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Old 06-02-2011, 07:17 AM   #326
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Default Re: MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion

Iron Fist I'm not worried about. Cage seems pretty generic-y super strong action guy though. I'm not sure how interesting a Cage movie can be on it's own, but then I haven't given it much thought either.

If audiences can buy Iron Man working with Thor they can certainly handle a super strong ex-con and a martial arts master running a detective agency, disparate origins or not. It's hardly willy nilly. My main concern with HfH is squeezing in both origins in a single film.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:18 AM   #327
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Luke Cage is a really interesting character. He's basically a community service superhero, trying to clean up his own neighbourhood and help out the community he grew up in. As a juxtaposition to the Avengers, saving the world, I think thats really interesting. Plus work the chip on his shoulder in there, as someone who resents the big, headline grabbing superheroes who do nothing to help the problems close to home for many people, and there you go. Like a beat cop resenting the FBI or something. That could even be something that helps form his bond with Rand, they both want to help people but have a distaste for the 'Heavy Hitters' so they try to do things their own way.

Cage gets written very schizophrenically, walking the line of a stereotype but heart, and core of his story is great.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:25 AM   #328
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Luke Cage is a really interesting character. He's basically a community service superhero, trying to clean up his own neighbourhood and help out the community he grew up in. As a juxtaposition to the Avengers, saving the world, I think thats really interesting. Plus work the chip on his shoulder in there, as someone who resents the big, headline grabbing superheroes who do nothing to help the problems close to home for many people, and there you go. Like a beat cop resenting the FBI or something. That could even be something that helps form his bond with Rand, they both want to help people but have a distaste for the 'Heavy Hitters' so they try to do things their own way.

Cage gets written very schizophrenically, walking the line of a stereotype but heart, and core of his story is great.
Yeah, the community aspect is pretty key. I'd expect that to figure heavily. My view of Cage was diminished somewhat by that terrible 90's comic series that I can't quite erase from memory.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:33 AM   #329
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Yeah, the community aspect is pretty key. I'd expect that to figure heavily. My view of Cage was diminished somewhat by that terrible 90's comic series that I can't quite erase from memory.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:35 AM   #330
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That's why I think they need a Luke Cage movie, to finally do him justice. His character has been so muddied in the comics that I don't even think Marvel fully know who he is anymore (as far as 616 continuity goes). Starting froms scratch with him in the MCU would be a great chance to redeem that.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:36 AM   #331
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The portrayal of Luke Cage is pretty much the only thing that even approaches being good that Bendis has done with the Avengers books. I like the family man aspect, quite rare for a superhero really.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:38 AM   #332
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Yeah, he has some aspects of the personality right for the most part, that kinda disgruntled stubborn side, the family man, passionate about ordinary people etc. But sadly, like all Bendis written stuff, once people are fighting, all characters lose their unique qualities and just turn into brainless one liner machines, all written in the same voice.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:45 AM   #333
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Heh yea. Can't stand Bendisvengers.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:49 AM   #334
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You know, i've really grown tired of fight scenes in comic books. For the most part, they just seem like one of the main features that haven't advanced along with anything else. I cringe every time heroes fight one another for NO reason these days. That happens ALL the freaking time when they fight for 10 minutes just for the sake of it, THEN talk and realise they are all on the same side. I pretty much choose my comics based on what looks like it has the best character interaction these days.

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Old 06-02-2011, 07:55 AM   #335
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I like inventive fight scenes. But when it's just characters punching each other through walls or something cliche like that... it just bores me.

The thing is, no matter how well drawn or shot an action scene is, whether in comics or films or whatever, if there is no emotion, you don't care about the characters involved or what is at stake... it all just doesn't mean anything. You could have a spectacularly drawn splash page, or an amazingly shot action scene with life like CGI... but if there is nothing to back that up? Why should I care?

It's like when people go on about crappy action films "But the action scenes were amazing!". I mean, so what? It takes more than cool special effects to entertain me. The worst case of this in recent memory was Battle LA. It had all these great action set pieces etc. But I was just sooooo bored.

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Old 06-02-2011, 08:04 AM   #336
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As much as I hate to admit it, Mark Millar can do a good fight scene every now and then. He too falls victim to teh fight scene cliches though, with some scenes so painfully unbalanced it's like fan fiction. I like how Warren Ellis does his fight scenes. Basically he just uses them to punctuate a whole novel of brooding, cerebral character stuff and the fights never go on too long and not heaps of lame dialogue.

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Old 06-02-2011, 09:24 AM   #337
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Default Re: MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion

They could introduce Iron Fist in the Dr Strange movie and Luke Cage in Avengers II or Shield. See how they play and then make a Heroes for Hire movie.


I'm not sure they shouldn't introduce them in NY when they reboot Punisher and spin them off from there. Marvel Knights style. They could still tie it loosely into the MMU without it being a true crossover. Make it more local, intimate, whereas Avengers is epic and huge.

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Old 06-03-2011, 11:15 PM   #338
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I dunno, I think they're two characters who need to be established first, especially if they want to be taken seriously.
Heroes for Hire would be very easy for general audiences to swallow. In fact, they'd be easier for them to instantly grasp that quite a number of more complex characters. Big ultra-strong black dude buddies up with a kung-fu master as private detectives...??? Yeah, we've seen these stereotypes a billion times in every action movie that came out in the 70s.

That's a lot easier for mainstreamers to understand than, say, a whole boatload of mutants with powers that you can't actually describe without pulling out a college-level text on physics, calculus, trig and/or quantitative biochemistry.

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Old 06-04-2011, 12:23 AM   #339
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Are you serious? They could have made Cap just another action hero too, right? Iron Man could have been a cheap Bruce Wayne knock off. They could have had the same approach to ANY Marvel character, if they wanted a cheap, quick phone in. That is NOT how Marvel have shown they do their films, and it would not do the characters the justice they deserve. The ultra strong black dude and the kung fu guy? Jesus.

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Old 06-04-2011, 10:45 AM   #340
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Ahhh, nothing like fanboy hyperbole.

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Old 06-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #341
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I for one think Luke Cage, Shang-Chi and Iron Fist would do best in a heroes for hire film, rather than in seperate films on their own. It'd be like the superhero version of Lethal Weapon.

Now if we can onlyhear Luke Cage say, "I'm getting too old for this s***."

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Old 06-04-2011, 12:27 PM   #342
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I'll take fanboy hyperbole over fanboy indifference any day. One involves someone being overly passionate, the other is someone simply not caring enough.

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Old 06-04-2011, 12:31 PM   #343
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Also, I never said I was against a Heroes for Hire movie, just that they are two characters who would need to have their origins established first if they want to given justice. This is all irrelevant since that's what Marvel is doing anyway and I trust their judgement pretty happily so far as far as the MCU is concerned.

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Old 06-04-2011, 12:34 PM   #344
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Well I want to see an Iron Fist solo film. I preferred Fraction/Brubakers run to any previous Heroes for Hire run.

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Old 06-04-2011, 01:53 PM   #345
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Also, I never said I was against a Heroes for Hire movie, just that they are two characters who would need to have their origins established first if they want to given justice. This is all irrelevant since that's what Marvel is doing anyway and I trust their judgement pretty happily so far as far as the MCU is concerned.
there are quick ways of telling an origin. you can establish character then use quick flashbacks to key events that could explain the character somewhat.

for luke cage the first time he gets shot they could suddenly show experimentation on him. that wouldn't show everything about him but with other similar techniques the story of how he came to be can be told much quicker.

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Old 06-04-2011, 01:58 PM   #346
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The reason I think they need their stories given justice has only been proven for me in this thread. So many people, including Marvel fans, only see Luke Cage as a generic strong token black guy. For him in a film, they're going to have to be fighting that image too.... Now sure, you can establish his personality in a Heroes for Hire movie, but doing his power story without it seeming hokey and superhero cliche would be a little tough. Now add to that a partner with a completely different type of power, mystical kung fu powers? How do you explain that with a simple flashback and not have it be ridiculous?

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Old 06-04-2011, 02:05 PM   #347
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well you establish previous ironfists and that this is a legacy deal. can be done as quick as the backstory in thor.

i do think it is often better to be in the moment with the characters as their life changes tho. just saying it's possible.

anyone know the status of blade? i wonder if marvel studios will do something with him at some point.

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Old 06-04-2011, 02:12 PM   #348
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I'd spend the first half of the movie introducing the villain and two heroes separately. Halfway through the heroes meet and realize they have a common foe and help each other out. At the end they realize they work well as a team and decide to become heroes for hire. The sequel would be the actual heroes for hire movie from beginning to end.

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Old 06-04-2011, 02:18 PM   #349
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^That could work. It'd basically be what XMFC would have been if it had just been a Chuck & Erik movie.

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Old 06-04-2011, 02:35 PM   #350
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The difference there is that technically Xavier and Magneto fit under the same origin story of mutation. You accept the concept of mutation as what gives people abilities and then every thing else can be character based. Having two characters with very different power origins both need the proper attention, as well as explaining what those characters are about.

What I think could potentially work quite well, is if a Luke Cage and Iron Fist solo get made around the same time, you could have the characters meet at some point in each film (perhaps at a stage that occurs in both films, like meeting in prison or something) and then have a Heroes for Hire movie, and have what you kind of described before, except without the need to rush origins into the beginning.

It's not just about the stories either (even though Iron Fist has a very unique and interesting back story) but also giving each hero the proper portrayal. They both have very different tones and styles to them. Iron Fist is wreathed in mysticism, and could be viewed like a great, modern merging of classic Kung Fu movies and Superhero movies, with interesting locations and characters. Luke Cage needs to be more urban, and quite gritty, with a certain amount of real world risks, people overdosing, addicts, the seedy, unglamorous side of the Marvel New York, which is a very important part of the Marvel universe in itself, especially to characters like DD, Moon Knight and the Punisher. I just don't understand why you wouldn't WANT these characters to get the full Marvel film flesh out treatment if you actually cared about them.

The XMFC comparison was an interesting one, because compare that to X-Men 1, a film where all these characters were already established with no real origin. Sure it was a fun film, but how shallow does Prof X seem in X1 compared to him in First Class? Ian McKellan was great, but the level of intensity, drive, motivation and pure depth that is brought to his character in First Class? How could you deny that as a good thing for these characters?

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