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Old 03-19-2011, 04:19 PM   #1
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Default Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

We all know the biggest plot hole in this movie seems to be that we know Xavier will be crippled, yet he walked at the end of x-men origins wolverine. Now as much as we would like to forget that movie, i think we can essentially explain it.

Firstly i'd like to note that Xavier has regained and lose his ability to walk in the comics numerous times. But that be just too unbelievable for the movie.

So... how do we explain it.

Well my question is "how are we sure that's Xavier?" Think about it, in the movie universe we know that Xavier has a brother whose mind has left his body. (As per the scene at the end of X3) So what happened to that brother? well im guessing that the brother is a strange reference to that of Cassandra Nova from the comic books. Although Cassandra is female in the comics - you have to imagin that the movie took a more creative path so that Xavier had a brother instead of a sister. And thus at the end of x3 he manages to transfer his conciousness into that body.

But this is what im thinking - who is this brother? he isnt a character in x-men first class, he wasnt seen in any of the previous movies so what exactly happend to this character?

Well here is my thoughts.

Now that Fox are considering an X-Men First Class Trilogy, we now have the oppertunity to explore lots of plot holes caused by the previous movies.

I figure that Charles Xaviers past will only play a small part - and the film largely focuses more on Magnetos past. Even though you will take sides with Charles in the movie. Essentially the movie will be about why Magneto's doiung and What Charles is going to do to stop it.

So First Class 2 & 3 can clear up any consistances.

Say Charles had a brother, and that brother became the villian of sequel or the 3rd movie, possible 3rd as it would better tie in with origins.

During that story we give Xaviers brother an Onslaught/Proteus like power that makes him incredibly dangerous and the biggest challenge our x-men will face. However what if Charles brother posed as his brother and tried to start his own X-Men group - thus finding thouse mutants we see at the end of x-men origins - Making that Charles Xavier - really "Richard" Xavier in disguise as his brother recruiting for his own x-men team. Look who you would have in that group

Cyclops, Emma Frost Clone (However thats a whole over story/theory im working on) Toad, Possibly Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch?

Well its an option is what im saying. It would tie up the other movies and not leave everyone feeling that there is large inconsistencys

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Old 03-19-2011, 04:26 PM   #2
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QUIT MAKING PLOT HOLE/INCONSISTENCY/CONTINUITY THREADS.

Thanks and have a good day.

Whatever happens in the movie...just go with it. Quit trying to relate this movie's quality with movies of lesser quality. If the director wants to disregard a bad movie, who cares? Do you want a good movie or a movie that has 100% continuity?

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Old 03-19-2011, 04:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

what ive only made one? this one

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Old 03-19-2011, 04:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

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Think about it, in the movie universe we know that Xavier has a brother whose mind has left his body. (As per the scene at the end of X3)

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Old 03-19-2011, 06:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

In an interview, or in the DVD commentary, one of the writers suggests that the body Xavier transfers his mind to is that of his twin brother...

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Old 03-19-2011, 06:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

Easy fix.Just Ignore X-Men The Last Stand and X-Men Origins:Wolverine.This appears what the film makers are doing.

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Old 03-19-2011, 06:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

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In an interview, or in the DVD commentary, one of the writers suggests that the body Xavier transfers his mind to is that of his twin brother...
Oh, so this is something that didn't happen. Got it.

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Old 03-19-2011, 07:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

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We all know the biggest plot hole in this movie seems to be that we know Xavier will be crippled, yet he walked at the end of x-men origins wolverine.

Well, you are making the assumption that First Class takes place before X-Men origins. The X-Men did not exist in Origins. Remember how Cyclops was a weapon x captive, along with Emma? Clearly they are younger than they appear to be in First Class. So your entire explanation, while elaborate, was unnecessary as it was predicated upon misinformation.

With that said, there is a glaring oversight with this film.

- In X2, there is a brief scene in which Henry McCoy is on a television news program, engaged in a debate. We clearly see that he has no fur.

- In X3, we meet Beast, who does have fur. This much is fine, except when he encounters leech, his fur rescinds, which makes no sense because it is not a part of Henry's mutation.

- In First Class, there is flight scene in which Henry is flying an aircraft. He can be seen as having blue fur. Considering that these films all share canon, it makes no sense that he has fur in the "beginning" even though he does not even have it in X2.

But, my guess is that they are largely going to ignore the X-Men films and kind of tell their own story.

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Old 03-19-2011, 07:38 PM   #9
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Well, you are making the assumption that First Class takes place before X-Men origins. The X-Men did not exist in Origins. Remember how Cyclops was a weapon x captive, along with Emma? Clearly they are younger than they appear to be in First Class. So your entire explanation, while elaborate, was unnecessary as it was predicated upon misinformation.

With that said, there is a glaring oversight with this film.

- In X2, there is a brief scene in which Henry McCoy is on a television news program, engaged in a debate. We clearly see that he has no fur.

- In X3, we meet Beast, who does have fur. This much is fine, except when he encounters leech, his fur rescinds, which makes no sense because it is not a part of Henry's mutation.

- In First Class, there is flight scene in which Henry is flying an aircraft. He can be seen as having blue fur. Considering that these films all share canon, it makes no sense that he has fur in the "beginning" even though he does not even have it in X2.

But, my guess is that they are largely going to ignore the X-Men films and kind of tell their own story.
I'm going to regret this, but it's a movie forum, so I already kind of do.

First off, how is Beast's fur not part of his mutation. Please don't give me the "well, in the comics, he experimented on himself and yada yada yada" answer. I'm talking about the movies, so let's back this up with things from the movies.

Second, let's talk about important things from the movies, not two second cameos of a character named "Hank McCoy" on a television. (Note that this is different from a character being used as a plot device under a slightly different name.)

Third, can we please realize that this is the fourth set of people adapting these characters to film and the FOURTH set of hands writing this story, and can we accept that, just like the comics that have been going on for decades in the care of more than a few different people, there are going to be continuity glitches here and there and that by and large they don't matter? Please?

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Old 03-19-2011, 09:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

You do have a point. The films do not make mention of how he went from having no fur, to having fur. So it could very well be a secondary mutation, but that is only if we assume. I can only go on the source material, and we know that in the books he did it to himself. As for the inconsistencies, I am not a continuity-nazi. I do like things to make sense, but I won't go into some geek-rage if something is inaccurate about the films, compared to the comics. However, to be fair, the contradiction I pointed out is more in line with the canon as seen in the films, rather than the books themselves (save for my one point about how Beast gained fur). It won't stop me from enjoying the movie.

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Old 03-19-2011, 10:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

I figured we just ignore Origins at the very least, like everyone has said.

has none of the filmmakers admitted they dropped the proverbial ball in that movie yet?

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Old 03-20-2011, 03:32 AM   #12
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what ive only made one? this one
There are like 4 or 5 threads about this movie and continuity/plot holes.


http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=346989
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=349692
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=341438
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=346632

That is just the first 3 pages.

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Old 03-20-2011, 03:37 AM   #13
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Well, you are making the assumption that First Class takes place before X-Men origins. The X-Men did not exist in Origins. Remember how Cyclops was a weapon x captive, along with Emma? Clearly they are younger than they appear to be in First Class. So your entire explanation, while elaborate, was unnecessary as it was predicated upon misinformation.

With that said, there is a glaring oversight with this film.

- In X2, there is a brief scene in which Henry McCoy is on a television news program, engaged in a debate. We clearly see that he has no fur.

- In X3, we meet Beast, who does have fur. This much is fine, except when he encounters leech, his fur rescinds, which makes no sense because it is not a part of Henry's mutation.

- In First Class, there is flight scene in which Henry is flying an aircraft. He can be seen as having blue fur. Considering that these films all share canon, it makes no sense that he has fur in the "beginning" even though he does not even have it in X2.

But, my guess is that they are largely going to ignore the X-Men films and kind of tell their own story.
This movie takes place in the 60s and Origins clearly takes place at the end of the 70s/early 80s after Vietnam. So yes, this movie is clearly contradictory to Origins. BUT WHO CARES

X2's Hank on tv was an Easter Egg. X3 takes place directly after X2 yet Hank has been Beast for a while. So tomg that means X3 contradicted X2. No, it was just an Easter Egg. I even think Bryan Singer has said the exact same thing. Just let it go and enjoy the movie. Don't try to rationalize why Xavier is crippled when he was walking in X3 and Origins.

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Old 03-20-2011, 11:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

A wizard did it.

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

The one that bugs me is how there are characters like Cyclops and Wolverine and Storm in X1 & 2, and yet they seem to appear in a crappy alternate universe film that no-one should remember called The Last Stand.

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:20 PM   #16
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This movie takes place in the 60s and Origins clearly takes place at the end of the 70s/early 80s after Vietnam. So yes, this movie is clearly contradictory to Origins. BUT WHO CARES

X2's Hank on tv was an Easter Egg. X3 takes place directly after X2 yet Hank has been Beast for a while. So tomg that means X3 contradicted X2. No, it was just an Easter Egg. I even think Bryan Singer has said the exact same thing. Just let it go and enjoy the movie. Don't try to rationalize why Xavier is crippled when he was walking in X3 and Origins.
When you look at your DVD collection dont you think that somebody is taking the preverbial 'P' with you? They can't be bothered with addressing Xavier's walking / not walking issue but they're quite happy take the money you spent on the DVD's.

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:27 PM   #17
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I don't own Wolverine so I could not care less and I don't care if someone is pissed that they are disregarding it...because it is an awful movie and a stain on the franchise. It's the same as people whining that they are rebooting Fantastic Four. Those movies were awful...good riddance. I am sure someone is pissed that they are rebooting it but if it leads to better movies who cares???

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Old 03-20-2011, 05:01 PM   #18
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This movie takes place in the 60s and Origins clearly takes place at the end of the 70s/early 80s after Vietnam. So yes, this movie is clearly contradictory to Origins. BUT WHO CARES
I did not know that First Class was literally set in the 60s. I just thought it was modeled on the old books, not literally an adaption of their time frame. Well, so much for my counter point.

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Old 03-20-2011, 06:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

Yeah this movie has the Cuban Missle Crisis as part of the plot...and of course JFK was on the tv in the trailer.

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Old 03-20-2011, 07:38 PM   #20
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This movie takes place in the 60s and Origins clearly takes place at the end of the 70s/early 80s after Vietnam. So yes, this movie is clearly contradictory to Origins. BUT WHO CARES

X2's Hank on tv was an Easter Egg. X3 takes place directly after X2 yet Hank has been Beast for a while. So tomg that means X3 contradicted X2. No, it was just an Easter Egg. I even think Bryan Singer has said the exact same thing. Just let it go and enjoy the movie. Don't try to rationalize why Xavier is crippled when he was walking in X3 and Origins.
The original plan for Hank in X2 was to show him transform when Xavier turns Cerebro on the mutants. But they had to drop it because of budget reasons. X2 to X3 is a few months, enough time for Hank to become blue.

But you know, Beast has gone from having no fur, to fur, to being furless and back again before becoming a big cat. If the comics are going to play loose with it, I'm not going to get bothered by the movies doing it.

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Old 03-20-2011, 07:50 PM   #21
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Well, you are making the assumption that First Class takes place before X-Men origins. The X-Men did not exist in Origins. Remember how Cyclops was a weapon x captive, along with Emma? Clearly they are younger than they appear to be in First Class. So your entire explanation, while elaborate, was unnecessary as it was predicated upon misinformation.

With that said, there is a glaring oversight with this film.

- In X2, there is a brief scene in which Henry McCoy is on a television news program, engaged in a debate. We clearly see that he has no fur.

- In X3, we meet Beast, who does have fur. This much is fine, except when he encounters leech, his fur rescinds, which makes no sense because it is not a part of Henry's mutation.

- In First Class, there is flight scene in which Henry is flying an aircraft. He can be seen as having blue fur. Considering that these films all share canon, it makes no sense that he has fur in the "beginning" even though he does not even have it in X2.

But, my guess is that they are largely going to ignore the X-Men films and kind of tell their own story.
Actually what Dr.Negative is saying here is that there are ways of explaining this without having to feel the movie is ruined.

Firstly just because Emma was in Origins doesnt mean that was Emma in fact that could of been a clone... the hellfire have cloned her, thats what the stepford cuckoos were and they appeared in x-men 3...

secondly there are endless optionns really - there are mutants not used in the film, for example how do we know that was Dr.McCoy? or even if it was, How do we know that he hadnt found a temporary reversal to his blue furr condition only for it to right itself in x3. Its not really inconsistant as not yet explained. There more than just Mystique who can shape shift in the x-men universe.

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:49 PM   #22
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I figured we just ignore Origins at the very least, like everyone has said.

has none of the filmmakers admitted they dropped the proverbial ball in that movie yet?
I think the fact that First Class, The Wolverine, and the planned Deadpool spin-off are all ignoring/contradicting Origins speaks for itself.

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Old 03-20-2011, 09:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

I really wish Singer and Vaughn would've called First Class a complete reboot so that the fanbase wouldn't have to debate continuity discrepancies over and over again.

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Old 03-21-2011, 01:52 AM   #24
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The original plan for Hank in X2 was to show him transform when Xavier turns Cerebro on the mutants. But they had to drop it because of budget reasons. X2 to X3 is a few months, enough time for Hank to become blue.

But you know, Beast has gone from having no fur, to fur, to being furless and back again before becoming a big cat. If the comics are going to play loose with it, I'm not going to get bothered by the movies doing it.

That is interesting. Also, you make a fantastic point. Considering that Beast's cat-like appearance has been attributed to his secondary mutation (am I the only one that misses humanoid Beast from the 90s?), it is plausible that they took a page from that notion, in X3. To that end, it would make sense that Leech was able to reverse Beast's furriness.


@TheVelveOnion

It is obvious that you are a true fan of fiction. Your willingness to invest in the suspension of disbelief, is impressive. It could indeed have been a clone, or shape shifter. That sort of willingness to make an excuse for the events in a story, really allows one to simply enjoy a piece rather than being overly critical of the minutia. Seriously, I applaud that kind of attitude. I can't help but think of my favorite quote from William Wordsworth; "We murder to dissect." Every time we analyze something, we must destroy whatever it was, prior to our analysis. Sometimes, it is good to let go.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: Can The Dreaded Inconsistency Can Be Explained?

How about your just ignore them. Its much easier.

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