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Old 10-30-2013, 10:15 AM   #701
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Stop trying to legislate what a human being can do with her own body. The end!

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:56 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by Comics N' Toons View Post
Stop trying to legislate what a human being can do with her own body. The end!
No, I'm quite happy with keeping partial birth abortions illegal, thank you.

Granted, a lot of this was petty politics, but you do need some laws.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:14 PM   #703
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The 30 miles thing though is a trap law. Basically the Texas State government knows alot of hospitals will not allow them admitting rights, which makes it impossible for alot of abortion clinics to pass that regulation since they might not meet that qualification
Never said their motives were pure....

In my opinion, the way to have made sure that the fetus was not viable and that the facilities were up to par would have been to do as most European countries do, make the cut off period around 14 -- 16 months. PLENTY OF TIME to make a decision, and set regulations on the doctors performing that they meet certain criteria for this surgery. What that criteria is? I would have to research further, but I do know that they longer the woman waits, the more of a chance of problems arises.

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Old 10-30-2013, 06:12 PM   #704
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and set regulations.........
Well that should be a non starter for Rick "I hate Regulations" Perry :P

Personally I believe with certain exception(life of the mother being the main one) abortions should be done in the first trimester. All that being said I think part of any abortion bill should funding for preventative care in the first place. This to me is where Republicans fail, they basically have a stick your head in the sand approach to trying to stop abortion

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Old 11-01-2013, 08:39 AM   #705
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals has reinstated most of the restrictions that were overturned in District Court.

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Old 08-14-2014, 12:48 PM   #706
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Recording Catches Anti-Abortionists Plotting How to Intimidate Women



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Liberal activists in Texas have released audio they say is from a training session for anti-abortion activists at the state Capitol earlier this month—audio in which trainers can be heard discussing their successes stalking patients and clinic workers, scaring women, and tricking them out of seeking the procedure.

The activists were gathered at the Texas Capitol in Austin for a "pro-life primer" titled "Keeping Abortion Facilities Closed." It's unclear how Progress Texas, the pro-choice group that released the audio, obtained its recording.

"We are committed to having silent counselors and prayer partners in front of every abortion facility during all hours that abortions are being performed," said the first speaker, identified by activists as Karen Garnett, executive director of the Catholic Pro-Life Committee of North Texas. She continues:

And part of that is so that we can track. We can track the number of women who choose life, the mothers who choose life. We can also track who works there. Who is your abortionist. How do we know who has privileges. Well you do that, it's totally legal to track license plates, right, so this way, the license plates are coming into any abortion facility—we have a very sophisticated little spreadsheet everybody can track. This way you can track whether or not a client comes back, if they turn away or come back.

This tracking is not meant to find the identity of a client, Garnett stresses, "but you'd have license plates, car make, model, description of the person. And then as far as the staff members and the abortionists, you can identify if you got a new abortionist."

Intimidating physicians who perform abortions seems to have been a major focus of the training course. A speaker believed to be Michael Demma, director of a Catholic group called Respect Life, brags on the recording about getting three of four clinics shut down in the Ft. Worth area, then adds somewhat ominously of the last remaining clinic: "They have two abortionists. We've been able to identify one in there and we're still searching for the other."

"These abortionists are feeling the pressure," Abby Johnson, organizer of the session, adds. "I think they feel like they're on the run, and that's how we want to keep it. We want to keep pressure high on them and [let] them know that they can move wherever they want—they can move down the road or to another city—and we're still gonna be outside their clinics."

Garnett adds that the anti-abortion activists' intimidating presence alone deterred many women from seeking treatment at the targeted centers:

When we're out there, we're helping moms choose life, we've got the sidewalk lined with people, Abby tells us that the number of canceled appointments, no-shows, just because they don't want to drive in because they see our presence there. That's one impact.

Pro-choice advocates say the audio also suggests that anti-abortion activists "also spread misinformation about clinics in order to specifically target low-income patients." They cite a presentation attributed to Eileen Romano of a group called 40 Days for Life in which she says her activists used "the street talk" to pass on an untrue rumor that the abortion clinic was shutting down.

"The poorer ones that are going there for abortions, they heard that it was going to close, so they quit going there and started going to Hope Clinic," she says, referring to an anti-abortion women's clinic. "Because they thought [the abortion clinic] was closed and they didn't have transportation to get there. God is good."
http://progresstexas.org/blog/underc...bortion-groups

These people are scum, it's a woman's choice and she shouldn't be bullied into having a child she may not be able to care for. These idiots are all about the rights of the unborn but when they are born and need government assistance to eat screw that, it's the mothers problem then

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Old 08-18-2014, 11:01 PM   #707
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I think we should get rid of the Hyde Amendment. Women on medicare and Medicaid deserve to be e their abortions covered regardless if it was caused by rape or not.

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Old 08-18-2014, 11:03 PM   #708
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Yeah, when the Supreme Court is letting companies opt out of providing their employees contraceptives, I really doubt they're going to make people foot the bills for elective abortions.

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Old 08-18-2014, 11:31 PM   #709
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Yeah, when the Supreme Court is letting companies opt out of providing their employees contraceptives, I really doubt they're going to make people foot the bills for elective abortions.
Hopefully some of those conservative judges will die and get replaced. Normally I don't endorse democrats, but I think 2014 is a good year to vote then into congress.

Plus the situation is different. One is expanding medicare coverage, the other is targeting private businesses that give health insurance. While I oppose the hobby lobby decision, here's less of a reason to go to court for that than federal funded abortions.

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Old 08-18-2014, 11:36 PM   #710
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Except that half the population would oppose it.

The only people who would fight for that are feminists, and some really far left Democrats.

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Old 08-19-2014, 08:15 AM   #711
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

If this was a religious issue than according to the bible a baby isn't considered life until they take their first breath. (which contradicts the typical western evangelical belief)

But since this isn't a religious issue I'd say it's more of an issue of conscience and of the definition of life.

To be honest...i'm very uncomfortable with abortion past a certain point in the pregnancy. I would say a good "off limits" point would be after 5 months. Though I also believe there should be circumstances that allow for abortions after that point (namely rape victims or severe retardation that's detectable)

I feel that allowing full abortions at anytime can create a dehumanization of life in a person and takes away self-responsibility. Ie...if you do the deed, you have to expect something might happen. In this culture we already have way too much of a problem with people feeling they shouldn't have consequences for their actions (especially teens) and allowing full abortions at any time just encourages that belief more)

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Old 08-19-2014, 09:47 AM   #712
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Originally Posted by Destructus86 View Post
If this was a religious issue than according to the bible a baby isn't considered life until they take their first breath. (which contradicts the typical western evangelical belief)

But since this isn't a religious issue I'd say it's more of an issue of conscience and of the definition of life.

To be honest...i'm very uncomfortable with abortion past a certain point in the pregnancy. I would say a good "off limits" point would be after 5 months. Though I also believe there should be circumstances that allow for abortions after that point (namely rape victims or severe retardation that's detectable)

I feel that allowing full abortions at anytime can create a dehumanization of life in a person and takes away self-responsibility. Ie...if you do the deed, you have to expect something might happen. In this culture we already have way too much of a problem with people feeling they shouldn't have consequences for their actions (especially teens) and allowing full abortions at any time just encourages that belief more)
I agree with you. I think that if a woman gets pregnant and decides she doesn't want the baby, she should end it as soon as possible. Waiting for a few months seems almost cruel. If you want to end it, why wait? As you said, I can also see later term abortions if it was rape or there is an illness or disorder that will eventually kill the child anyways.

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Old 08-19-2014, 12:46 PM   #713
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Originally Posted by Destructus86 View Post
If this was a religious issue than according to the bible a baby isn't considered life until they take their first breath. (which contradicts the typical western evangelical belief)

But since this isn't a religious issue I'd say it's more of an issue of conscience and of the definition of life.

To be honest...i'm very uncomfortable with abortion past a certain point in the pregnancy. I would say a good "off limits" point would be after 5 months. Though I also believe there should be circumstances that allow for abortions after that point (namely rape victims or severe retardation that's detectable)

I feel that allowing full abortions at anytime can create a dehumanization of life in a person and takes away self-responsibility. Ie...if you do the deed, you have to expect something might happen. In this culture we already have way too much of a problem with people feeling they shouldn't have consequences for their actions (especially teens) and allowing full abortions at any time just encourages that belief more)
I agree with you here. My view on abortion has been if you want one, you better be able to pay for it yourself and do it soon enough that you don't get past a certain development stage of the fetus (5 months is a pretty good cut-off point.) The government shouldn't be covering something that most can afford out-of-pocket and typically a very elective procedure, unless there's something medically impactful about the whole pregnancy.

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Old 11-09-2015, 04:47 AM   #714
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http://www.lsureveille.com/daily/opi...de67a19ec.html

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No candidate has done more to decrease the abortion rate than Obama because he supports greater access to health insurance and contraception.

According to a 2014 Guttmacher Institute report, under Obama’s leadership, the abortion rate in the United States dropped to its lowest point in 2014 since 1973, the year when abortion was legalized.

This finding is not an outlier. A 2015 Associated Press poll found abortions dropped by 12 percent nationwide since 2010.

Access to contraception remains the best way to reduce the abortion rate. A 2012 Washington University School of Medicine study found abortion rates decline up to as much as 75 percent when contraceptives are made available to women free of charge.

The study drew from 9,000 St. Louis, Missouri, women, many of whom were uninsured, and covered the costs of contraception for them. Once the cost of contraception was removed as a barrier, many women opted to use an intrauterine device, which are relatively expensive and among the most effective contraceptive methods to prevent pregnancy.

The abortion rate is at its lowest point since the procedure became legal because the Affordable Care Act increased access to birth control. Under the ACA, insurance companies are required to cover contraceptives, a provision opposed by many anti-abortion groups.

Yet the pro lifers want to defeund places like Planned Parenthood. Go figure

Another funny bit from the article

Quote:
Anti-abortion activists may argue the reason the abortion rates declined is because of the passage of stricter abortion laws. But the only two states to report an increase in the abortion rate in the 2015 Associated Press poll were Michigan and Louisiana, two states that have passed numerous abortion restrictions in recent years.

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Old 11-09-2015, 04:29 PM   #715
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To me, abortion is a moral grey area; yes past a certain point you are taking a human life, but at the same time, what if you are in no condition to care for that child, will more than likely be born into poverty and have to struggle every day for survival, it is severely deformed, is a detriment to the health of the mother, or was conceived through rape or/and incest? My stance more or less is to uphold Roe v. Wade and keep it a state issue; of the federal government were to get involved, things would just get messy as hell.

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Old 11-09-2015, 05:22 PM   #716
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

And this is back... Such a shame that Torch and Boxer are gone.

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Old 11-09-2015, 06:24 PM   #717
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To me, abortion is a moral grey area; yes past a certain point you are taking a human life, but at the same time, what if you are in no condition to care for that child, will more than likely be born into poverty and have to struggle every day for survival, it is severely deformed, is a detriment to the health of the mother, or was conceived through rape or/and incest? My stance more or less is to uphold Roe v. Wade and keep it a state issue; of the federal government were to get involved, things would just get messy as hell.
My belief is whether one is pro life or pro choice, we should all be for finding ways to cut down abortions through stopping unwanted pregnancies. Preaching abstinence only is the stuff of unicorns and leprechauns(although I have no problem with promoting abstinence as a choice that people should seriously look into)

Personally I wish Democrats would celebrate the results of the above article more as a victory for their policies.


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Old 11-09-2015, 06:28 PM   #718
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Abstinence can be practiced by adults. Teaching hormone riddled sex crazed teens (Of which we all were at once point) to only abstain from sex instead of using safe sex or whatever is insane and stupid. Not to mention it doesn't ****ing work.

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Old 11-09-2015, 06:30 PM   #719
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Abstinence can be practiced by adults. Teaching hormone riddled sex crazed teens (Of which we all were at once point) to only abstain from sex instead of using safe sex or whatever is insane and stupid. Not to mention it doesn't ****ing work.
Doesn't mean it shouldn't be promoted as one of many options

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Old 11-09-2015, 06:32 PM   #720
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You can tell kids it's okay but teach them other stuff too because you know a good amount are going to say **** that. (Pun intended)

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Old 11-10-2015, 08:59 AM   #721
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You can tell kids it's okay but teach them other stuff too because you know a good amount are going to say **** that. (Pun intended)
There are dummies in every generation. You teach them the right way, the real way, and the ways that will not derail their life. You then hope they develop the judgement skills needed to make the right choice when these opportunities present themselves to the children. Certainly it is right to teach the kids as much as possible so they can make an informed decision on their own. Some will chose abstinence. Some will bare bone it. It's human nature. But at least the ones bare boning it were given proper direction.

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Old 11-10-2015, 11:16 AM   #722
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Hopefully some of those conservative judges will die and get replaced. Normally I don't endorse democrats, but I think 2014 is a good year to vote then into congress.

Plus the situation is different. One is expanding medicare coverage, the other is targeting private businesses that give health insurance. While I oppose the hobby lobby decision, here's less of a reason to go to court for that than federal funded abortions.
I like how you are fine with aborting babies and hoping for the deaths of people. How compassionate.

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Old 12-22-2015, 09:48 PM   #723
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Congratulations Republicans, I believe these numbers can all be credited to you year long attacks on abortion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hood-shooting/

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Support for abortion rights hits two-year high after Planned Parenthood shooting

Support for abortion is at a two-year high, according to the first national abortion poll since a Nov. 27 shooting rampage at a Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs.

This year alone, approval of legal abortion jumped from 51 percent to 58 percent between January and December, according to the Associated Press-Gfk poll. Support rose among both Democrats and Republicans despite the summer release of videos purporting to show Planned Parenthood officials discussing the sale of fetal tissue.

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Old 12-26-2015, 02:29 PM   #724
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People are going to seek out abortions regardless of whether it's legal or not. My dad's first wife almost died from a backalley abortion since it wasn't legal and regardless of beliefs, I feel it should be legal since a moral choice from society and elected officials isn't going to stop those who need/want it. If a person is opposed to it, then they'd have to be pro-government assistance for things like welfare and other services since the people you'd force to have a kid are probably going to need it

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Old 12-26-2015, 02:59 PM   #725
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If a person is opposed to it, then they'd have to be pro-government assistance for things like welfare and other services since the people you'd force to have a kid are probably going to need it
I think many on the anti abortion side believe that if you stick your head int he sand and do absolutely nothing the problem will somehow take care of itself.

Personally I think is somebody has strong feelings against abortion they should be the ones try to push pregnancy prevention programs the most, but it seems like most that make abortion issue #1 on their voting list that are against abortions are against anti prevention programs as well(because they feel it promotes having sex). It almost feels at times the "family values" anti abortion people view having a kid as punishment, which intern they believe will be a deterrent against having sex for non procreation purposes.

It would be nice if we actually had a few(vocal) anti abortion but pro helping the poor children and pro pregnancy prevention politicians but it seems like you are either one extreme(against everything) or the other(for everything)


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