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Old 08-13-2014, 09:41 AM   #1
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Default Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

After 'Avengers' and 'Guardians of the Galaxy', one must ask:

Is Marvel shooting themselves in the foot with Thanos? We've gotten brief glimpses at him over those 2 films, and in each case neither gave audiences (hardcore and casual alike) much insight into who he is.


Enter Darkseid.


Now it is widely expected, and very likely, that Darkseid (arguably DC's biggest bad and the inspiration for Thanos) will be making his debut in 2017's Justice League film (a year before Thanos is set to appear in full force in Avengers 3), and possible recur from then on.

So, is Marvel doing the right thing by making Thanos feel like an "all bark, no bite" character ahead of A3? That is compared to Darkseid, who will debut in grand fashion, taking on the likes of Superman and Batman before Thanos throws a punch?

Do they need approach Thanos differently heading into the beginning of Phase 3?

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Old 08-13-2014, 09:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

obviously not.

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Old 08-13-2014, 10:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

and even if one were to agree with your premise that Thanos is "all bark and no bite", who's to say Darkseid is going to be so amazing??
If we're judging based off of MoS and Snyder's other work, I wouldn't get my hopes up about him either.

at this point it's just wayy too early to judge, we haven't even seen what Thanos can really do.
I suspect it will be fantastic when we do

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Old 08-13-2014, 10:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

Yeah I wouldn't worry to much, seeing as Thanos has been in sights for years I think they have had more than enough time to pull it off right.
Marvel take it easy and have built this character up for quite some time now, if DC are gonna throw Darkseid into their first JL movie, that's a rush job for me, who then do you put in JL2?

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Old 08-13-2014, 10:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I prefer the slow build up of Thanos appearing in various films that will ultimately lead to an epic showdown in Avengers. This is actually something I always wanted rather than seeing them bust their load giving us a Thanos beatdown of some poor character in these early films. Set the story up and all the other elements surrounding this mysterious figure and the pay off will be surprisingly better for it.

Besides, he will make more appearances where he will likely get his butt off that thrown to wreak some havoc.

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Old 08-13-2014, 11:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I think the main problem some people have with Thanos is that they're projecting Darkseid's character onto him, and are therefore disappointed when the former doesn't live up to it. Thanos' perceived inaction and the ambiguity of his schemes at this point in the story are true to HIS character. And as for Darkseid's supposed grand debut as the Justice League's first threat, it'll just be like Cena beating Lesnar in Extreme Rules a while back: just a complete waste of a great heel by making him job on his first run with the heroes. At least with Lesnar there was a possibility that he'd have another crack at Cena, where as Darkseid like most superhero heels will probably be one-and-done. If Darkseid's live action adaptation is anything at all like Justice League: War, then we're in for a whole lot of suck.

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Old 08-13-2014, 11:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I think of all the studios in the game, WB/DC definitely has the best chance of challenging Marvel so I wouldn't underestimate them. Having said that, it's all conjecture at this stage as to what they have in store for Darkseid, etc. Meanwhile, Marvel is doing an absolutely fantastic job of world building. They don't need to second guess themselves or get cold feet over what they imagine the competition might be doing. They have a vision. They need to stick to their plan and not rush things.

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Old 08-13-2014, 01:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

Have to agree with the other posters, Marvel just need to worry about what they are doing nothing else. If as expected Thanos is the big bad in Avengers 3 it will mean the culmination of 10 years and 16 films. They just need to get it right.
At the end of the day it will be Iron Man/Cap/Thor etc... that people will care about and with the very genuine possibility that one or two could actually die in this film is what makes the stakes so high. We might have all shed a tear at we are groot but could you imagine Tony Stark taking a hit and knowing that Robert Downey Jr will never again play the role?

How can Darkseid or DC compare with that when they have had all of 300 minutes to gain our affection?

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Old 08-13-2014, 02:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

no.

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Old 08-13-2014, 04:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

If Darkseid is introduced and defeated inside a single film, that will come off as worse. So far, Thanos is shown to be somebody who people turn to when they want to achieve a planet-wide goal (rule a planet, destroy a planet). He has shown to be helpful without being shown to be defeated. That helps his position rather than hurts it. When he does take off the kids' gloves and flexes his muscles, I think he'll seem more formidable than if he had just came out swinging and is defeated in 2 and a half hours.

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Old 08-13-2014, 07:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I'll bite.

Yes, they are. Marvel failed to make Thanos intimidating physically, socially or intellectually, and his 'starways with blood' threat was hollow, pointless and a bit hokey. They dropped the ball. Thanos was more interesting at the end of Avengers, imho.

Here's the thing though... DC is way on the other side of the court. Marvel has plenty time to pick it up, in AoU, in GOtG2, in Thor3 before Darkseid has anything of use to say. As said before, if they do a JL:War, Darkseid is a jobber, not worthy to be compared with the guy who conned his way into the Infinity Stones. If they stretch him out over a trilogy (not bloody likely), then he'll have just peeked his head out while Thanos is murdering half the cosmos.

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Old 08-13-2014, 07:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

No. This type of build has been proven to work before (ex. Blofeld, Emperor Palpatine). And Darkseid won't matter because Thanos has already appeared. If anything, he'll look like a Thanos ripoff to the general public.

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Old 08-13-2014, 07:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

Ffs, this thread. Alas this what a message board is for I guess. Walks out with head slumped and shaking side to side.

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Old 08-13-2014, 11:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

By the time he comes around he'll probably be so overhyped he'll be a letdown, that's a problem with busing and building expectations. Further their track record with memorable villains isn't good

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Old 08-14-2014, 12:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

Marvel is smart to be introducing each of the Infinity Gems little by little, and also gradually revealing Thanos and his schemes with each passing MCU movie. I suspect that Phase III will have Thanos in a more proactive role, and he will start acquiring those gems and maybe even reveal his master plan of invading Earth. By the time he steals the Infinity Gauntlets from Odin's Vault, the GA will be hotly anticipating the final showdown between him and Avengers, Guardians, and other MCU heroes. On the other hand, if WB has Darkseid as the very first JL villain, he will just job to the heroes without any victories beforehand, and who will they use as an encore for the sequel? Marvel is wise for using Loki to Ultron and finally Thanos; the threat is escalating and so are the stakes, and Avengers 3 will be better as a result of it.

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Old 08-14-2014, 11:12 AM   #16
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

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Marvel is smart to be introducing each of the Infinity Gems little by little, and also gradually revealing Thanos and his schemes with each passing MCU movie. I suspect that Phase III will have Thanos in a more proactive role, and he will start acquiring those gems and maybe even reveal his master plan of invading Earth. By the time he steals the Infinity Gauntlets from Odin's Vault, the GA will be hotly anticipating the final showdown between him and Avengers, Guardians, and other MCU heroes. On the other hand, if WB has Darkseid as the very first JL villain, he will just job to the heroes without any victories beforehand, and who will they use as an encore for the sequel? Marvel is wise for using Loki to Ultron and finally Thanos; the threat is escalating and so are the stakes, and Avengers 3 will be better as a result of it.
I think you hit the nail on the head.

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Old 08-14-2014, 11:20 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

There is a risk of Marvel playing it a bit too cute with Thanos for sure. He needs to start doing some big things soon. But i imagine he'll have a lot more of a presence in phase 3.

His appearances so far have been effective, for now. I mean the guy treats Ronan, who wants to literally turn an entire planet into space dust, as a joke. I think that attitude is more ominous than big and bombastic. He's just chilling in his chair, not alarmed, not particularly bothered. Loki and Ronan are mere children to him.

I think it's a good approach, teasing him for now. Showing that he is feared and his goals are way above destroying mere planets. But yes, sooner or later Marvel need to actually take a **** or get off the pan when it comes to Thanos. I'd say give him a whole movie to himself based on Thanos Quest. A whole movie dedicated to the villain. If done well there is no way anyone can say he isn't developed enough.

As for Darkseid? Can't wait to see him on the big screen. But he is more a force of nature, of pure evil. He isn't as complex or Machiavellian as Thanos.

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Old 08-14-2014, 11:23 AM   #18
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I think Phase 3 is when Thanos will get up from that throne .

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Old 08-16-2014, 10:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

No. Marvel is patient, and it always pays off. Just as they laid down the foundation for Avengers with 5 solo films, they're being patient with Thanos. He's the Emperor of the MCU.

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Old 08-17-2014, 07:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

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There is a risk of Marvel playing it a bit too cute with Thanos for sure. He needs to start doing some big things soon. But i imagine he'll have a lot more of a presence in phase 3.

His appearances so far have been effective, for now. I mean the guy treats Ronan, who wants to literally turn an entire planet into space dust, as a joke. I think that attitude is more ominous than big and bombastic. He's just chilling in his chair, not alarmed, not particularly bothered. Loki and Ronan are mere children to him.

I think it's a good approach, teasing him for now. Showing that he is feared and his goals are way above destroying mere planets. But yes, sooner or later Marvel need to actually take a **** or get off the pan when it comes to Thanos. I'd say give him a whole movie to himself based on Thanos Quest. A whole movie dedicated to the villain. If done well there is no way anyone can say he isn't developed enough.

As for Darkseid? Can't wait to see him on the big screen. But he is more a force of nature, of pure evil. He isn't as complex or Machiavellian as Thanos.
Couldnt agree more with your thoughts on both Darkseid and Thanos. I cant wait to see both (yes, I am a fan of DC and Marvel, its possible!). And though they may look similar in appearance, they are different characters, with different motivations and powers.

I think they can both be presented as superb villains in their respective franchises, and I honestly cant wait to see more of both.

However, I think we need a show of power from Thanos at some point. GOTG 2 would be the perfect time IMO, have him obliterate someone on the spot for failing him.

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Old 08-17-2014, 10:36 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

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Couldnt agree more with your thoughts on both Darkseid and Thanos. I cant wait to see both (yes, I am a fan of DC and Marvel, its possible!). And though they may look similar in appearance, they are different characters, with different motivations and powers.

I think they can both be presented as superb villains in their respective franchises, and I honestly cant wait to see more of both.

However, I think we need a show of power from Thanos at some point. GOTG 2 would be the perfect time IMO, have him obliterate someone on the spot for failing him.
I think it would be even better if we get to see Thanos destroying a planet before Avengers 3; that way, the audience will know that he means business, and what will happen to Earth of both Avengers and Guardians failed to stop him after he acquires the Infinity Gauntlets.

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Old 08-17-2014, 12:38 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

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I think it would be even better if we get to see Thanos destroying a planet before Avengers 3; that way, the audience will know that he means business, and what will happen to Earth of both Avengers and Guardians failed to stop him after he acquires the Infinity Gauntlets.
Well yeah, something like would be great. So far he has just been words, but I think they need to show he is more than just that with a feat like what you describe. Or vaporising a powerful character. Anything really to show he is a real threat.

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Old 08-17-2014, 11:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I have no idea whether or not Darkseid is the planned villain for JL, but even if that turns out to be true, DC has in no way jumped the gun on Thanos. He's been around since 2012, and will probably have even more cameos and backstory long before Darkseid ever shows up on Apokolips.

That being said: the only studio that is hurting Thanos right now is, of course, Marvel themselves. It's not a "fine" line between being too fast and being too slow in developing the Big Bad --- it's a great big broad line, and Marvel is cruising that line in the way-too-slow line.

Thanos, at this point, is weaksauce and failsauce mixed together in a great big vat of "wtf" and "who cares?" I *love* comic-book Thanos, but MCU Thanos is an utter joke who relies on useless, utterly disloyal henchmen to do his dirty work for him. He watches them not only fail him time and again, but *betray* him time and again, and yet he still keeps hiring them time and again. He makes epic threats against Loki, against Ronan, against Xandar --- then follows through on exactly *zero* of those threats. He searches for and finds Infinity Stones, and then does absolutely nothing to try to win them back when some other dip**** steals it from him.

Right now, Thanos is no Emperor Palpatine. He's Boss Hogg, sitting on his space throne, twiddling his thumbs while Shurruff Roscoe P. Coltrane runs around and ****s things up with them ol' Duke boys again, coo coo coo. There's no menace, there's no intelligence, there's no backstory, there's no drive, there's no continuity, there's no logic. This is *not* the way you build up a Big Bad to be the "final boss battle" everyone seems to envision.

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Old 08-17-2014, 11:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I must be the only one on the planet who thinks Darkseid and Thanos look absolutely nothing alike. When Thanos was sitting there on his throne in GotG, I didn't see a shred of Darkseid in there. And when Darkseid does make his cinematic appearance (assuming Snyder is at the helm), I doubt I'll see a shred of Thanos in there either.

Thanos may have been inspired by Darkseid at his inception, but the similarity between the two stops at the concept level. They're both widely considered to be THE villain of their respective universes - capable of taking on even the most powerful of heroes. That's about all they have in common. Beyond that, they are very much their own characters, with their own domains, goals, and designs.

Though I do look forward to the usual bands of internet trolls coming out in full force and proclaiming "LULZ Darkseid is teh Thanos ripoff!!" once Darkseid does make his debut in the Justice League franchise. Cuz DC sucks and this and that.

Back to the original question, as of right now, I'm not overly impressed with Thanos. I expect that will be fully rectified once Avengers 3 comes out and Whedon gets his hands on him in earnest. But right now? He's had two servants betray him (Ronan literally hangs up on him!) and the NOVA Corps barely reacts to Gamora's connection to him. So as of right now my perception of Thanos is that he's just some big guy that's out there and he has some sort of plan that features stones (of which, he has none). I'm hardly ****ting my pants over him yet.

People keep pointing to the Palpatine comparisons, but I don't see it personally. I remember being very creeped out seeing the hologram of him in Empire Strikes Back. And there is Darth Vader, the main villain of two films and a pop culture icon, down on his knees in front of this hologram - completely subservient and obedient. That makes a statement. So if their goal is to make Thanos the "Emperor of the MCU," they could do better.

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Old 08-17-2014, 11:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is Marvel Shooting Itself In The Foot w/ Thanos?

I think there are some decent comparisons between Thanos and the Emperor, but I agree with Boom that they need to do a better job in creating a more unstoppable-evil aura about him.

As for only having 2 short cameos so far, that's not a bad thing. Hype is rarely a bad thing.

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