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Old 03-21-2011, 05:56 PM   #76
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Germany had to leak this because no American Media had the balls, freedom of speech my ass....

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Old 03-21-2011, 06:01 PM   #77
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

To the mod who created this new thread.... I see what you did there

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:14 PM   #78
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Not me....

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:18 PM   #79
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

So there are pictures circulating of the American "kill team" murdering some civies to make it look like the Taliban were responsible.

Did a U.S. 'kill team' go rogue in Afghanistan?

Some are calling it Obama's own "Abu Ghraib".

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:50 PM   #80
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Once again, it is not the atrocity that causes the problem it is the photographs.

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Old 03-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #81
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

U.S. soldiers' 'kill team' killed Afghanis, used body parts in poker games: report

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...#ixzz1HwD8HJPI

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Rogue U.S. soldiers snipped the pinky off an Afghan teen they killed for kicks - and later used it to wage a bet while playing spades, a blockbuster expose reports.

That's one of the shocking stories in a new Rolling Stone magazine expose of an Army "kill team" that targeted innocent Afghan civilians for death.

Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, the squad leader and main target of the Army's ongoing war crimes investigation, allegedly sliced the finger off Gul Mudin - the approximately 15-year-old Afghan that Spc. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes are accused of killing.

"When it came time for their wager, Morlock and Holmes said they would bet a finger," Mark Boal reported MOnday in the magazine. "Then they tossed the finger that Gibbs had sliced from Mudin's body on the card pile."

Seventeen revolting photographs taken by the soldiers - including one of a severed head and another showing a pair of blown off legs - accompany the article by Boal, who won an Oscar for writing "The Hurt Locker" screenplay.

Those awful images were published just days after another batch of gory pictures taken by the soldiers appeared in the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel.

The Pentagon has already condemned the alleged atrocities as "repugnant to us as human beings and contrary to the standards and values of the United States Army," and apologized to the Afghan people "for the distress these photos cause."

Morlock, shown in several pictures holding a dead man's head by the hair, has already pleaded guilty to murder during his court-martial.

The troubled 22-year-old from Wasilla, Alaska - a pal and hockey teammate of Sarah Palin's son, Track - is expected to testify against Gibbs, Holmes and other platoon members.

Fearful of handing a propaganda weapon to the Taliban, Boal reports the Army "launched a massive effort to find every file and pull the pictures out of circulation before they could touch off a scandal on the scale of Abu Ghraib."

Abu Ghraib was the Iraqi prison when U.S. soldiers took pictures of themselves humiliating prisoners.

"By suppressing the photos, however, the Army may also have been trying to keep secret evidence that the killings of civilians went beyond a few men in 3rd Platoon," Boal reported.

It is a violation of Army standards to take photos of dead.

Boal also reports that the bored soldiers blew their minds by smoking copious amounts of hashish and beat up suspected "snitches" who complained.

In one case, Boal reports that after Gibbs directed the beating of one soldier he "reached into his pocket and took out a bit of cloth."

"Unfolding it, he tossed two severed fingers on the floor, with bits of skin still hanging off the bone," Boal reported.

Then Morlock warned the beaten soldier that he would end up like "that guy" if he didn't "shut the hell up."

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Old 03-28-2011, 05:59 PM   #82
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

That's just disgusting...

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To the mod who created this new thread.... I see what you did there

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Old 03-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #83
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

It gets worse.....much much worse.

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Old 03-29-2011, 12:52 AM   #84
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

The accounts sound remarkably similar to what the Soviets did in Afghanistan 30 years ago. I remember watching a documentary on CNN that interviewed a Soviet soldier who openly admitted to killing Afghan civilians for sport and then disemboweling them just to amuse themselves.

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Old 05-02-2011, 04:22 AM   #85
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Now that Bin Laden is dead and the other helpers of 9/11 are the same or sitting in Guantanomo waiting to be tried and then executed, the war in Afghanistan is now over. 9/11 has been well avenged even after a horribly long fight there is no longer a reason to stay at all. The Taliban may return, but they are a no threat to the United States.

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Old 05-02-2011, 02:48 PM   #86
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

I'll be very curious to see how quickly this changes the course in Afghanistan.

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Old 05-02-2011, 05:36 PM   #87
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I'll be very curious to see how quickly this changes the course in Afghanistan.
The Taliban just lost a very big benefactor, lets hope that it changes quick and for the better...

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Old 05-09-2011, 03:24 PM   #88
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Lightbulb Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

UPDATE: BIPARTISAN GROUP OF CONGRESSMEN TO PUSH FOR AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAWAL
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_859488.html

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:28 PM   #89
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

I think its realistic for Obama to star a full pullout that ends by September 2012.

Does this mean that American won then?

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:35 PM   #90
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

There is no winning this war....it is a war on ideology, not an actual army.

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:38 PM   #91
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

If your base point for (insert Charlie Sheen tone here) WINNING is the killing of Bin Laden, then yeah.

If your base point for (insert Charlie Sheen tone here) WINNING is a stable government in Afghanistan, it's a little murky because of the corruption in the Afghan government.

If you're referring to (insert Charlie Sheen tone here) WINNING the 'War on Terror', there is no WINNING because you're fighting a mindset.

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:41 PM   #92
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Afghanistan will never have a stable government, because the different tribes will never put their loyalty of their central government over that of their tribe, it just won't happen....they will always be more loyal to their tribe...

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:43 PM   #93
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

The optimist in me would like to believe otherwise, but the realist in me agrees with you.

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:51 PM   #94
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

History tells me it won't happen....

It is the same problems that plague African countries...Nationalism will always trump Patriotism in these countries...

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:53 PM   #95
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

That's a very good point.

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Old 05-09-2011, 08:06 PM   #96
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

What's the differnce between nationalism and patriotism?

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Old 05-09-2011, 08:40 PM   #97
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

They are very similar, but in a political geography sense, nationalism is loyalty to your nation, as in your particular ethnic group that shares a common language, culture, etc....whereas patriotism is a more general term to use, in that it is more of a loyalty to your country as a whole.

For example: Let's take Uganda in Africa, the Acholi people are more loyal to their people than they are loyal to Uganda. It is very hard for these countries to come to a cohesive coexistence because of their loyalties, not to the central government but to their individual tribe...

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Old 05-09-2011, 11:31 PM   #98
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

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Afghanistan will never have a stable government, because the different tribes will never put their loyalty of their central government over that of their tribe, it just won't happen....they will always be more loyal to their tribe...
no they wont. give them money and they will shut up...

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Old 05-09-2011, 11:34 PM   #99
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Who is they?
Which tribal leader?
All of them? Really?
How much money? How often?
Who's going to come up with this money?
Which tribal leader will lead the country?
Will it even be a tribal leader?
If not, will they trust him enough to follow his lead?
What if he is paid off by a tribal leader?
Who will be there to make sure that the government stays stable free of corruption?
What country do we know of where paying them off has kept the country stable?

Way too many questions for $$$$ to be the simple answer.

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Old 05-10-2011, 02:22 PM   #100
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Default Re: Discussion: The Afghan War Thread II

Afghanistan has evolved out of tribalism to fall into ethnocentrism and religious polarization.

The last leaders to fight over tribal domination was Mirwais Khan Hotaki of the Ghilzai clan and Ahmad Shah Durrani (founder of the Afghan Empire), of the Durrani confederation.

The Soviet-Afghan war (along with the Saur revolution) is what fueled ethnic clashes, and the Taliban solidified those tensions while giving birth to religious polarization.

The Taliban had 95% of the country prior to 9/11 and religious fundamentalists were on a campaign to crush tribal leaders, warlords, foreign spies, and mullah's who were against their puritanical beliefs.

Now what we have in Afghanistan are rich, corrupt, and always feuding warlords, a resilient Taliban and it's backers in Pakistan, and the West with their favored technocrats.

The only way a progressive government is established there is with a support of a strong man in power and in full control. As Karzai sits in his fortified mansion and NATO circles overhead, he's seen as a weak and ineffectual leader by his peers. Since NATO is in the business of nation building, it will have to stay there to maintain power until the Afghan army finally gets its act together and a stronger leader is found to replace Karzai.

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