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Old 03-27-2011, 02:34 PM   #101
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Default Re: Will Sucker Punch bombing affect Superman?

I'm torn on the whole "it'll be his most realistic film" thing. On the one hand, it's going to be nice to see Snyder with his feet back on the ground (I love Dawn of the Dead; it's tied with Watchmen for my favorite Snyder film because it feels the most honest and real out of his films). On the other hand, the sensibilities he brought to Sucker Punch would be so exciting to see in Superman. I'd love to see a very stylized, art deco Superman where he's stopping runaway trains filled with robots and flying through skies filled with zeppelins.

Ultimately, I can hope for the best of both worlds, sort of. Hopefully the characters are what feels real, while the action is still a mind explosion.

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Old 03-27-2011, 02:41 PM   #102
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I'm torn on the whole "it'll be his most realistic film" thing.
Notice that he has only said that in the interviews in which he was promoting Sucker Punch. I think they already knew Sucker Punch was going to bomb, and Snyder was emphasizing the "realism" in Superman to distance it as much as possible from Sucker Punch.
So the whole "realism" talk is damage control to inform the general public that "no, Superman will be nothing like Sucker Punch; ignore Sucker Punch when thinking about my Superman movie", the effectiveness of that strategy will eventually be determined.

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Old 03-27-2011, 02:44 PM   #103
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Notice that he has only said that in the interviews in which he was promoting Sucker Punch. I think they already knew Sucker Punch was going to bomb, and Snyder was emphasizing the "realism" in Superman to distance it as much as possible from Sucker Punch.
So the whole "realism" talk is damage control to inform the general public that "no, Superman will be nothing like Sucker Punch; ignore Sucker Punch when thinking about my Superman movie", the effectiveness of that strategy will eventually be determined.
Hmm. Good point.

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Old 03-27-2011, 04:02 PM   #104
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I thought sucker punch was entertaining. there were a few points that i didnt like but the action, especially the nazi war parts were awesome. The fight scenes, cgi and effects were pretty impressive for a 80million dollar budget. i feel like this comination of nolan, goyer and snyder is an awesome combination. They all make up for each other's weakness. And for anyone that says nolan has no weaknesses, his fight scenes pretty much suck cuz you cant tell what the hell is going on.

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Old 03-27-2011, 08:15 PM   #105
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I thought sucker punch was entertaining. there were a few points that i didnt like but the action, especially the nazi war parts were awesome. The fight scenes, cgi and effects were pretty impressive for a 80million dollar budget. i feel like this comination of nolan, goyer and snyder is an awesome combination. They all make up for each other's weakness. And for anyone that says nolan has no weaknesses, his fight scenes pretty much suck cuz you cant tell what the hell is going on.


Jaime keeps bringing this up in the Snyder thread regarding Snyders alleged 3rd big budget misfire with Sucker Punch and I counter basically with facts below:

Still trying to push that "3rd big budget misfire" stuff huh?

Lets see the actual #'s from Box Office MoJo and please keep in mind both films were R rated and not meant to be family friendly films. This next Superman film will be for all ages but still be rated PG-13. It won't have any sexual stuff or heavy graphic violence involved.

300 (Box Office/Budget)

Theatrical Performance:
Total US Gross $210,614,939
International Gross $245,453,242
Worldwide Gross $456,068,181
Home Market Performance
US DVD Sales: $261,407,233

Production Budget: 60-65 million


Watchmen (Box Office/Budget)

Theatrical Performance:
Total US Gross $107,509,799
International Gross $76,558,558
Worldwide Gross $184,068,357
Home Market Performance
US DVD Sales: $52,645,476

Production Budget: 138 million

Both films made a profit despite being R rated films and not being family friendly. Not an easy thing to do.

So in reality Jamie...Sucker Punch seems to be Snyders' only real "bomb" and that didn't even have a big budget at around 75 million and the film was not a family friendly PG-13.

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Old 03-27-2011, 08:33 PM   #106
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Jaime keeps bringing this up in the Snyder thread regarding Snyders alleged 3rd big budget misfire with Sucker Punch and I counter basically with facts below:

Still trying to push that "3rd big budget misfire" stuff huh?

Lets see the actual #'s from Box Office MoJo and please keep in mind both films were R rated and not meant to be family friendly films. This next Superman film will be for all ages but still be rated PG-13. It won't have any sexual stuff or heavy graphic violence involved.

300 (Box Office/Budget)

Theatrical Performance:
Total US Gross $210,614,939
International Gross $245,453,242
Worldwide Gross $456,068,181
Home Market Performance
US DVD Sales: $261,407,233

Production Budget: 60-65 million


Watchmen (Box Office/Budget)

Theatrical Performance:
Total US Gross $107,509,799
International Gross $76,558,558
Worldwide Gross $184,068,357
Home Market Performance
US DVD Sales: $52,645,476

Production Budget: 138 million

Both films made a profit despite being R rated films and not being family friendly. Not an easy thing to do.

So in reality Jamie...Sucker Punch seems to be Snyders' only real "bomb" and that didn't even have a big budget at around 75 million and the film was not a family friendly PG-13.
Actually. Your numbers are correct but your interpretation of the numbers is not.
Yes, 300 was a success. 300 was what, five years ago?
Watchmen made 107 domestically, it cost 138 to make, not including marketing, etc.
What matters to the suits is the domestic take not the international:the international gross is interpreted differently (as I understand it they only get 1/4 of it, so it cannot be added to the domestic take like so..I'm not an expert on that so if anyone want to chime in on specifics, please do so..) So Watchmen underperformed.

Owls of Ga'hoole made 55 domestically and cost 85...

Sucker Punch cost at least 85 (that's not including marketing) and made
19 opening week and will likely end with 60 or less.

That's three under performing movies in a row: Watchmen, Owls, Suckerpunch.
The buzz is all over the net. That's likely why they released the Lois Lane casting info today, to get people talking about something else.
If the negative buzz continues, I'm sure they'll let us know who is playing Lex by the end of the week or even give us a picture of Henry in the suit, just to get Suckerpunch out of the news.
Hopefully, the failure of Sucker Punch will make Snyder think " oh ****, if I blow Superman, I can't go run off and make a Hitler movie with Tom Cruise or do X-men, I'm done! So Superman has to be my BEST WORK ever!"
and even after saying all that, I loved DotD, 300, and Watchmen.. I think Zack is an excellent choice for Superman and know that he has the potential to make it happen.
I'm just concerned that in the arena of public opinion, you know, those critics and that internet buzz that may make or break a movie before it even comes out, may just give the Man of Steel an undeserved black eye.
I want this movie to succeed; I want a trilogy!


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Old 03-27-2011, 09:02 PM   #107
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Actually. Your numbers are correct but your interpretation of the numbers is not.
Yes, 300 was a success. 300 was what, five years ago?
Watchmen made 107 domestically, it cost 138 to make, not including marketing, etc.
What matters to the suits is the domestic take not the international:the international gross is interpreted differently (as I understand it they only get 1/4 of it, so it cannot be added to the domestic take like so..I'm not an expert on that so if anyone want to chime in on specifics, please do so..) So Watchmen underperformed.

Owls of Ga'hoole made 55 domestically and cost 85...

Sucker Punch cost at least 85 (that's not including marketing) and made
19 opening week and will likely end with 60 or less.

That's three under performing movies in a row: Watchmen, Owls, Suckerpunch.
The buzz is all over the net. That's likely why they released the Lois Lane casting info today, to get people talking about something else.
If the negative buzz continues, I'm sure they'll let us know who is playing Lex by the end of the week or even give us a picture of Henry in the suit, just to get Suckerpunch out of the news.
Hopefully, the failure of Sucker Punch will make Snyder think " oh ****, if I blow Superman, I can't go run off and make a Hitler movie with Tom Cruise or do X-men, I'm done! So Superman has to be my BEST WORK ever!"
and even after saying all that, I loved DotD, 300, and Watchmen.. I think Zack is an excellent choice for Superman and know that he has the potential to make it happen.
I'm just concerned that in the arena of public opinion, you know, those critics and that internet buzz that may make or break a movie before it even comes out, may just give the Man of Steel an undeserved black eye.
I want this movie to succeed; I want a trilogy!
Why in gods name would they not be interested in the international box office?!? Thats just stupid. Racking up 19million in 2 days is a bomb? how so? It critically bombed but it will probably make back its budget.

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:09 PM   #108
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Why in gods name would they not be interested in the international box office?!? Thats just stupid. Racking up 19million in 2 days is a bomb? how so? It critically bombed but it will probably make back its budget.
A) You have to understand how these grosses actually work. Movie studios see about 50-55% of the domestic gross, and far less (like a previous poster said, average around 25%) of the international gross. The international gross matters, but is far less important than domestic gross. Also keep in mind that production budget doesn't count marketing costs. Watchmen, while not a bomb, was not a successful film financially.

B) 19 million for an opening weekend is not very good for a big time movie -- couple that with the bad buzz and large drop from Friday to Saturday and the movie is a flop.

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:10 PM   #109
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Why in gods name would they not be interested in the international box office?!? Thats just stupid. Racking up 19million in 2 days is a bomb? how so? It critically bombed but it will probably make back its budget.
Didn't SR do that too?

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:11 PM   #110
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Why in gods name would they not be interested in the international box office?!? Thats just stupid. Racking up 19million in 2 days is a bomb? how so? It critically bombed but it will probably make back its budget.
Studios get a less percentage of the international market than domestic. It's not a matter of not caring. Just one of caring more about the domestic box office.

As far as what Jamie said, yes Snyder's past films were budget misfires when you compare how much was spent on making and marketing those films to how much they made. Call it whatever you want: bomb, misfire, etc. In the end those three films did not perform the way any studio would want.

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:13 PM   #111
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A) You have to understand how these grosses actually work. Movie studios see about 50-55% of the domestic gross, and far less (like a previous poster said, average around 25%) of the international gross. The international gross matters, but is far less important than domestic gross. Also keep in mind that production budget doesn't count marketing costs. Watchmen, while not a bomb, was not a successful film financially.

B) 19 million for an opening weekend is not very good for a big time movie -- couple that with the bad buzz and large drop from Friday to Saturday and the movie is a flop.
I wouldnt call a 80million dollar budget "big time."

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:18 PM   #112
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I wouldnt call a 80million dollar budget "big time."
So what? Who cares what terminology is used?

19 mil opening for an 82 mil movie is a failure, plain and simple. The studio will take a loss on the film.

Regardless of what budget benchmark causes a film to be "big time" my point obviously still stands.

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:20 PM   #113
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wb obviously does'nt care and have big faith in zack since guaridans cost 80 million too and only made like 140 WW

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:26 PM   #114
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Default Re: Will Sucker Punch bombing affect Superman?

Two facts some people need to accept:

1) Snyder is not going to get the boot.
2) Nolan is not going to take over as director.

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:30 PM   #115
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Two facts some people need to accept:

1) Snyder is not going to get the boot.
2) Nolan is not going to take over as director.
Nolan doesn't need to. Just him thinking about the project will turn it into gold.


'Cuz...well...he's Christopher Goddamn Nolan!


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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:47 PM   #116
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Default Re: Will Sucker Punch bombing affect Superman?

Merriam-Webster Dictionary changed the word "winning" to "nolaning."

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:52 PM   #117
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Merriam-Webster Dictionary changed the word "winning" to "nolaning."
Before or after changing it to "Sheening."

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:54 PM   #118
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Merriam-Webster Dictionary changed the word "winning" to "nolaning."
Word is they're renaming the bible, too.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:56 PM   #119
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Before or after changing it to "Sheening."
You're thinking of "sheenial."

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:57 PM   #120
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Iam not worried about SP bombing. It doesn't reflect Superman at all. superman will be a very different creature from all the movies Snyder has done. I think superman will have a very modern real world feel and the look will be very real world(metropolis looking like a real city and not 300 stylized world) but the action will be very much his own.

I think the flying and the fight scenes will be completely different from what we've seen before. I still haven't seen superman flying and fighting in live action the way its done in the comics or in the many animated versions of the character. Yes some of the flying scenes in the past movies(specially superman the movie and to a lesser extent SR) have been good, but there's still room for a huge improvement and I think it is there were snyder's talents will shine the most. I know this doesn't have to do directly with the thread title but I think its one of the things that people are mostly worried about.

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Old 03-27-2011, 10:08 PM   #121
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Iam not worried about SP bombing. It doesn't reflect Superman at all. superman will be a very different creature from all the movies Snyder has done. I think superman will have a very modern real world feel and the look will be very real world(metropolis looking like a real city and not 300 stylized world) but the action will be very much his own.
I don't think action or unreal looks were SP problems.

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Old 03-27-2011, 10:17 PM   #122
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^i do think the over the top video game action might of turned off some viewers from seeing it

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Old 03-27-2011, 10:20 PM   #123
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^i do think the over the top video game action might of turned off some viewers from seeing it
That's kinda' like saying the humor in a Farrely Brothers movie is a distraction, though.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:41 PM   #124
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Default Re: Will Sucker Punch bombing affect Superman?

I'm not worried. Watchmen is a great film in my opinion; and 300 was also good. I look at Sucker Punch, however, as an experiment of sorts that just didn't work. It was visually appealing though.

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Old 03-27-2011, 10:53 PM   #125
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I think the studio can accept that Snyder hasn't done a 700 million dollar blockbuster but he's been able to cross a monetary value that other directors can't do. And again those films had a limited market. Superman may be the blockbuster do to it being able to reach everybody.

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