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Old 05-29-2011, 03:42 PM   #51
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

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1) superman is not a romance story with action
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

1. Don't treat or hold Superman up to the standards of a modern day Christ Figure

2. Have Jor-el's and Lara's only reason for sending their son to Earth be because of the fact that they wanted to save their son from certain death instead of it being because Jor el wanted Superman to become Earth's greatest hero. Clark and Clark alone should be the person that comes up and decides on that idea alone.

3. Don't make Jor el some all powerful and all knowing entity that dominates Superman's live in some form of way

4. Don't use CGI figures for a flying superman unless the stunt is too dangerous for the actor, or for extreme long shots

5. Granted, I'm a fan of the Clark and Lois relationship, but it shouldn't DOMINATE the story like previous films have, but in the same time, it shouldn't be as flat as Nolan's Batman stories. There has to be a right balance.

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Old 05-29-2011, 08:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

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1. Don't treat or hold Superman up to the standards of a modern day Christ Figure

2. Have Jor-el's and Lara's only reason for sending their son to Earth be because of the fact that they wanted to save their son from certain death instead of it being because Jor el wanted Superman to become Earth's greatest hero. Clark and Clark alone should be the person that comes up and decides on that idea alone.

3. Don't make Jor el some all powerful and all knowing entity that dominates Superman's live in some form of way

4. Don't use CGI figures for a flying superman unless the stunt is too dangerous for the actor, or for extreme long shots

5. Granted, I'm a fan of the Clark and Lois relationship, but it shouldn't DOMINATE the story like previous films have, but in the same time, it shouldn't be as flat as Nolan's Batman stories. There has to be a right balance.
I agree with that completely.

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Old 05-30-2011, 02:09 AM   #54
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

1) Lois Lane should NOT be Superman's main motivation or concern in life. Superman is not a heroic Travis Bickle. He loves Lois, cares for Lois, saves her when she gets in over her head, but Superman's primary concern and his raison d'Ítre is to help people.

2) NO CORNY LEX LUTHOR. Lex is a serious character no matter what the interpretation and should not be campy.

3) Do follow Reeve's sincerity. Cavill should not copy Christopher Reeve's performance like Brandon Routh did (or was asked to do), but he should try to be as sincere and as respectful to the character as Reeve was. A fantasy/superhero film series hinges on the portrayal of the main character, and the one great thing about the Reeve movies was Reeve himself. Why was Star Wars so huge? Because Mark Hamill was completely and totally sincere as Luke Skywalker. If the main character is badly acted and seems corny or fake, the movie will fail.

4) Use the source material. Superman had almost 50 years of great comics from 1938-1985. They need to use that wealth of material for inspiration. Superman thrived when there was always something interesting and amazing happening in it. The new Superman movie should be on a level of wonder surpassing anything yet in superhero movies, even Thor or Green Lantern. No more Hoth copycat Krypton-we need a Krypton that makes Avatar look like a NES game.

5) No Jor-El AI. The last we need to see or hear from Jor-El is him launching the rocket. Anything else we see of Jor-El or Lara needs to be recording from when they were alive if they use the tablet idea from Birthright or the memory device from Pre-Crisis. But Superman has no more business running to the FOS for advice from a Jor-El hologram than he does flying home to Smallville for pie and advice from Pa and Ma Kent. This is part of why both sets of parents need to be killed off.


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Old 05-30-2011, 10:12 AM   #55
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

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1) Lois Lane should NOT be Superman's main motivation or concern in life.
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2) NO CORNY LEX LUTHOR. Lex is a serious character no matter what the interpretation and should not be campy.


4) Use the source material. Superman had almost 50 years of great comics from 1938-1985.... The new Superman movie should be on a level of wonder surpassing anything yet in superhero movies, even Thor or Green Lantern. No more Hoth copycat Krypton-we need a Krypton that makes Avatar look like a NES game.

5) No Jor-El AI. The last we need to see or hear from Jor-El is him launching the rocket. Anything else we see of Jor-El or Lara needs to be recording from when they were alive if they use the tablet idea from Birthright or the memory device from Pre-Crisis. But Superman has no more business running to the FOS for advice from a Jor-El hologram than he does flying home to Smallville for pie and advice from Pa and Ma Kent. This is part of why both sets of parents need to be killed off.
Agree on these here.

Supes should the be the "Wow that looks amazing" movie and set the bar.

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1. Don't treat or hold Superman up to the standards of a modern day Christ Figure
Quote:
Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post

2. Have Jor-el's and Lara's only reason for sending their son to Earth be because of the fact that they wanted to save their son from certain death instead of it being because Jor el wanted Superman to become Earth's greatest hero. Clark and Clark alone should be the person that comes up and decides on that idea alone.

3. Don't make Jor el some all powerful and all knowing entity that dominates Superman's live in some form of way

4. Don't use CGI figures for a flying superman unless the stunt is too dangerous for the actor, or for extreme long shots

5. Granted, I'm a fan of the Clark and Lois relationship, but it shouldn't DOMINATE the story like previous films have, but in the same time, it shouldn't be as flat as Nolan's Batman stories. There has to be a right balance.
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1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by storyteller View Post
SUPERMAN IS NOT A ROMANCE STORY WITH ACTION

No singer Superman is not about the romance. Sure Lois is his girl but overall the best Superman stories are actually the ones where she doesn't even participate other then to figure out crap for the audience


3) Lex needs to be more then a land tycoon. Honestly if Lex gave himself Super powers and engaged in a fight with Superman, we wouldn't complain about being sick of Lex.

4) Im iffy on Bosworth actually. Was it really bad acting/ lack of chemistry or was it the fact the character was written to be stupid, selfish, dishonest, and weak? Lois Lane isn't the women who will tell a man that this kid is his son when he isn't. Lois Lane would string a guy a long while she's in love with another bozo. Lois Lane isn't the woman who drags a kid along on a potentially dangerous assignment even if they clearly had all the abilities of Superman(Chris Kent in the comics). I blame the writers for just making an unlikable Lois.
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The supervillain has to be pure evil. People have to be terrified by Zod/Brainiac/Zaora and their cruelty, and say "Thank God, Superman has come".


Yes!

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1.
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Superman is NOT a stalker
Thank You WTF was that?

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I'm one of the biggest fans of Superman Returns but
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Originally Posted by Sabaoth View Post

1) Let' the movie start with a bang and not a whimper.

I'm sorry, the opening scenes of Superman Returns were horrific; Superman's rocket crash landing and our first look at the man himself was a limp, gray garbed Routh.

2) Do not include scenes of the villain testing his plans on small scale model replicas.

People, remember how much the horrible train set scene slowed down the already low pace of Superman Returns?


3) No anti-climatic final act.

After all the crap that they did to him, Superman does not get to confront Lex and his goons and let them have it; instead Supes goes to the hospital and then gets better and leaves. That whole hospital scene seemed like it belonged in a made for tv movie instead of the big screen!

4) No crap CGI.
Remember the ending of Superman Returns, when a completely unnecessary CGI Routh was used as he flew off into space?
We all want that Beat Down that we as followers of the comics and animated shows to be realized and shown to the rest of the world.

We want to connect with him in the sky; we want to fly with him. We can't do that without seeing and feeling like its really him up there.


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no mam...no it's not. we need to see this or else he's JUST a boyscout. We need to see that Superman's definitely not a pushover....
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YES!!!

they should take several cues from Star Trek. the first scene of that movie set the mood for the rest of the film and made it very well known that it was a different type of Star Trek film than what was previously done. Snyder and posse need to follow that same formula....Birthright style (the destruction of Krypton with Jor-El and Lara's sacrifice).
My thoughts exactly on all of these. I would like to add:

1. Give the title character, who the actual movie is about, More dialog (let him say more than two lame sentences to the main villain); More Substance. I want to feel like I'm watching Superman not Superboy.

2. Superman in Action: Let him be smart and creative in his plans of rescue. Show us that he has too much on his plate and that he can't save Everyone. Show us how much that would tear him apart. Let us see him fail, be over whelmed (not just whelmed ). Then show him bet all odds and succeed epically.... I want that "Rocky" feeling.

3. Clark at the Planet should be respected as a reporter by all but misunderstood. Not a goof. I want there to be some suspension of him. Like, "Where the hell is Clark? How does he get away with never having to be on time or even Here, the dude is Always Sick". Something to that effect.

4. Give us something to watch over and over with that feeling of, "Damn, I can't wait to watch it again". It can be done... It really can.

Finally, give us a Superman to aspire to. Have us walking out of the movie wishing we Were him, had his powers, did the things his done, and been the places he has. Let the world and the cynics and haters of Superman see why we think he's worth his title as the best, the first, and the coolest superhero of all time.

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Old 05-30-2011, 05:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

- Less cheese. Had enough of the clumsy Clark and the overly dramatic Lex, it's getting old. The animated movies have more or less learnt this lesson.

- No CGI shirt rips. Can you believe they did that for Superman Returns? It's the most absurd use of CGI I have ever seen. A complete waste. The Smallville shirt-rip was more like it.

- More closeups of Superman actually flying and not in CGI. Distant shots fair enough. The way Superman Returns did this was criminal. So many closeups you could see were blatant CGI and fooled no-one. Superman: The Movie was more convincing in this department despite is dated visual effects. As an example, Superman's flying sequence when he grabs hold of the missile, brilliant shot and the scene right after Lois feints on the roof of the Daily planet after being rescued. One of my favourite flying moments in the movie. Flying towards and past the camera, awesome!

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Old 05-30-2011, 05:26 PM   #57
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Someone already mentioned this in another thread but I would love a good reason to be given as to why Superman loves Lois. Out of all the women on earth what made him fall head over heels with this one woman. I don’t think previous films ever touched on that, I would also like a some what likeable Lois Lane.

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Old 05-30-2011, 08:25 PM   #58
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Someone already mentioned this in another thread but I would love a good reason to be given as to why Superman loves Lois. Out of all the women on earth what made him fall head over heels with this one woman. I donít think previous films ever touched on that, I would also like a some what likeable Lois Lane.
Well Snyder did say that this was one of the qualities that he was looking for when casting Lois, and he said that out of all of the women that auditioned for the role, that Amy Adams best suited that vision.


Granted, I'm sure there'll be romance this film, but not the kind that makes it into a melodramatic film like SR was, I'm hoping that it'll give a partial good reason as to why Clark prefers Lois out of everyone else.

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Old 05-30-2011, 10:19 PM   #59
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I'm one of the biggest fans of Superman Returns but

1) Let' the movie start with a bang and not a whimper.

I'm sorry, the opening scenes of Superman Returns were horrific; Superman's rocket crash landing and our first look at the man himself was a limp, gray garbed Routh.
If Singer didn't cut out that Krypton journey sequence it would of made more since why Superman was dressed that way to the audience. That's one of the things that hurt the movie for me. He cut a big scene (that supposedly cost $10 million if I'm not mistaken) that showed what Supes was doing for those five years he was away from Earth. No wonder people had a problem connecting with Supes. B/c of Singer cutting out the Krypton journey the audience didn't get to share the experience with him. Of him having hope that his planet is somehow still out there only to find out that there was nothing but pieces of krytonite left. Which we would already know knowing Supes' origin. Also his ship crashed landed on Earth and he showed up looking very weak. So something definitely happened on his way back to Earth. But we'll never know that now. Wasn't very smart of Singer to cut that scene. SR would've started off better with that scene put back in, imo.

Also Singer didn't want Superman's traditional uniform revealed yet. He had the gray uniform on b/c he was going to be away from the sun. Therefore he won't have his powers. He isn't really Supes without his powers. So he didn't need his uniform. Plus if he ran into any Krytonians. They would recognise his emblem.

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- No CGI shirt rips. Can you believe they did that for Superman Returns? It's the most absurd use of CGI I have ever seen. A complete waste. The Smallville shirt-rip was more like it.
The reason that the first shirt rip was CG because he originally wasn't suppose to have his Superman uniform under his CK clothes. Clark still hadn't decided if he wanted to be Superman again. He originally was suppose to change in the closet where Perry's cardboard cutout was at. His suit was in the suitcase by it. I think they cut it b/c of pacing so they had to CG the suit for the shirt rip. That's why it edits quickly to the next scene after he rips his shirt open. With that said the elevator shirt rip was cool, imo. One of the best I've seen in the live action films.


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Old 05-31-2011, 02:09 AM   #60
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I think another important lesson to learn is to actually the GA a solid reason as to why Superman/Clark chose to do what he does best, which is becoming Earth's greatest hero.

As much as I enjoy Donner's first film, along with Smallville; I really want to see a great live adaption of the character that gives us a good reason as to why Clark became Superman, one that doesn't deal with it being because his dead father told him it was his destiny.

I'm hoping that if this is a origin story, that takes liberties from Birthright, where Clark travels the world, that it's from seeing the troubles of the world firsthand that gives him the motivation to step up to the plate and become Superman.

Also, I think another important issue that should be shown is that unlike the Reeve/Routh films, where jor el constantly says that Superman is to lead humans to a way that'll fulfill their strong capacity for innate goodness...why not actually SHOW IT as well?

I mean one thing that separates Superman from most heroes is that his actions and existence alone gives people a lot of hope and motivates them towards doing good onto others and such, etc. So I'd like to see that as well. Hell, Sam Raimi was able to show that theme better in his first two spiderman films.

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Old 06-04-2011, 03:55 AM   #61
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Someone already mentioned this in another thread but I would love a good reason to be given as to why Superman loves Lois. Out of all the women on earth what made him fall head over heels with this one woman. I donít think previous films ever touched on that, I would also like a some what likeable Lois Lane.
??? did u watch STM???
the first time clark and lois met... lois touched him and he touched her back. right feel. lol

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Old 06-04-2011, 05:04 AM   #62
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

One thing I've noticed with Snyder is he likes to make the character practical, and the effect special...

That's what I want for Superman, do everything as practical as possible... Make the beautiful backgrounds gorgeous CGI and lay Superman over it in a very realistic way. Snyder is good at that and I hope he impresses us all...

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Old 06-04-2011, 05:07 AM   #63
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??? did u watch STM???
the first time clark and lois met... lois touched him and he touched her back. right feel. lol
There doesn't have to be a reason... They're fated to be together... It's up to the writers to make the vehicle for that...

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Old 06-18-2011, 05:54 PM   #64
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IMO if any lesson is learned it should be not to copy from the previous films, like someone mentioned this isn't 1978 and what was ok then isn't now.
With Superman you have a dead franchise which no one under 25 give a crap about, I have two sons one is 17 and the other 3 and neither of them have any interest in Superman but like X-Men, Batman, Spiderman etc.
There is only really two ways to go about making a reboot, either make it for kids or go the realistic route and set out to make a great movie not a great superman movie. The second way would need defined powers and a new costume, SR's suit was terrible and the audience isn't going to buy the old style.
To be honest even if this film makes decent money the whole superman franchise is still on life support.

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Old 06-18-2011, 08:08 PM   #65
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IMO if any lesson is learned it should be not to copy from the previous films, like someone mentioned this isn't 1978 and what was ok then isn't now.
With Superman you have a dead franchise which no one under 25 give a crap about, I have two sons one is 17 and the other 3 and neither of them have any interest in Superman but like X-Men, Batman, Spiderman etc.
There is only really two ways to go about making a reboot, either make it for kids or go the realistic route and set out to make a great movie not a great superman movie. The second way would need defined powers and a new costume, SR's suit was terrible and the audience isn't going to buy the old style.
To be honest even if this film makes decent money the whole superman franchise is still on life support.
Agreed with most of it. Though in regards to the costume, I wouldn't say that being somewhat traditional to the look would be a bad thing. I mean look how well X men FC and Spiderman 1-3 did with their costumes.

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Old 06-18-2011, 08:38 PM   #66
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Lesson to learn: don't save your ideas for a sequel, put all your energy into this one, because the chance might be high that you will not be able to go "all Wrath of Khan about it".

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Old 06-18-2011, 10:12 PM   #67
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i'm all on board for supes punching something.

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Old 06-18-2011, 11:42 PM   #68
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IMO if any lesson is learned it should be not to copy from the previous films, like someone mentioned this isn't 1978 and what was ok then isn't now.
With Superman you have a dead franchise which no one under 25 give a crap about, I have two sons one is 17 and the other 3 and neither of them have any interest in Superman but like X-Men, Batman, Spiderman etc.
There is only really two ways to go about making a reboot, either make it for kids or go the realistic route and set out to make a great movie not a great superman movie. The second way would need defined powers and a new costume, SR's suit was terrible and the audience isn't going to buy the old style.
To be honest even if this film makes decent money the whole superman franchise is still on life support.
well, SR didn't do good not because of the suit. it's mostly because the story isn't appealing to kids, girls, adults or fans. it might be appealing to old folks and woman though. :P

if the story sucks, not even chris reeve or super duper special effect can save a superman movie.

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Old 06-19-2011, 12:33 AM   #69
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Absolutely no humor whatsoever! These movies should NEVER be fun! I want Superman to be torture porn! I want Pa Kent to abuse the hell out of Clark until his powers manifest, at which point Clark burns him to death with his heat vision in a fit of rage!

Then, guilt ridden, Clark runs away to Metropolis, the most vile, crime-ridden city on earth. Mass murderers roam the streets killing innocent people at will because all of the cops are too chickensh** to do anything.

So Clark dons the big black S, a blood red cloak and a hockey mask and becomes Superman, the Avenger of Darkness. Using his powers of flight, heat vision, super strength and death breath, Superman will have his vengeance in this life or the next.

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Old 06-19-2011, 01:01 AM   #70
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So Eli Roth's Superman? Awesome idea Row lol.

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Old 06-19-2011, 01:17 AM   #71
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There's a huge difference between appropriate humor and bad humor.

I cringe at times in STM when it tries to be funny, i.e. Miss Tessmacher the bimbo, Otis being an idiot with an IQ below 32 (Why in the hell would Lex hire him?), or Lex being an over-dramatic fool who's lacking a single intimidation bone in his body. It's just so cheesy that I'm uncomfortable, even embarrassed, to be watching it. Spiderman 3 is another ridiculously painful film to watch for its pathetic attempts at humor, i.e. "emo" Tobey Maguire dancing down the street.

IM and TDK do the humor correctly, as do many other movies, but I'm specifically mentioning the comic book genre. It's classy, not over the top, not cheesy, and it's in good taste. It's actually funny. Entertained I smile in the theater, rather than cringe in my seat. I'm all for that humor. Just please don't make it cheap.

Make a damn good film, and the rest will fall into place.

EDIT: Now this isn't a comic-book movie, but The Fighter did it correctly. Bale jumping out the window was ace, as were the Lowell sisters. That's intelligent adult humor, not fart jokes, testicle-punching, or corny ridiculous behavior looking for cheap laughs. Keep that with SpongeBob.


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Old 06-19-2011, 01:44 AM   #72
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There's a huge difference between appropriate humor and bad humor.

I cringe at times in STM when it tries to be funny, i.e. Miss Tessmacher the bimbo, Otis being an idiot with an IQ below 32 (Why in the hell would Lex hire him?), or Lex being an over-dramatic fool who's lacking a single intimidation bone in his body. It's just so cheesy that I'm uncomfortable, even embarrassed, to be watching it. Spiderman 3 is another ridiculously painful film to watch for its pathetic attempts at humor, i.e. "emo" Tobey Maguire dancing down the street.

IM and TDK do the humor correctly, as do many other movies, but I'm specifically mentioning the comic book genre. It's classy, not over the top, not cheesy, and it's in good taste. It's actually funny. Entertained I smile in the theater, rather than cringe in my seat. I'm all for that humor. Just please don't make it cheap.

Make a damn good film, and the rest will fall into place.

EDIT: Now this isn't a comic-book movie, but The Fighter did it correctly. Bale jumping out the window was ace, as were the Lowell sisters. That's intelligent adult humor, not fart jokes, testicle-punching, or corny ridiculous behavior looking for cheap laughs. Keep that with SpongeBob.
I agree with you, though I think you're being a tad harsh on Superman '78. The humor there is goofy, but consider the time it was made. And it was a serious film when it needed to be.

I'm just annoyed by fans who seem to treat ANY humor or simply lighthearted moments in these movies as blasphemy.

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Old 06-19-2011, 02:12 AM   #73
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Absolutely no humor whatsoever! These movies should NEVER be fun! I want Superman to be torture porn! I want Pa Kent to abuse the hell out of Clark until his powers manifest, at which point Clark burns him to death with his heat vision in a fit of rage!

Then, guilt ridden, Clark runs away to Metropolis, the most vile, crime-ridden city on earth. Mass murderers roam the streets killing innocent people at will because all of the cops are too chickensh** to do anything.

So Clark dons the big black S, a blood red cloak and a hockey mask and becomes Superman, the Avenger of Darkness. Using his powers of flight, heat vision, super strength and death breath, Superman will have his vengeance in this life or the next.
If it's rated NC-17 I'm all for it!!

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:25 AM   #74
KyleDW2
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

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Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore View Post
Lesson to learn: don't save your ideas for a sequel, put all your energy into this one, because the chance might be high that you will not be able to go "all Wrath of Khan about it".
This might be the biggest lesson any movie can learn from Superman Returns. Never assume a sequel. If you want to lay seeds for a sequel, fine, but make them subtle. The movie itself needs to be considered a one and done. Assume that this is it.

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Old 06-19-2011, 03:21 PM   #75
hopefuldreamer
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Default Re: lessons to learn from previous movies

1. Make your villain interesting and threatening, and their plan exciting, relevant and realistic.

2. Give Superman a personality... a human personality, that the audience can relate with... even Thor, who spent his whole life on Asgard, manages to have a sense of humour, wit and opinion. I think Clark should too.

3. Get Lois Lane right. The kind of girl that every woman in the audience can relate too, can look up too and the kind of girl that every guy in the audience thinks 'yeah, i'd fall in love with her too' (among other things, yeah I know )

4. Do not ignore the origin, but don't drag it out like a 'this is your life' special. Show parts of the origin we've never seen before, use flashbacks, make things a bit different.

5. Remember that it is 40 years since STM... it is time to move on. This includes costume design, the characterisation of Clark the bumbler and Lex the land stealer, and the theme.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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