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Old 03-08-2011, 11:51 PM   #1
thatpaulallen
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Default Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

I'd like this thread to be devoted to any discrepancies you've noticed between the X-Films, and is also open to possible explanations anyone might have for said discrepancies.

I'll Start...

I just re-watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine last night, just out of pure boredom, and realized there are a few plot holes in relation to X-Men: First Class.

The one that jumped out at me, was the ending. A blindfolded Scott leads the X-Kids to Xavier's waiting chopper, where we see a "young" BALD Xavier.

However, in this group of young mutants, is a young Emma Frost. So how could First Class' Emma be older and in the same time period as a non-bald Xavier?

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Old 03-08-2011, 11:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatpaulallen View Post
I'd like this thread to be devoted to any discrepancies you've noticed between the X-Films, and is also open to possible explanations anyone might have for said discrepancies.

I'll Start...

I just re-watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine last night, just out of pure boredom, and realized there are a few plot holes in relation to X-Men: First Class.

The one that jumped out at me, was the ending. A blindfolded Scott leads the X-Kids to Xavier's waiting chopper, where we see a "young" BALD Xavier.

However, in this group of young mutants, is a young Emma Frost. So how could First Class' Emma be older and in the same time period as a non-bald Xavier?
It's a discrepancy, but the character isn't called Emma Frost in she's just credited as Emma/Kayla's sister. Of course all the nerds know it is supposed to be Emma Frost, but I see it like the whole Victor Creed/Sabretooth thing. X-Men doesn't use the name Creed and Origins doesn't use Sabretooth - I think they can be played off as different characters in both instances.

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Old 03-09-2011, 12:06 AM   #3
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My problem with the "Emma" ordeal, is that they look similar (blonde hair, blue eyes) and they have the SAME power, hahaha.

Yes, as nerds it is our duty to know that it's suppose to be Emma Frost in both instances, but I have faith that more than just the super-fans will notice this continuity error.

However, only the fans will care enough to post in a SuperHero forum. ;-)

As far as Sabretooth, there is an interesting blog post that tries to rationalize Liev Schreiber's transformation into Tyler Mane. It'd be cool to see it implemented in a future film.

"Seeing that there's no X-Men Origins: Sabretooth, I'll try to come up with an idea on how this change occurred.

So here are the things we need to consider. Wolverine aside from his adamantium didn't look much different from his appearance in Wolverine. Though he looks older in Origins than in X-Men, but we could reason out that he's healing factor might have rejuvenate his looks to make him look younger in the first X-Men movie. So, why is there much a lot more changes in Sabretooth: his height, his appearance, and his attitude.

My theory is that after the events of Origins, he now sees himself inferior to his "brother" so he seeks some ways to even the odds. Stryker has said that the adamantium bonding will kill him, so he looked for an alternate option in gaining a certain advantage against Wolverine.

Enter: Magneto. This one I think will fit well with the movie universe. In the first X-Men movie Magneto already has a machine that transforms humans into mutants. What if, the prototypes or other machines in a similar vein was the one that tranformed Sabretooth. There's your explanation why Sabretooth is working with Magneto on the beginning of the X-Men movie. The transformation would make him more feral, which will increase his mass and his strength.

How about the personality, why is there a big difference between the cocky Sabretooth in Origins and the Magneto lackey in X-Men. Here's my theory Magneto who has worked with Professor X on Cerebro, knows somethings as well about brain pattern manipulation. Seeing that Sabretooth would be an asset (much like how he saw Jean Grey "The Phoenix" in X-Men 3)he wanted him to be in his organization, though with Sabretooth being sort of a loose canon, he needed a way to have a hold in him. So with Magneto tricking Sabretooth into going into his procedure without the knowledge that he will alter his mind as well. Come the first X-Men movie, Wolverine and Sabretooth barely knows each other, though Sabretooth at the back of his mind still have a little connection with Wolverine when he got Logan's Dog Tag, and implying that he wants to be the one to kill off Wolverine. He barely articulates now and more often he growls."

http://www.**************.com/x-men_.../news/?a=15169


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Old 03-09-2011, 03:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

x-men nfirst class may be kind of a prequel, but it is not a full 100% prequel to previous x-movies and wolverine movie. It' s also a reboot.

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Old 03-09-2011, 03:42 AM   #5
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Storm's hair!

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:42 AM   #6
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

Storm's hair?... More like her accent! Hahaha. She has one for X1, and by the time X3 comes around she just talks normal.

Another thing that bugged me was the lack of continuity between Logan's flashbacks in X1 and X2, and what actually happened in XO: Wolverine.

Anybody have any other errors that bug the crap out of you?

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Old 03-09-2011, 08:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

Please no more plot hole/continuity threads between X1-Wolverine and this movie.

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Old 03-09-2011, 11:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

What they should do in the next Wolverine movie is basically say everything that happened in X-men: Origins was a memory implant from Weapon X. They did that in the comics many times.

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Old 03-09-2011, 12:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

That could work, but he doesn't remember the event in the first place. It would make more sense for the memories he has in X1 and X2 as implants. However, that would defeat the purpose TOO, because the evens are virtually identical... Except for the lack of a masked doctor with a huge hypodermic needle, and people toasting champagne.

What would Stryker's motive be for changing a few minute details of the Weapon X experiment?

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Old 03-09-2011, 12:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

The age/validity of Stryker in X:2 & X-Men Origins is one that kind of bothered me.

He said to Senator Kelly "I was piloting choppers in Nam', while you were suckin on your momma's titter at Woodstock(1969)"

Implying that he's 18-20 years older than Kelly. Disregarding the actual age of the actors at the time, that would've made Stryker between 65-70 yrs old and Kelly at least 45-52 in X-2. Ok, MAYBE...

But in Origins, they're actually in Vietnam when he first approaches Logan & Victor and he sure isn't some 20 yr old private. He's a high ranking officer, probably in his 30s, and it would have taken him some time and numerous battles under his belt to get that rank. The Vietnam war ended in 75' and Stryker implied he was piloting choppers at 18-20 yrs old in 69'. Doubtful he would get that rank in just 6 years at such a young age.

I'm sure we can argue this with WORST case scenarios of age and rapid promotion theories. But it didn't seem like they tried to cover up that statement from X-2 much. Then again, Origins itself was a moving contradiction throughout!

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Old 03-09-2011, 12:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

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Originally Posted by thatpaulallen View Post

I just re-watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine last night, just out of pure boredom
Too busy laughing at this to read the thread. Seriously, boredom is the only reason to watch that film. I permanently associate it with the Black Eye Peas guy's "performance".

"There's a special place in hell for thing's we done, Logan"


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Old 03-09-2011, 12:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

I know this has been posted before, but it seemed pertinent to post it once again here since, within this quote, we hear - straight from the director's mouth - exactly what kind of movie this is in terms of continuity:

Quote:
I’d say this is more like Casino Royale than [JJ Abrams] Star Trek. If you think about it, Casino Royale just totally rebooted Bond — they kept what they wanted and got rid of what didn’t work. You sort of saw Bond become a double O for the first time and yet it didn’t seem to matter [what they changed]. I think my rule is to make a stand alone movie that is as good as possible and do as many nods and winks towards the comics and the other films, but not get tied up in knots worrying about that. It’s sort of a stand-alone movie in my mind with a reboot being a real reboot. Because if you’re a stickler for continuity, in X3 when you see Patrick Stewart…. well, I don’t want to give away anything about the plot but we’ve been as respectful of the other movies and comics as we I can feasibly can be without compromising the story.”
- source

Basically, like the Phoenix, he is choosing to "burn away what doesn't work." That's just how it is.

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

X-Men Origins: Wolverine dug a pretty big hole as far as continuity errors go. What kinda makes me mad, is that X-Men: First Class is going to be ignoring the quick Hank McCoy cameo in X2 much like X3 did. The only difference is that I could justify in my head, that within those few weeks after X2, Hank performed the experiment that changed him into the "blue Beast" forever.

Unless, they somehow explain in First Class that Hank's beast-transformation isn't permanent, and that he changes in and out of "Beast-form" sort of like a werewolf. And as he grows older, the transformations happen more and more often, until we finally come to X3, and find that he can't change back to his human form at all, and that he's stuck.

A really convoluted way of filling an easy to avoid plot hole.

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:11 PM   #14
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I so done with the concept of continuity.

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

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Originally Posted by x-alias View Post
I know this has been posted before, but it seemed pertinent to post it once again here since, within this quote, we hear - straight from the director's mouth - exactly what kind of movie this is in terms of continuity:


- source

Basically, like the Phoenix, he is choosing to "burn away what doesn't work." That's just how it is.
That's a good quote. I totally respect the director's, um... direction. However, I feel like the advertising for this movie leads the audience to believe that this is a straight prequel. Would you agree?

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

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Originally Posted by thatpaulallen View Post
That's a good quote. I totally respect the director's, um... direction. However, I feel like the advertising for this movie leads the audience to believe that this is a straight prequel. Would you agree?
Yeah I definitely agree with you on that point. That being said, most of the continuity errors probably aren't going to be picked up by general audiences. Also, if the movie's really stellar, which I suspect it will be, people will be leaving the theatre saying, "Wow, that was awesome," not endlessly debating over the fact that different versions of Emma Frost have appeared in two films in the franchise.

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:22 PM   #17
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Yeah I definitely agree with you on that point. That being said, most of the continuity errors probably aren't going to be picked up by general audiences. Also, if the movie's really stellar, which I suspect it will be, people will be leaving the theatre saying, "Wow, that was awesome," not endlessly debating over the fact that different versions of Emma Frost have appeared in two films in the franchise.
I totally agree. If this does for X-Men what Batman Begins did for Batman or what Casino Royale did for James Bond, I'm on board.

I think the biggest mistake of this movie so far lies in it's misleading advertising. Hopefully the new Spider-Man reboot won't harken back to the Maguire and Raimi days.

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Old 03-09-2011, 02:30 PM   #18
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As much as the producers want to make continuity sense out of Wolverine Origins and X-Men First Class I just think of them as seperate storylines.

No matter how hard they try to unify them it's all hopeless just enjoy the films.

It's kind of like how do you explain Bruce Wayne looking different in the Burton/Shumacher Batman films, you could make the argument that he had plasitc surgery to look different in each film.

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Old 03-09-2011, 02:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: Plot Holes in the X-Men Saga...

They are not misleading people.This IS prequel to at least to X-Men and X2.X-Men origins Wolverine Is totally out.X-Men the Last Stand may or may not be be out.That IS question mark.While there were TV ads for Casino Royale which did mislead some In thinking It told the story of how Bond became the bond they know the entire marketing campagin Is on showing the younger days of Xavier and Magneto.People should not take the Star Trek or Casino Royale compassion literal.

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Old 03-09-2011, 03:47 PM   #20
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So far i dont see any major plot holes in the film, everything fits and if it doesnt you can generally come up wth a positive way to explain. For example...

Emma Frost
> In X-Men First Class - we know an older version of the character has been cast and that the film is largely set during the 60's (a brilliant homage to when the comics were first released)

> In X-Men Origins Wolverine - We had Emma who was Kayla's sister who appears in the second half of the movie which if you were to pinpoint a time period you would probably say is that it was in the mid 80's and Emma is a late teen mutant. Now even though Emma had a same ability as the white queen emma and bore a likeness. It was simply explained that she was Emma who was Kayla's sister.

In X-Men Last Stand
> We had a brief cameo of th stepford cuckoos. (this although brief would be an interesting nod to an explination)

My thoughts is this, in X-Men 1 Charles Xavier said he was aware of mutant experimentation but nothing to the lengths of what Wolverine had gone through.

Also Wolverine's mind was wiped, and altered - basically we know that weapon x can mess with peoples minds.

Emma Frost in the comics was cloned - the result was the stephord cuckoos.

So my thoughts is that Emma Frost in the 60's - the hellfire club probably tried to clone her. think about it a mutant who can turn to diamonds... who wouldnt want to clone her. anyway the first result was Emma that we saw in the wolverine movie... The whole thing as done by the weapon x project so in order to have someone protect over the clone emma, they made Kayla believe that she was her sister and then later used that bond to help capture and test on wolverine. Now we know that after that movie stryker was arrested but he returns in x2 so some time between them two movies Stryker probably created the stepford cuckoos which we then see at Xaviers school in x3.

And if you want an interesting fact, If you look at th DVD special features for X2 you will notice signs for the Alkali Lake facility being funded by Shaw Industries. and also Stryker wearing a Hellfire ring in x2....

See litte things like this makes the universe bigger.

The Creed/Sabertooth thing... well i view them as the same character but something had to have happened to Creed at some point which lead to him being like he was in x1 - i figure secondary mutation, much in the way Beast looks like a big cat in the more recent comics

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Old 03-09-2011, 08:47 PM   #21
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I so done with the concept of continuity.
I really wish Vaughn would've just declared First Class a reboot so these controversies wouldn't have to happen.

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Old 03-09-2011, 11:16 PM   #22
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we need to look a origins as a bad dream. because that what it was. i feel bad for gavin hood and jackman. they're both talented. they both got screwed over by fox.

but First Class is a partial rebooth and Wolverine is new continuity / reboot. Wolverine and Ghost Rider films are both films that are reboots from the previous film/ wolverine is a new separate continuty and First Class is really a prequel to x1 and x2 and it ignores x3 and orgins clearly.

i mean i think the age of hank mccory in first class and his age in x3 would not match up. beast looks to be in his 40/50's's in x3 which takes place in 2004 but in FC he is 20 which is the 1960's. so already there is a discrepancy there. with each film the continuity gets further messed up. its sad.

so we should all be thankful that singer is back. when he left xmen 3 things got messed up. i like x3 but x3 created the stage for orgins. and i hate orgins with a passion. Darren Aronofsky knows it and hugh knows it too. that's why they are creating something separate.

but even if we pretend orgins didn't happen we still have lots of continuity errors

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Old 03-10-2011, 05:30 PM   #23
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As far as Sabretooth, there is an interesting blog post that tries to rationalize Liev Schreiber's transformation into Tyler Mane. It'd be cool to see it implemented in a future film.

"Seeing that there's no X-Men Origins: Sabretooth, I'll try to come up with an idea on how this change occurred.

So here are the things we need to consider. Wolverine aside from his adamantium didn't look much different from his appearance in Wolverine. Though he looks older in Origins than in X-Men, but we could reason out that he's healing factor might have rejuvenate his looks to make him look younger in the first X-Men movie. So, why is there much a lot more changes in Sabretooth: his height, his appearance, and his attitude.

My theory is that after the events of Origins, he now sees himself inferior to his "brother" so he seeks some ways to even the odds. Stryker has said that the adamantium bonding will kill him, so he looked for an alternate option in gaining a certain advantage against Wolverine.

Enter: Magneto. This one I think will fit well with the movie universe. In the first X-Men movie Magneto already has a machine that transforms humans into mutants. What if, the prototypes or other machines in a similar vein was the one that tranformed Sabretooth. There's your explanation why Sabretooth is working with Magneto on the beginning of the X-Men movie. The transformation would make him more feral, which will increase his mass and his strength.

How about the personality, why is there a big difference between the cocky Sabretooth in Origins and the Magneto lackey in X-Men. Here's my theory Magneto who has worked with Professor X on Cerebro, knows somethings as well about brain pattern manipulation. Seeing that Sabretooth would be an asset (much like how he saw Jean Grey "The Phoenix" in X-Men 3)he wanted him to be in his organization, though with Sabretooth being sort of a loose canon, he needed a way to have a hold in him. So with Magneto tricking Sabretooth into going into his procedure without the knowledge that he will alter his mind as well. Come the first X-Men movie, Wolverine and Sabretooth barely knows each other, though Sabretooth at the back of his mind still have a little connection with Wolverine when he got Logan's Dog Tag, and implying that he wants to be the one to kill off Wolverine. He barely articulates now and more often he growls."

http://www.**************.com/x-men_.../news/?a=15169
Yeah i like what this guy said.

I always felt off all the plot holes in this sage, that the Sabretooth one is the easiest to fix for the simple fact that Singer hinted at it a couple times in X1 that Sabretooth might have had the faintest notion that he remembered Wolverine but that he obviously wasn't sure. Not to mention Origins Sabretooth wanted to be superior to Logan so he might have done some kind of operation that made him more feral and less human like.

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Old 03-10-2011, 06:34 PM   #24
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I really wish Vaughn would've just declared First Class a reboot so these controversies wouldn't have to happen.
If he had done that people would be wondering why we didn't see the original X-Men team from the comics. Wait a minute, they do that already...

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Old 03-10-2011, 08:56 PM   #25
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This Is not a reboot.1:Bryan Singer would not be Involved In throwing out his own films.
2:The marketing Is entirely trying to connect to earlier films and 3:The lineup In this
film would be much different for a reboot.This Is Lineup for prequel.

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