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Old 05-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #551
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
I did not say you were a Christian, I simply said...IF that is how you believe, that is perfectly fine....if you aren't? ok....then what is your scientific basis for when the first breath is taken? Or when the embryo becomes a baby? Alive, etc... I would certainly respect your opinion if you felt it was at conception, but if not...that is ok as well.

As far as Plan B??????? I still have problems with a 15 year old being able to buy it over the counter, (it's the teacher in me I guess), but I would certainly hope women would take that into consideration.
I know you didn't say that, it was Leetank that did assume.

I'm not sure what you mean by my scientific basis for when the first breath is taken. Are you asking if I consider the baby "practice breathing" is breathing? If so, then my answer would be yes, essentially, even if they're not filling their lungs with oxygen in the way we do every day.

As for when the embryo becomes a baby.... Can't it be both?

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:10 PM   #552
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

This treating when life begins and when it's acceptable to kill someone based primarily on convenience as a subjective issue garbage is beyond disgusting. It's not a matter of opinion.

http://rightcal.blogspot.com/2011/07...begins-at.html

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:11 PM   #553
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Originally Posted by DareDemon View Post
I also want to know why calling abortionists monsters is considered offensive, but saying that some Christian beliefs are "backwards" is not. Canada and the U.S. both have freedom of religion in their basic constitutions, but nothing on abortion, which to me indicates not being persecuted for your religion is more important than being allowed to abort babies. And yet no one bats an eye.

I respectfully accept my warning and realize why it had to happen, and the mods are just doing their jobs. But I don't think it was completely fair, because even if I did call a large group of people monsters first, Leetank still did the same basic "crime".
Because the way you have set your opinion...ANYONE who believes that it is ok to have an abortion from day one -- even 7 months as in this case is a monster.

And backwards meaning? Not what the majority believe today? or ignorant? After reading the post I would make that judgment.
You call a Christian on this board ignorant, I will have a problem with that, you call anyone ignorant I will have a problem with it.

Monster holds a far greater magnitude of extremes...

So bottomline is this, keep your opinion to the issue. But, you call posters names because of their opinion, or you are called a name because of your opinion...an infraction will be given. Very simple, follow that rule and you are good to go.

I've given you my opinion on the issue of Abortion...
Moving on.

And as a norm, it is usually better to simply report a post that you find offensive, doing the same thing in retaliation, or for any other reason actually...quite possibly will get you the infraction as well. Just a thought...

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #554
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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To an extent its capitalist I suppose, but you're not supposed to profit off of it. America is supposed to guarantee certain rights, which I see as inconsistent with abortion. The value of human life seems much greater in America than in the Soviet Union or Maoist China. Abortion being the exception, although we at least don't FORCE abortions...usually....
If you believe in people having their personal liberties and freedoms, then it's a basic case stay out of their lives. That's how I look at it even though from a personal standpoint I think it's wrong(save life of the mother or rape)

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:19 PM   #555
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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This treating when life begins and when it's acceptable to kill someone based primarily on convenience as a subjective issue garbage is beyond disgusting. It's not a matter of opinion.

http://rightcal.blogspot.com/2011/07...begins-at.html
I agree, although I do believe it is an opinion to call it disgusting. Gosnell, I think, just enjoys killing and took advantage of a career choice. So for him, it's beautiful, just like any "good" serial killer. By the way, when he's convicted, he'll be considered the most "successful" serial killer in history.



Kelly: The "backwards" statement is on page 22 immediately following my original post. I believe is was him calling the beliefs ignorant.

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:24 PM   #556
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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If you believe in people having their personal liberties and freedoms, then it's a basic case stay out of their lives. That's how I look at it even though from a personal standpoint I think it's wrong(save life of the mother or rape)
Well, if a person thinks abortion should be considered murder, that person would not think it different than putting a "regular" murderer in prison. If the baby is a human, then abortion would be murdering that human. That's not infringing on the murderer's rights, that's justice. I wouldn't consider it freedom or liberty to have murder be legal.

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Old 05-05-2013, 08:19 PM   #557
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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It should be legal and it is in Canada, my gf and I got one because we weren't ready for a child. Women have the right to choose.

And no amount of name calling or backward christian opinions will change my view on it.
You didn't get one, your girlfriend did...and she may very well go through emotional turmoil that you will never know about or feel yourself. There is a lot that comes with having an abortion, sometimes we are filled in on those things and sometimes we aren't. But really, all you had a hand in so to speak was the sex.

Also, we have people that post here that their opinion is based on their Christian beliefs, how about we treat their opinion with the same respect you would want yours treated with, because no one is trying to force you to believe anything, they are simply giving their opinion on this issue.

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Old 05-05-2013, 10:19 PM   #558
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I personally have no problem what so ever with abortion. If you don't think you can handle it or you know you would give the child a horrible life than by all means have an abortion. The planet is over-populated as it is. The last thing we need is more children born into poverty and turning to crime because thats all they know and were taught. I have no problem with it at all.

I really think that anyone that has a problem with it should mind their own business. It's not their choice and it's a hard one to make but I know many women that have had abortions and their lives would not be the same today if they didn't. I personally wouldn't ask my girl to get one because I am of the mind set that if I can take care of my child then there is no reason not to have them, but I am all for people that can't take care of them or don't want them getting them.

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Old 05-05-2013, 11:13 PM   #559
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I basically agree with the above post.

Call me a "monster", or whatever, I'm not going to pretend something bothers me if it doesn't.

Gosnell belongs in prison though.

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Old 05-14-2013, 05:23 PM   #560
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Well, that's just terribly depressing, you two.

But human life is our business as we are all humans, and we were all once fetuses. There but for the grace of God go we and all that.

But I came here because of the recent news in the case. Kermit Gosnell really just embodies everything that is wrong with abortion. The only difference between infanticide and abortion in later stages is the location of the fetus / infant.

Gosnell is a criminal, but the people who enabled him for years have just as much blood on their hands (i.e. those discouraging inspections, and refusing to listen to third parties about the ongoing abuses).

The death penalty is too good for the man.

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Old 05-14-2013, 05:36 PM   #561
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Well, that's just terribly depressing, you two.

But human life is our business as we are all humans, and we were all once fetuses. There but for the grace of God go we and all that.

But I came here because of the recent news in the case. Kermit Gosnell really just embodies everything that is wrong with abortion. The only difference between infanticide and abortion in later stages is the location of the fetus / infant.

Gosnell is a criminal, but the people who enabled him for years have just as much blood on their hands (i.e. those discouraging inspections, and refusing to listen to third parties about the ongoing abuses).

The death penalty is too good for the man.
Thunder, I'm not quite sure why, but I would have never thought you would write a post like this.

Don't take it wrong, it just seems against your more liberal tilt.

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Old 05-14-2013, 06:02 PM   #562
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I'm complex. Or possibly schizophrenic.

But evil is evil. This man is the embodiment of it. He has shown complete and utter contempt for human life. Not just for the fetuses, but the babies, and even the mothers. There's no ideology here. This man is just a murderer.

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Old 05-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #563
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I gotta agree with you on that....

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:29 AM   #564
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Default Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

I'm shocked there is not thread on this. Wendy Davis filibustered past midnight, and the Texas GOP still voted on the bill.

What's sad is that I would provide links, but the media does not seem to be covering it, which is shocking.

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:57 AM   #565
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

TV isn't (CNN was apparently talking about muffins ), but Twitter is. Search for #standwithwendy on Twitter and you'll see everything.

I think there's still a crowd at the state senate, booing because the GOP broke their own rules while holding her to theirs, and voted past midnight. AP says they made the deadline, but apparently their only source was the Republican Lt. Governor.

I'm not sure what they're going to do with this mess, but I think after they shut Wendy down for getting a third warning after 10 hours (she couldn't receive ANY help, or even lean onto anything), the crowd actually filibustered FOR her, delaying the vote past midnight by yelling so loudly that the senators couldn't even do a roll call.

Agree with it or not, that's just kind of amazing.

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Old 06-26-2013, 01:38 AM   #566
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

I'm seeing a huge load of outrage on fb and twitter but I can't actually find any decent news source that will explain what happened


Of course no news channel in the uk is covering it but it must be something big to have caused such a outrage, I'm hearing things like war on women being battered about by people.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:04 AM   #567
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

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I'm seeing a huge load of outrage on fb and twitter but I can't actually find any decent news source that will explain what happened


Of course no news channel in the uk is covering it but it must be something big to have caused such a outrage, I'm hearing things like war on women being battered about by people.
The Guardian has a pretty helpful article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...libuster-chaos

Basically, Texas state senators were going to pass a bill that the governor said he would sign, that would ban abortions after 20 weeks, limit abortion-inducing drugs, and effectively close a great majority of the state's abortion providers. The last point seems to be the sticking point, since many of the state's medical personnel doesn't think reclassifying abortion providers is necessary.

If voted on, the bill would have passed because of the Republican majority. Senator Wendy Davis was apparently chosen by the Democrats to lead a last stand by doing a filibuster - she had to stand unaided for 13 hours with no breaks, talking on the topic until midnight. She made it 10 hrs 45 minutes before she was warned a third time (they make you stop if you're warned three times for receiving help, leaning on something, or going off topic) and they struck her down. Her fellow Democrat then took up the charge for the last hour, and the gathered crowd cheered so loudly at the end, that they themselves ran down the clock for the last 10 minutes. The senate attempted to vote anyway (just past midnight, which is against the rules), but it was such chaos that supposedly many of them had no idea what they were voting on.

Right now they're discussing behind closed doors to determine whether the vote was taken before midnight, but 180,000 people were watching the live feed and they were still calling roll when the clock struck 12.

The fact that the male-heavy Republican contingent is trying to change the damn time stamps on their own records to silence one of their own (who just so happens to be a woman) just about says it all.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:22 AM   #568
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

They just announced it - "SB5 is dead!" You go Wendy and all the crowds at the senate for cheering them on! Democracy still lives!

The vote was taken on 12:03am, therefore invalid. The governor will have to call another special session for it to be voted on, but I read that it would be 2 years from now or something?

What's interesting is that none of the cable news is on this - it's all been on Twitter and I've seen a lot of Vine clips. I suppose this is how social media apps get big?

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:31 AM   #569
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

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What's interesting is that none of the cable news is on this - it's all been on Twitter and I've seen a lot of Vine clips. I suppose this is how social media apps get big?
Rachel Maddow has had a couple clips on this the past week or so

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:42 AM   #570
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

When midnight passed and the drama was at its highest, CNN was talking about how many calories there are in a blueberry muffin. You'd think if there was a moment for a 24-hr cable news channel, it would be this!

Instead, people were watching a Texas legislation stream and a Ustream made by a lone spectator on his smartphone for news.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:55 AM   #571
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I just had a question pop into my head, thanks to the hubbub over the Wendy David filibuster and all. I'm genuinely curious as to what the answers are.

Would those who are anti-abortion support a mandate that says, everyone must be screened for bone marrow donation. If you are a match for someone who needs a transplant, you are legally obligated to donate your marrow, even if you have to be put under to do it. If you refuse, you will be arrested and tried. (Not to mention the patient will likely die.)

What say you?

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Old 06-26-2013, 03:56 AM   #572
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

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They just announced it - "SB5 is dead!" You go Wendy and all the crowds at the senate for cheering them on! Democracy still lives!
How is that democracy? Sounds like the Democrats won on a technicality by running the clock out. If anything, democracy failed, since the vast majority of Texans supported the measure.

Then again, I probably fail to see the bright side of this...

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Old 06-26-2013, 04:00 AM   #573
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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I just had a question pop into my head, thanks to the hubbub over the Wendy David filibuster and all. I'm genuinely curious as to what the answers are.

Would those who are anti-abortion support a mandate that says, everyone must be screened for bone marrow donation. If you are a match for someone who needs a transplant, you are legally obligated to donate your marrow, even if you have to be put under to do it. If you refuse, you will be arrested and tried. (Not to mention the patient will likely die.)

What say you?
Hell no? Though, if you asked me for bone marrow in a sincere manner, I would be more agreeable.

Please tell me you're not trying to make some kind of analogy with that.

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Old 06-26-2013, 04:17 AM   #574
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Hell no? Though, if you asked me for bone marrow in a sincere manner, I would be more agreeable.

Please tell me you're not trying to make some kind of analogy with that.
What else do you think I'm trying to do with that?

I'm pro-choice but I wouldn't have an abortion myself, so I don't consider myself "pro-abortion." That would make me a hypocrite, would it not? I'm pro-birth control and sex education to prevent said abortions, but I wouldn't make it illegal to have one. I would just try to prevent them in the first place.

For those who are anti-abortion to "save lives," I'm honestly curious as to what they think about something else that would save lives, but is right now completely voluntary.

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Old 06-26-2013, 04:24 AM   #575
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Default Re: Wendy Davis Fillibuster against Texas Abortion Law

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How is that democracy? Sounds like the Democrats won on a technicality by running the clock out. If anything, democracy failed, since the vast majority of Texans supported the measure.

Then again, I probably fail to see the bright side of this...
Did they?

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Of registered voters, 63 percent say the state has enough restrictions on abortion and 71 percent thinking that the Governor and legislature should be more focused on the economy and jobs.
http://gqrr.com/articles/2013/06/20/...abortion-bill/

I'd say most Texans are sane on that bolded part.

I'm trying to find numbers that say the opposite, but it's only conservative folks on Twitter who are crying foul with no sources or even numbers.

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