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Old 03-09-2011, 02:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Moore and Rape:

-V for Vendetta: Evey is nearly raped, but is saved at the last minute by V. Her close encounter is how she met V.
-LXG 1: Excluding Hyde, how about Skinner in the Girls' School?
-LXG 2: Skinner, once again, this time with Mina.
-LXG Black Dossier: "Bond" nearly rapes his contact in the beginning.
-LXG Century 1910: Nemo's daughter is raped.
-Watchmen: The Comedian & Silk Spectre 1
-The Killing Joke: Joker nearly (or does) rape Barbara.
-Lost Girls: The Peter Pan Section.

Now, these are all the ones that I am aware of...let's face it: Moore usually writes sexual violence against women. Don't get me wrong: I enjoy his writings, but have become somewhat tired of rape appearing.
Firstly, LXG 2 doesn't count. Griffin (which is the character's name, not Skinner) beat up Mina, he didn't rape her. Hardly any better, but it still isn't an example. I also hesistate to refer to The Killing Joke as an example as the story made no strong indicator that Barbara was raped and Moore has gone on record saying that this was never his intention, and what The Joker did was strip her naked to take photographs that would be especially traumatizing to her father. Of course, I say I only hesitate because there is still a sexual element to this.

Secondly, you are leaving out something very important: Over half of the things he has written.

Swamp Thing
Captain Britain
Top Ten
Tom Strong
Promethea
Marvelman
Green Lantern Corps
For The Man Who Has Everything
1963
Supreme
WildC.A.T.S.

Those are just the ones I've read, and none of them had sexual violence as a significant story element.

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Old 03-09-2011, 02:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Mogo totally doesn't socialize due to that date rape.

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Old 03-09-2011, 03:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Well, Marvel Man did have some rape. Remember what happened with Kid Marvel.

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Old 03-09-2011, 03:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Well, Marvel Man did have some rape. Remember what happened with Kid Marvel.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

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Old 03-09-2011, 03:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Easy to forget what with all the baby killing and steel girders being teleported into peoples heads.

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Old 03-09-2011, 04:10 PM   #31
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Wha...what?! Really? Girders into people's heads and baby killing multiple times? Dude that's some depressing material.

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Old 03-09-2011, 04:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Winick's original run on Exiles was the best run on any X-book since the turn of the century. The only reason it doesn't get the respect it deserves is because Chuck Austin turned the book to ****.
Austen did all of ten issues of Exiles, filler in between Winick and later before Bedard came onto the title. It'd be much fairer to credit Chris Claremont with Exiles' downfall.

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Old 03-09-2011, 04:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Yeah. Austin did probably his best work on that book. I mean, sure it wasn't as good as Winick's, but it got the job done. Yeah, Claremont killed it.

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Old 03-09-2011, 04:25 PM   #34
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Austen did all of ten issues of Exiles, filler in between Winick and later before Bedard came onto the title. It'd be much fairer to credit Chris Claremont with Exiles' downfall.
No, the book had been bad long before Claremont was even on the title. Bedard's run was pretty awful. I'm fairly certain Austen did more than 10 issues, but the number is irrelevant. Who was it that retconed the time broker into the time breaker? I thought it was Austen, but now you have me second guessing myself that it may have been Bedard. Either way, the second that the book stopped being "X-Men meets Quantum Leap" was the exact time it started to go downhill.

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Old 03-09-2011, 04:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Wha...what?! Really? Girders into people's heads and baby killing multiple times? Dude that's some depressing material.
Alan Moore was not a happy young man in the '80s.

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Old 03-09-2011, 05:30 PM   #36
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Firstly, LXG 2 doesn't count. Griffin (which is the character's name, not Skinner) beat up Mina, he didn't rape her. Hardly any better, but it still isn't an example. I also hesistate to refer to The Killing Joke as an example as the story made no strong indicator that Barbara was raped and Moore has gone on record saying that this was never his intention, and what The Joker did was strip her naked to take photographs that would be especially traumatizing to her father. Of course, I say I only hesitate because there is still a sexual element to this.

Secondly, you are leaving out something very important: Over half of the things he has written.

Swamp Thing
Captain Britain
Top Ten
Tom Strong
Promethea
Marvelman
Green Lantern Corps
For The Man Who Has Everything
1963
Supreme
WildC.A.T.S.

Those are just the ones I've read, and none of them had sexual violence as a significant story element.
Maybe I have had the worst luck when it comes to the reading order of Moore. I was just irritated with encountering it in every one of the graphic novels I read thus far. It's a minor matter.

Yes, I have no idea where my mind was, but yes, Griffin, not the character from the terrible adaptation. So, my bad. While I was incorrect about LXG-2 - and I'm disregarding Killing Joke because of its validity - having said violence against women in half of my his works poses problems but I am not going to dissect them. He is still one of my favorite writers, and my respect for the terrific body of work he has produced and is still creating has not diminished.

I cannot wait until The Moon and Serpent Bumper Book of Magic is released plus the next entry in LXG: Century.

The rape scenario is a minor peeve I have, formed from my unlucky drawings from his bibliography.

And, there is a reason why this thread is the unpopular comic book opinion one, and why I posted my thoughts here. Does that mean that I am an authoritative expert on Moore? Heck, no. I'm just a fan who found a slight nuisance and wanted to express it in the appropriated forum. I was not trying to bash him in any way. I was just pointing out what I perceived to be a recurring plot device, and my thoughts on it. While I was slightly incorrect in some regards - not having touched some graphic novels in over half a decade - I can say that my evidence is not purely anecdotal. But, that is all. One man's perceptions of a volume of work. Ah, literary criticism. One of the few things that can cause the most civilized man to bare his fangs and embark on an Ahab-like quest to prove someone or something wrong.

There's a reason why I keep it to a relaxed, anonymous setting. It's nice to debate in a friendly fashion.

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

The rape device has been criticized before in Moore's writing, so I see where you were coming from with that. I think I've just read enough of his other work that's mostly devoid of that type of content (Promethea, Tom Strong, Supreme, etc.) that I don't really think about it as much.

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

The sex in Promethea was not only consensual, but it was a thing of beauty. It was also a little disgusting. And confusing. And not at all hot.

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Have you guys heard of Moore's Neonomicon? It makes all his other works look like the Powerpuff Girls.

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:59 PM   #40
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

Yeah, I have it. Well, most of it anyway, still waiting on that last issue (Goddamn, I really hate Avatar Press).

I don't know if I'd go that far or anything, though. Maybe in regards to sexual violence, but some of the stuff in Miracleman really is nightmare inducing.

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Old 03-09-2011, 07:33 PM   #41
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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-The Killing Joke: Joker nearly (or does) rape Barbara.
Misposted; mods, please move this to the My Fanfiction section.

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Old 03-09-2011, 07:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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Maybe I have had the worst luck when it comes to the reading order of Moore. I was just irritated with encountering it in every one of the graphic novels I read thus far. It's a minor matter.

Yes, I have no idea where my mind was, but yes, Griffin, not the character from the terrible adaptation. So, my bad. While I was incorrect about LXG-2 - and I'm disregarding Killing Joke because of its validity - having said violence against women in half of my his works poses problems but I am not going to dissect them. He is still one of my favorite writers, and my respect for the terrific body of work he has produced and is still creating has not diminished.
I don't see how it poses problems. It's not like those instances are every portayed as good things.

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I cannot wait until The Moon and Serpent Bumper Book of Magic is released plus the next entry in LXG: Century.

The rape scenario is a minor peeve I have, formed from my unlucky drawings from his bibliography.

And, there is a reason why this thread is the unpopular comic book opinion one, and why I posted my thoughts here. Does that mean that I am an authoritative expert on Moore? Heck, no. I'm just a fan who found a slight nuisance and wanted to express it in the appropriated forum. I was not trying to bash him in any way. I was just pointing out what I perceived to be a recurring plot device, and my thoughts on it. While I was slightly incorrect in some regards - not having touched some graphic novels in over half a decade - I can say that my evidence is not purely anecdotal. But, that is all. One man's perceptions of a volume of work. Ah, literary criticism. One of the few things that can cause the most civilized man to bare his fangs and embark on an Ahab-like quest to prove someone or something wrong.

There's a reason why I keep it to a relaxed, anonymous setting. It's nice to debate in a friendly fashion.
Okay.

I wasn't saying you didn't have a right to your opinion, I was just bringing up some counter-points. It's generally how it's done around here. If it weren't this thread would just be a list.

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Old 03-10-2011, 01:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

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I don't know if I'd go that far or anything, though. Maybe in regards to sexual violence, but some of the stuff in Miracleman really is nightmare inducing.
Indeed, though I have to say: Miracleman #15, despite being incredibly nightmare inducing, is one of the most beautifully written comics I have ever read.

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Old 03-10-2011, 11:54 AM   #44
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

I generally hate Millars work. Tried Nemesis and not only was it meh story wise, but it was absolutely revolting. I'd list more of his stuff that I hate, but we all know his work.

The only significant exception for me was his Ultimates work, which is some of my favorite of all time.

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Old 03-10-2011, 12:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

I liked Cap taking out Giant Man. Other than that, I really don't care for Millar at all. I HATED everything about Kick-Ass, the book and movie. And I'm a fan of Nic Cage (I like Cage, not so much his choice in movies) and Chloe Moretz.

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Old 03-10-2011, 12:09 PM   #46
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I usually hate both Millar & Cage, but I loved the Kick Ass movie for some reason.

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Old 03-10-2011, 12:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

I like quite a bit of Millar's stuff.

I liked Red Son, Ultimates 1 and 2, his Authority run, Wanted.

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Old 03-10-2011, 12:15 PM   #48
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

I like quite a bit of his work too. I think he comes up with good ideas but sometimes, well, a lot of the time, his writing can come across a bit juvenile.

Red Son is one of my favourite Superman stories ever.

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Old 03-10-2011, 12:22 PM   #49
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Default Re: Unpopular Comic Book Opinions - Part 1

I've always liked the thought that Millar is the Michael Bay of comic writers. I mean, most of the time it doesn't have much depth, and is mostly just a series of awesome in theory things happening. It's best when you don't think about it too much and just enjoy it for what it is.

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Old 03-10-2011, 12:34 PM   #50
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I actually liked the concept of the Totem stuff in Spider-Man

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