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Old 02-14-2011, 11:03 AM   #26
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I think this film will probably ultimately be good but I don't think it's what the franchise needed to save itself. The quality that is on display would have been better served to make a reboot rather then a prequel to a convoluted continuity that is even ignoring it's own history. Singer likes to have his cake and eat it too, as seen with Superman Returns. The problem is the audience doesn't like that mentality as much as he does.
I feel like ultimately X-Men has good potential to be like James Bond; a series of movies that follow some skeleton continuity, but allow themselves to change if necessary.

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:32 PM   #27
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I really didn't like much of what I read and saw about this movie but then i saw the trailer. I must say it put it in a better light than I already had. I still have my negative feelings towards it but right now I'm willing to give it more of a chance than I may have before. Most of the my positivity comes from Magneto he looks AWESOME.

A few of my negative points are:
Look of Beast, hate the cat look
The inclusion of Havok still dont understand it
Xavier has hair!!!!
D-List characters
Only just heard about Xavier using his powers to manipulate women into sleeping with him and I really don't like that idea. Yeah fair enough we can say what would most people do but would most people put on a costume and save people for free? Not likely so doesnt really wash!

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:42 PM   #28
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Only just heard about Xavier using his powers to manipulate women into sleeping with him and I really don't like that idea. Yeah fair enough we can say what would most people do but would most people put on a costume and save people for free? Not likely so doesnt really wash!
You can dislike it, that's your perogative. I think the point I would, and have, made about this is that it's not really inconsistent with the comics. Xavier has a string of odd and very fleeting romances. I would consider him a man whore, especially if characters like DareDevil, Johnny Storm and Hal Jordan get this reputation. If Xavier sought political power with his gifts I would be against that interpretation since Magneto does that and this is where I would say they differ. What they share is a certain deference to their own kind, and they both seem to use their powers for forms of personal gain. Sexual gratification is not something that is out of the question for Xavier, and many writers from Stan Lee to Grant Morrison have touched on this aspect of him.

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:49 PM   #29
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You can dislike it, that's your perogative. I think the point I would, and have, made about this is that it's not really inconsistent with the comics. Xavier has a string of odd and very fleeting romances. I would consider him a man whore, especially if characters like DareDevil, Johnny Storm and Hal Jordan get this reputation. If Xavier sought political power with his gifts I would be against that interpretation since Magneto does that and this is where I would say they differ. What they share is a certain deference to their own kind, and they both seem to use their powers for forms of personal gain. Sexual gratification is not something that is out of the question for Xavier, and many writers from Stan Lee to Grant Morrison have touched on this aspect of him.
Apart from the oddness in some of relationships what he has gone through is not unusual especially as young male. However, the vibe getting from this film is that he's some kind of Austin Powers Noooo

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:58 PM   #30
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Apart from the oddness in some of relationships what he has gone through is not unusual especially as young male. However, the vibe getting from this film is that he's some kind of Austin Powers Noooo
Well, he's not a real person so that doesn't really apply. His status as a confirmed bachelor has always been a large part of his character. As I say if you read enough X-Men there is more than enough source material to indicate that he was a bit like Austin Powers in his youth (sans the comedy). I don't think it's right to add hyper-active libidos to every character in comics, no matter how much sex they could get out of their powers, but for Xavier it seems to me consistent with how I've seen him written.

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Old 02-14-2011, 02:17 PM   #31
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I understand Vaugn saying what he said.

Comic book fans are WAYYY to hard to please, you guys ***** and complain like teenage girls no matter what happens

So why should a director cater to them? especially if it involves interfering with what he wants to do with the story.


If comic book fans lightened up a bit and weren't so damn pissy i think more directors would cater to them.
You make something like TDK & tick enough of the right boxes (doesn't need to be perfect) & these complaints become inaudible. Comic fans have a bad reputation but part of that is due to most of the films being made for them (up until recently) being average, below average or failing to reach potential. With every good film made you see that the favourable voices vastly outnumber the complainers.

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Old 02-14-2011, 02:28 PM   #32
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You make something like TDK & tick enough of the right boxes (doesn't need to be perfect) & these complaints become inaudible. Comic fans have a bad reputation but part of that is due to most of the films being made for them (up until recently) being average, below average or failing to reach potential. With every good film made you see that the favourable voices vastly outnumber the complainers.
I think comic accuracy is paramount, but at the same time I think fans are fickle, and often 'comic accuracy' and 'personal interpretation' become one in the same thing. I think Xavier being a sex addict is a perfect example. It's not as though they've violated the comics by giving him lots of sexual partners, but because fans have a high regard for him having this moral failing is seen as an afront to the character.

Iron Man (and Donner's Superman) did a masterful job of adapting the comics, because even the changes had roots in the source material. The final product felt like a condensed version of the comic, whereas I think TDK and the X-Franchise has failed to replicate the comic book, regardless of how good the movies were.


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Old 02-14-2011, 02:48 PM   #33
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1-The hellfire club. I've mentioned this in other threads, so I won't go over it too much again. Basically, the hellfire club wasn't the playboy mansion, and Shaw is not Hugh ****ing Hefner. Emma is not just some playboy bunny whore (though this is an assumption, no evidence on that part)
As you said....this is all conjecture and we don't know how they're being portrayed. They just looked early '60s-chic in the trailer....that's not a bad thing.

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3-Magneto is the only cool character. I know Beast and Havok have their fans, but seriously, all the other characters are c-list at best. Darwin? ****in Azazel?? They could have made this the Magneto origin film, featuring only Xavier and the Hellfire club, and it would make perfect sense. Why purposely screw continuity to add characters very few people care about?
Fans get too bent out of shape on line-ups. Magneto and Xavier are the selling point here. They're slick and entertaining to watch together. Mystique is a great character and Beast is A-list. The others probably will be underdeveloped anyway.

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4-Matthew Vaughn-His comment about telling fans they're wrong. Well **** him. If a fan wants it to stick more closely to the comics, that is their perogative, who is he to say they're "wrong". Also, he said how they are always changing the story and it doesn't make sense. ********. Retcons happen, fairly often even, but I could still easily break down the origin(or at least essence) of both the X-men and the individual characters for you. So yeah, he's "wrong"
Fans need to get over this. He is frank in that you cannot please anybody and there is no clear X-Men narrative. The retcons on Jean Grey and her son with Scott is enough to make someone's head explode. When you throw in alternate realities, time travel and skrulls it just becomes absurd. The X-Men, more than any other major comic book title, insists that writers/directors pick and choose what they like. Comics have done this for nearly 50 years and now Vaughn is doing that too.

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Old 02-14-2011, 02:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Official X:FC Negative Reaction Thread

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I think comic accuracy is paramount, but at the same time I think fans are fickle, and often 'comic accuracy' and 'personal interpretation' become one in the same thing. I think Xavier being a sex addict is a perfect example. It's not as though they've violated the comics by giving him lots of sexual partners, but because fans have a high regard for him having this moral failing is seen as an afront to the character.

Iron Man (and Donner's Superman) did a masteful job of adapting the comics, because even the changes had roots in the source material. The final product felt like a condensed version of the comic, whereas I think TDK and the X-Franchise has failed to replicate the comic book, regardless of how good the movies were.
I agree that it's all about personal interpretation which can be wildly different from one fan to the next. I also don't disagree that TDK & X-franchise aren't perfect comic-book replications but the complaints from the fans are not very strong when the films are very good as long as they don't deviate TOO much. If you go too far or make a ****e film you're gonna get & probably deserve a lot of criticism.

Making significant changes is completely necessary when making these films but it takes skill to ensure the identity of the source material is still strong while making a good film.. or you're just left with a good film. Schindler's List is a great film but I'm not going to be rewatching it 20 times & wasting time speculating about sequels on internet messageboards.

If you exclude the very stupidest comic fans, I think there are many who are sensible with their criticism & know when to speak up & when to shut up. First Class has quality written all over it but Vaughn now needs to make sure it feels like an X-men film, which he's certainly capable of doing.

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:25 PM   #35
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Xavier having romances is one thing, I dont mind that at all as he is a man afterall. Its the use of his powers to enter these relationships is what bothers me. But hey June is a few months away and maybe the end result might work out.

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Old 02-14-2011, 05:20 PM   #36
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What is the big deal about Xavier having hair in this movie? Did Xavier ever say or imply in the other movies that he had been bald his entire life?

Wait a minute, is it this:

"By the time he graduated high school, Charles was completely bald as a side effect of his mutant nature" http://marvel.com/universe/Professor_X

Is it because he apparently hasn't lost his hair at the same time that comic Xavier did?


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Old 02-14-2011, 11:27 PM   #37
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Default Re: Official X:FC Negative Reaction Thread

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I think comic accuracy is paramount, but at the same time I think fans are fickle, and often 'comic accuracy' and 'personal interpretation' become one in the same thing. I think Xavier being a sex addict is a perfect example. It's not as though they've violated the comics by giving him lots of sexual partners, but because fans have a high regard for him having this moral failing is seen as an afront to the character.

Iron Man (and Donner's Superman) did a masterful job of adapting the comics, because even the changes had roots in the source material. The final product felt like a condensed version of the comic, whereas I think TDK and the X-Franchise has failed to replicate the comic book, regardless of how good the movies were.
This is a ridiculous post.

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:30 PM   #38
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I agree that it's all about personal interpretation which can be wildly different from one fan to the next. I also don't disagree that TDK & X-franchise aren't perfect comic-book replications but the complaints from the fans are not very strong when the films are very good as long as they don't deviate TOO much. If you go too far or make a ****e film you're gonna get & probably deserve a lot of criticism.

Making significant changes is completely necessary when making these films but it takes skill to ensure the identity of the source material is still strong while making a good film.. or you're just left with a good film. Schindler's List is a great film but I'm not going to be rewatching it 20 times & wasting time speculating about sequels on internet messageboards.

If you exclude the very stupidest comic fans, I think there are many who are sensible with their criticism & know when to speak up & when to shut up. First Class has quality written all over it but Vaughn now needs to make sure it feels like an X-men film, which he's certainly capable of doing.
Problem being that for the past decade X-Men "fans" haven't agree at all at what makes an "X-Men" film.

I think you make a great film first and foremost, let the rest fall where they may.

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:41 PM   #39
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When Xavier uses his powers to date rape females I'll complain about him being turned into a creep. But I doubt they'll take it that far.

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:45 PM   #40
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I don't get the complaints that this doesn't "feel" like an X-men movie.

It takes place in the 1960's. Of course it's going to have a different feel from an X-men movie set in modern times.

and I'm loving the blue and yellow costumes. That feels alot more like X-men than the black leather outfits.

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Old 02-15-2011, 12:37 AM   #41
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Default Re: Official X:FC Negative Reaction Thread

it makes me wonder why they didn't go with the first class costumes to begin with
honestly they look great

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Old 02-15-2011, 12:50 AM   #42
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it makes me wonder why they didn't go with the first class costumes to begin with
honestly they look great
To be fair I'm pretty sure those costumes are based on the New X-men outfits which were pre-dated by Singer's first X-men movie.

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Old 02-15-2011, 01:05 AM   #43
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I don't get the complaints that this doesn't "feel" like an X-men movie.

It takes place in the 1960's. Of course it's going to have a different feel from an X-men movie set in modern times.

and I'm loving the blue and yellow costumes. That feels alot more like X-men than the black leather outfits.

Its completely the roster for me. X-Men was always my favorite comic and i'm invested in the major characters. With a movie called "First Class" with only one of the first class in it feels "off" to me. You could liken it to an Avengers movie with Ant-Man, Tigra, Mantis, and Vision as the founding members. Sure they were all Avengers at one point but wtf?

I'm loving the young Xavier and Magneto. I'm also glad to see the Hellfire club. I love the "era" feel to it for the 60's as well. Also love that they but the submarine nod in there for Magneto.

There seems to be a lot of good stuff about the movie. Love the trailer. The roster just irks me.

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Old 02-15-2011, 01:19 AM   #44
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I just really wish they didn't call this movie first class, because that seems to be were a lot of complaints are coming from, "how can you call it first class when Cyclops and friends are not in it"

They should have called it X-Men: Xavier and Magneto solve the Cuban missile crisis.

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Old 02-15-2011, 01:40 AM   #45
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I just really wish they didn't call this movie first class, because that seems to be were a lot of complaints are coming from, "how can you call it first class when Cyclops and friends are not in it"

They should have called it X-Men: Xavier and Magneto solve the Cuban missile crisis.





That would be an epic photoshop thread. "What REALLY happened" with the X-Men. Go Forrest Gump and put them in major events since the 60's. I wish I could photoshop worth a crap.

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Old 02-15-2011, 05:02 AM   #46
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Hopefully someone here will do it!

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Old 02-15-2011, 08:15 AM   #47
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I don't get the complaints that this doesn't "feel" like an X-men movie.

It takes place in the 1960's. Of course it's going to have a different feel from an X-men movie set in modern times.

and I'm loving the blue and yellow costumes. That feels alot more like X-men than the black leather outfits.
I was referring to the past X-Films, not the unreleased ones. X-Men FC definitely has more of a comic feel than the previous installments. It's far more ridiculous and far less realistic than X1 or X2.


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Old 02-15-2011, 08:22 AM   #48
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Problem being that for the past decade X-Men "fans" haven't agree at all at what makes an "X-Men" film.
This point is moot because ultimately those fans are not making the movie. Iron Man was my previous example, Donner's Superman is another of films that roughly adapted the comic. The costumes, the general chronology, almost all the characters could be linked back to a comic story and by and large their appearance was preserved. I'm also betting that most fans could identify which films were more comic accurate than others. I also don't think making a good movie trumps comic accuracy. You could conceivably make a good movie which barely resembled the comic and then call it whatever the heck you wanted.

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Old 02-15-2011, 09:43 AM   #49
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My main complaints about this movie:

- Havok's inclusion (Im really interested in his role, but at the same time I feel bad about this decision, specially after the bad role Cyclops had on the trilogy, and now not making Havok his brother).

- The trailer not showing how badass/interesting Emma really is.

- The movie not looking as dark as X1. (Perfect tone from the whole trilogy).

I think that's all.

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Old 02-15-2011, 09:43 AM   #50
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This point is moot because ultimately those fans are not making the movie. Iron Man was my previous example, Donner's Superman is another of films that roughly adapted the comic. The costumes, the general chronology, almost all the characters could be linked back to a comic story and by and large their appearance was preserved. I'm also betting that most fans could identify which films were more comic accurate than others. I also don't think making a good movie trumps comic accuracy. You could conceivably make a good movie which barely resembled the comic and then call it whatever the heck you wanted.
That's a good point. It's a balancing act to make an adaptation that still has all the essential elements of the original.

Unfortunately, the X-Men films have been veering further away from source with each film. The first film's major continuity change was a younger Iceman, meaning he couldn't be part of an earlier team. If they hadn't put Iceman in the story, we could easily imagine that he, Beast and Angel were previous members of the X-Men.

All four existing X-Men films just about drew upon the source material enough to feel like X-Men films.... most of the time.... though there were obvious departures. They have skated dangerously close to the edge on many occasions, some would argue they went over that edge.

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