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View Poll Results: Is it time to legalize pot?
Yes 177 74.37%
No 48 20.17%
I don't know 13 5.46%
Voters: 238. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-09-2011, 05:01 PM   #51
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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Originally Posted by Spider-Who? View Post
By that, then seeing how the vast majority of the US is employed, the First Amendment doesn't exist.
The First Amendment says the GOVERNMENT, not employers, shall not infringe upon the rights of free speech.

Employers can hire and fire who they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want as long as that decision is not based on race, religion or sexual orientation.

Bottom line is, if you are an officer of the law, and you believe in the legalization of marijuana, keep your trap shut about it until the law changes.

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Old 02-09-2011, 05:12 PM   #52
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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Originally Posted by LOBO3315a View Post
The First Amendment says the GOVERNMENT, not employers, shall not infringe upon the rights of free speech.

Employers can hire and fire who they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want as long as that decision is not based on race, religion or sexual orientation.

Bottom line is, if you are an officer of the law, and you believe in the legalization of marijuana, keep your trap shut about it until the law changes.
Lobo is correct on that. The Federal government and the States along with local principalities can not censor the public from speech. Now on the other hand, other first amendment rights may be protected from employers via legislation.

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Old 02-09-2011, 07:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: Officer Fired For Supporting Marijuana Legalization

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Originally Posted by LOBO3315a View Post
The First Amendment says the GOVERNMENT, not employers, shall not infringe upon the rights of free speech.

Employers can hire and fire who they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want as long as that decision is not based on race, religion or sexual orientation.

Bottom line is, if you are an officer of the law, and you believe in the legalization of marijuana, keep your trap shut about it until the law changes.
That's not the bottom line either, you don't sign away your rights of freedom of speech when you're sworn in as a police officer. You do however have to add disclaimers to remove your status as an officer of the law from the opinions that you are voicing to make sure it's clear that the comments you make are your own and removed from any police position.

Personally, I think it was either a stupid, ill-conceived petition that was either clumsy with its phrasing or deliberately attempted to use the position of public servants to make a political statement, and much like a guy who gets caught drink driving when he knows he's pretty close to the limit; the officer has to take responsibility for his actions.

DISCLAIMER: Of course this is only my own personal view and should not be assumed to be the views of SAPOL as a whole nor its individual units/branches or affiliates.

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Old 02-25-2011, 02:01 PM   #54
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Reasons to not legalize :

-Police would loose a huge amount of their budgets.
- No bad guys to blame and show the big busts from cops for headlines
- Judges, courts, lawyers, jails all would see less income / budgets
- Pharma corporations would see less sold of their "special" drugs
- Oil corporations would see a green bio fuel alternative that is easy to produce.
- Paper industry would have alternative to trees, thus would harm the lumber industry.
- Clothing could be made from green materials verses the oil based nylons
- USA does not want it, and pushes this idea to the world via trade restrictions.
- Easier to make it illegal and tax the people by implementing policies to enforce this (i.e. everyone pays for this) then to tax a weed that grows pretty much anywhere.

So, with all of these things aligned against pot, do you think our government will change anything?

Will the government do anything to change the money funnel from the poor / middle income to the rich?

BC has it right, 4-20, just need to do this more often and right across the country. If more and more people were charged and I mean every pot smoker, then the government would have to do something about the issue.

I can not see 30% of the population having a record and having to deal with the charges in courts for long, this would bring the system to a stop.

So want change, force the issue, force the courts to deal with every person who supports the legalisation of pot. When charged, fight the charge, request judge and jury, this will only slow it further.

When the system stops working, then change will come, they will have no choice as public outrage will demand this.

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Old 02-28-2011, 04:40 AM   #55
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

All I know is that if theyd legalize it, Id spend quite a bit on it, as would every person I know.

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Old 02-28-2011, 11:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

You do realize that just because it is legalized, your job performance, driving, etc....would still all be regulated....right?

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Old 02-28-2011, 11:52 AM   #57
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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You do realize that just because it is legalized, your job performance, driving, etc....would still all be regulated....right?
Exactly. Just like booze. Wanna get hammered or stone? Do it on your day off or when you get off work and have the next day or two off.

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Old 02-28-2011, 11:59 AM   #58
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Yeah because you really need a couple days to recover after smoking a joint. lol

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Old 02-28-2011, 12:06 PM   #59
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Parts of Colorado have 100% legalized it and it seems to be working for them. Hell, a handful of my friends moved out there because of it. I'm sure a bunch of others have done the same. It has to be helping their economy.

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Old 02-28-2011, 12:07 PM   #60
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Yeah because you really need a couple days to recover after smoking a joint. lol
Seriously.

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Old 02-28-2011, 12:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
Yeah because you really need a couple days to recover after smoking a joint. lol
It doesn't take that long to recover, but you need 1-2 days to finish writing that amazing novel you thought up when you were baked.

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Old 02-28-2011, 02:38 PM   #62
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
Yeah because you really need a couple days to recover after smoking a joint. lol
Marijuana stays in your system longer than alcohol....so you smoke it, and 2 days later it shows up at your works mandatory checks....which I guarantee will happen if it is legalized....well you may not have a job. Just something to think about. I actually think it should be decriminalized first, and later move to legalizing. I'm not saying it hurts you any more than alcohol, etc....probably less, I'm just talking about the realities of the drug itself and how long it stays in the system. Could pose a problem with people at work, etc.

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Old 02-28-2011, 05:27 PM   #63
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Kel View Post
Marijuana stays in your system longer than alcohol....so you smoke it, and 2 days later it shows up at your works mandatory checks....which I guarantee will happen if it is legalized.
If pot is legalized then they'd have no reason to include it in a drug test.

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Old 02-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #64
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Alcohol is legal. If you have an accident on the job, they test for alcohol. This is because they know that if you are a certain height and weight, alcohol gets processed out of you body at a certain rate.

You can't do that with marijuana. People of the same height and weight metabolize it at a different rate. An employer can't with any reliability say marijuana wasn't a deciding factor in any accident because they can't tell when it's fully out of your system at any given time. And yes, it impairs your motor skills and judgment.

Employers will still do drug screens, even if it is after the fact. Employment paperwork will include verbiage stating that if it is found you are intoxicated (regardless of the source) while in their employ, you will be liable for any and all damages, yadda, yadda yadda.

So legalizing it would just take away the criminal repercussions. Chances are you still won't be hired if you toke and if you do, the employer will have the right to hang you out to dry.

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Old 02-28-2011, 06:21 PM   #65
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
If pot is legalized then they'd have no reason to include it in a drug test.

Quote:
What is tested?
Most employers utilize a standard five-panel test of "street drugs," consisting of Marijuana (THC), Cocaine, PCP, Opiates (such as codeine and morphine) and Amphetamines (including methamphetamine). Some employers use a ten-panel test, which includes prescription drugs that are legal to possess and use. Employers can also test for alcohol.
Although each drug and person is different, most drugs will stay in the system for 2-4 days. For chronic users of certain drugs, such a marijuana or PCP, results can be detected for up to 14 days, and sometimes much longer. Sedatives, such as Valium, may stay in the system for up to 30 days. When the more expensive hair testing method is used, drugs can be detected for a 90-day period. To avoid the complications from "second hand" marijuana smoke, most labs will set a higher threshold before reporting THC in the system.
Most employers will insist that a job applicant give the urine sample within a specific period of time, so that a drug user does not wait until the drugs leave the system. Some drug experts consider a drug test to be an IQ test—taking a test knowing there are drugs in the system is not a sign of great intelligence. Laboratories and collection sites also have ways to determine if the applicant has attempted to alter the test sample.

Legal drugs are tested as well with many employers...most of your employers where heavy machinery is used, etc....will use the ten-panel test, for obvious reasons, since even legal drugs can impair your ability to handle the machinery.

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Old 02-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #66
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

A common misconception is that THC is stored in the body's fat cells and that when a drug test is taken, the drug test is detecting THC. The reality is that only THC metabolites - the byproducts of THC breakdown - are stored in the body's fat cells. Drug tests seek to detect THC metabolites. One can not get high from the metabolites. Cognitive Abilities (memory, executive functioning, motor control, concentration) are only affected for the duration of intoxication. If someone smokes a joint and does not use cannabis after that, they will only be under the effects for about 8 hours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562334/


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/


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Old 02-28-2011, 06:31 PM   #67
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Actually, as I stated in the first post, I do not believe that marijuana would impair someone anymore than alcohol, at its weakest point even......my only point was....there is the possibility of problems coming from these drug tests, and that is why I would rather decriminalize first, set up the proper EDUCATED infrastructure, to properly test marijuana, either by police, or employers to make sure that the correct outcome comes about.

I'm not arguing with you as far as how marijuana impairs or doesn't impair ones ability to do their work. Alcohol has an easier standard developed over the years.....my point is, lets set up a strong infrastructure so that people are not wrongly accused of being impaired simply because the testing is not correct, etc....BECAUSE, they will be tested....whether it is legal or not....it will be tested. I would hate for someone to lose their job simply because the standards are not correct....that's my only point really.

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Old 02-28-2011, 06:42 PM   #68
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You also stated....

Marijuana stays in your system longer than alcohol, so you smoke it, and 2 days later it shows up at your works mandatory checks....which I guarantee will happen if it is legalized.

This doesn't make much sense if your cognitive abilities are only affected for up to 8 hours.

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Old 02-28-2011, 06:51 PM   #69
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Which goes with what I said in the second post, and eluded to in the first......

YES, it stays in the system longer, and if the tests do not allow for this, and right now they don't, they only have the standard higher to make sure that second hand smoke is not found....then its pretty easy to think that without proper testing infrastructure people could be wrongly accused, and in reality have the cognitive abilities to do exactly what they need to do. I simply want the infrastructure to be strong, and in place before legalization. This, IMO, will take time because it probably will be a state by state thing....

You are right, it doesn't make much sense, yet mistakes are made in those tests ALL THE TIME.....pretty easy to conclude that without some educated changes, ESPECIALLY in the area of marijuana if it is indeed legalized could continue to happen. I simply want the workers who choose to partake in the vegetation to be properly tested....

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:09 PM   #70
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Assuming it's legal in this discussion...so what if someone was high last night? If they can still work....who cares?

If they have a feeling that the person is high at THAT moment in time, they can just do a blood test, which goes for the current state of high, rather then what you did last night.

And you would be suprised as to how many people work at their jobs, stoned off their asses, and yet manage to get their work done. It's not impossible.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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And you would be suprised as to how many people work at their jobs, stoned off their asses, and yet manage to get their work done. It's not impossible.
Yeah, they sit behind a desk or work at Burger King.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:26 PM   #72
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Exactly!

No stoner would be stupid enough to work a construction job stoned.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:29 PM   #73
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Jobs that require intense focus will have a zero tolerance for marijuana. Other jobs will treat it the same as alcohol intoxication. It's pretty simple.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:31 PM   #74
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And they already do blood tests for drivers who are under the influence of marijauna. So....it's pretty simple. If you can drive high, go for it. It's not impossible. People do more dangerous things at the wheel anyway.

If you get pulled over for being stoned at the wheel, you get treated as a DUI...simple as that.

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Old 03-01-2011, 08:35 PM   #75
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

I'm not arguing anything about what people "can do" while stoned....I'm sure they can do all kinds of things just fine.

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