or in this case the department in jeopardy.
I understand that you have to be careful of what you say, in the event that it can reflect poorly on your place of employment. But this guy was not using his authority and status as a police officer of Mohave County to substantiate his opinion. It was a simple signature on a petition that SAYS the opinions of those named don't reflect their places of employment, which is entirely different that standing in front of a news room wearing his uniform and saying "as a police officer of Mohave County, I and everyone there agree with legalizing marijuana."

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:57 AM   #36
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

The point is, in any job there's no such thing as freedom of speech. It doesn't matter what it is, if you say something your employer disapproves of, they can and will fire you. A dumb analogy perhaps, but if you're working at the Apple store and tell a customer you think Android is better, you're just voicing your opinion right? Fired. Go sell Android phones.

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Old 02-09-2011, 12:05 PM   #37
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

It's not a matter of "because it could reflect poorly on your place of employment".

The very first line in the petition runs contradictory to the disclaimer.

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Old 02-09-2011, 01:07 PM   #38
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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The point is, in any job there's no such thing as freedom of speech.
By that, then seeing how the vast majority of the US is employed, the First Amendment doesn't exist.

Quote:
It doesn't matter what it is, if you say something your employer disapproves of, they can and will fire you. A dumb analogy perhaps, but if you're working at the Apple store and tell a customer you think Android is better, you're just voicing your opinion right? Fired. Go sell Android phones.
If the employer's rights were as far reaching as you suggest (their ability to fire you over a name on a petition you signed off hours at your own home), then every lawyer, cop and civilian on that list would and "should" be fired. No, this is a case of persecution (for lack of a better word) and over stepping one's authority and sidestepping one's right for free speech.

As I said before, if this is how we are to judge the limits to our rights to believe what we want to believe - and the consequences of expressing such thoughts - then all the progression we have made as a country would never occurred, and all the progression we MIGHT make in the future might as well die before the very thought enters our minds.

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Old 02-09-2011, 01:30 PM   #39
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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By that, then seeing how the vast majority of the US is employed, the First Amendment doesn't exist.

If the employer's rights were as far reaching as you suggest (their ability to fire you over a name on a petition you signed off hours at your own home), then every lawyer, cop and civilian on that list would and "should" be fired. No, this is a case of persecution (for lack of a better word) and over stepping one's authority and sidestepping one's right for free speech.

As I said before, if this is how we are to judge the limits to our rights to believe what we want to believe - and the consequences of such thoughts - then all the progression we have made as a country would never occurred, and all the progression we MIGHT make in the future might as well die before the very thought enters our minds.

Again, I'd like to think that I wouldn't be stupid enough to sign a political petition that starts "As police officers, judges, prosecutors, corrections officials and others who have labored"... it might as well say "The following is a list of people employed in reputable public service positions who wish to abuse their respected position by making the following political statement.

There's probably a reason most who participated were retired...

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Old 02-09-2011, 01:30 PM   #40
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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By that, then seeing how the vast majority of the US is employed, the First Amendment doesn't exist.



If the employer's rights were as far reaching as you suggest (their ability to fire you over a name on a petition you signed off hours at your own home), then every lawyer, cop and civilian on that list would and "should" be fired. No, this is a case of persecution (for lack of a better word) and over stepping one's authority and sidestepping one's right for free speech.

As I said before, if this is how we are to judge the limits to our rights to believe what we want to believe - and the consequences of expressing such thoughts - then all the progression we have made as a country would never occurred, and all the progression we MIGHT make in the future might as well die before the very thought enters our minds.
Well to be fair, a lot of people went to jail for expressing their freedom of speech before things got changed. Look at the Civil Rights movement. A lot of black people going to jail for expressing their first amendment rights. Either way, I think we're moving away from the central issue here, which Hound has shown here. The contradiction within the petition.

Also, I maybe cynical but I've never really believed in the idea that we have freedom of speech and whatnot. Because more times than not it's been proven that we don't.

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Old 02-09-2011, 01:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

You Yankee's get so rilled up over pot.

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Old 02-09-2011, 01:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

I'm not sure if people have noticed, but there have been numerous times on this board (and others) that I've dropped a "This is not legal advice" disclaimer.

Similar thing.

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:17 PM   #43
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:17 PM   #44
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damn lag.

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:22 PM   #45
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

There basically sending a message. "Don't publicly fight to get laws changed".

Just so they can create an illusion of a justice system unified against the "horrors" of marijuana. Seems pretty shady and anti-democratic if you ask me.

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:35 PM   #46
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

I'm not the type of person to say this at all, but I'm surprised at the conformity and justification of government pissing on our rights that I'm seeing here.

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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I'm not the type of person to say this at all, but I'm surprised at the conformity and justification of government pissing on our rights that I'm seeing here.
It's not conformity or justification. I mean, we can rise up and attempt a revolution if we want. I'll be right behind you when you're ready.

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:41 PM   #48
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

Okay, one second, let me go have a dream first.

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Old 02-09-2011, 06:01 PM   #49
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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By that, then seeing how the vast majority of the US is employed, the First Amendment doesn't exist.
The First Amendment says the GOVERNMENT, not employers, shall not infringe upon the rights of free speech.

Employers can hire and fire who they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want as long as that decision is not based on race, religion or sexual orientation.

Bottom line is, if you are an officer of the law, and you believe in the legalization of marijuana, keep your trap shut about it until the law changes.

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Old 02-09-2011, 06:01 PM   #50
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