The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2011, 09:26 AM   #76
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
It's just that it (emotion/substance) had to be pried out of Watchmen, instead of inviting the viewer to absorb it. But a large number of viewers either weren't prepared (by knowing the comic) or willing (not knowing the comic) to exert themselves in that way while watching.
Nope.

It was there for all to see. It wasn't hidden behind anything. Yes, I had read the comic beforehand. But my friends who loved the movie and understood it had not.

Pried out? You weren't looking deep enough in the first place if you think that.

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:34 AM   #77
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
Nope.
Yep.

See what I did there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
It was there for all to see. It wasn't hidden behind anything. Yes, I had read the comic beforehand. But my friends who loved the movie and understood it had not.

Pried out? You weren't looking deep enough in the first place if you think that.
It's more a matter of taste/preference, not a matter of fact or ability. For every one of your friends above, I or anyone else could have one or more that felt differently. Neither is any more right or wrong for feeling/reacting the way they did about it. But there is a strong division and, I think, legitimate reasons for it in the film. But hey, leaving audiences divided could be a good thing as well if you go into something prepared for that possibility. I think Snyder was aware enough that even if he did it the best he could, it still wouldn't be for 'everyone'....not particularly because of an R-Rated comic-based film, but because of the particulars of the story and how faithfully he intended to translate it. I found it to be a good job of translating the comic from one format to another, but ultimately not a good film to watch.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)

Last edited by KalMart; 03-28-2011 at 09:38 AM.
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:37 AM   #78
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
Nah it was pretty great. But that wasn't the claim. He said "no convincing emotion", which is false.

I think these people that say he's all flash and no substance just can't see the substance because they're distracted by the flash.
Snyder's movies have as much substance as it's left from the original material/script. If the original material is very emotional some of this will transfer to the final movie. For a director as visual as Snyder is this is a lot to say.

Watchmen and 300 had substance and emotion, but it was the reflection of what there was in the originals. Snyder, much to his recognition, keeps a lot of this, but he's far from a director able to produce legitimate emotion out of his own skills. The moment he works with his own material he's as insubtantial as it goes. Had Snyder tried to do his own "dark and realistic superhero group" movie, it would have been miles under what Watchmen the movie was.

El Payaso is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:39 AM   #79
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
Yep.

See what I did there?

It's more a matter of taste/preference, not a matter of fact or ability. For every one of your friends above, I or anyone else could have one or more that felt differently. Neither is any more right or wrong for feeling/reacting the way they did about it. But there is a strong division and, I think, legitimate reasons for it in the film. But hey, leaving audiences divided could be a good thing as well if you go into something prepared for that possibility.
It's not about taste or preference. You claimed that any emotion had to be pried out. That simply isn't the case, as there were many scenes that existed purely for the emotion of the character involved (see Dr. Manhattan's flashbacks on Mars, Rorschach's death scene) That is undeniable.

The only way taste and preference comes into that is whether you thought it was effective or not.

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:41 AM   #80
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

At this point...it's different strokes. We can keep going in circled with this. I just wonder how he's going to 'change' his approach for Supes.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:43 AM   #81
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Snyder's movies have as much substance as it's left from the original material/script. If the original material is very emotional some of this will transfer to the final movie. For a director as visual as Snyder is this is a lot to say.

Watchmen and 300 had substance and emotion, but it was the reflection of what there was in the originals. Snyder, much to his recognition, keeps a lot of this, but he's far from a director able to produce legitimate emotion out of his own skills. The moment he works with his own material he's as insubtantial as it goes. Had Snyder tried to do his own "dark and realistic superhero group" movie, it would have been miles under what Watchmen the movie was.
Bull. Because if Snyder was really as bad as you claim he would have completely failed at expressing the emotion within the script, but that didn't happen. So it's clear that he has the ability to handle substance.

Are you correct that when he is on his own he has the tendency to lose his way? Yes, and that's what has happened with Sucker Punch.

But are you correct that Watchmen's script did all the hard work for him? No.

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:48 AM   #82
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
It's not about taste or preference. You claimed that any emotion had to be pried out. That simply isn't the case as there were many scenes that existed purely for the emotion of the character involved (see Dr. Manhattan's flashbacks on Mars, Rorschach's death scene)
It is the case for people who experienced it that way. And I didn't say it wasn't there....because it was, technically, there....being spoken, cried, etc. Did viewers actually feel it though? Some did, some didn't....even though they knew it was 'there'. If they don't feel it involuntarily, that's when you feel like you have to pry in order to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
That is undeniable.
it's also undeniable that just because it's recognized doesn't mean it's felt....and whether it is or not can't just be attributed to a shortcoming or success on the audience's part. It's also the responsibility of how it's presented....not just what's presented item for item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
The only way taste and preference comes into that is whether you thought it was effective or not.
See above.

But again, agree to disagree.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:53 AM   #83
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
It is the case for people who experienced it that way. And I didn't say it wasn't there....because it was, technically, there....being spoken, cried, etc. Did viewers actually feel it though? Some did, some didn't....even though they knew it was 'there'.


it's also undeniable that just because it's recognized doesn't mean it's felt....and whether it is or not can't just be attributed to a shortcoming or success on the audience's part. It's also the responsibility of how it's presented....not just what's presented item for item.


See above.

But again, agree to disagree.
Listen, if there's one thing I can't stand it's arguments about opinion. What you are saying about emotion being interpreted by the audience is true, and it's the directors responsibility to convey that emotion... But that goes for every single movie ever. It is not anything inherent to Snyder's work that emotion has to be analysed.

What you are saying does not prove that emotion has to be 'pried out' from his movies, because by your logic, this could be argued for every director, depending on the audience.

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:54 AM   #84
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Well, it's unfortunate that you feel bothered by someone having a different opinion than yours. I don't...but I guess that's just me, in this case.

And yes, it can apply to any director and any audience...if the film presents it like that. Sometimes, you can present something where you know an audience might not know how to feel about it....you leave it purposely vague and open to interpretation. But I would guess that the moments of emotion that you brought up were meant to feel emotional in a specific way...but for some it just didn't take. It doesn't mean the audience is purposely ignoring it or what have you...it's just not doing it for them.

But hey...different opinions and what not, etc.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)

Last edited by KalMart; 03-28-2011 at 10:01 AM.
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:56 AM   #85
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
Well, it's unfortunate that you feel bothered by someone having a different opinion than yours. I don't...but I guess that's just me, in this case.
That's what you got from this discussion?

I don't care about your opinion. I just disagree with your claim.

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:05 AM   #86
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
That's what you got from this discussion?
No, that's what I got from this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
Listen, if there's one thing I can't stand it's arguments about opinion.
...because all this really is is a difference of opinion, and presenting differing sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
I don't care about your opinion.
It's just the argument part that bothers you...got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
I just disagree with your claim.
You don't say.

Agree to disagree.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:07 AM   #87
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

[QUOTE=KalMart;19950387]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
That's what you got from this discussion?

No, that's what I got from this...


...because all this really is is a difference of opinion, and presnting differing sides.


It's just the argument part that bothers you...got it.


You don't say.

Agree to disagree.
Arguments about opinion. As in, the argument is based on the subject of opinions and how they differ. Not arguments where we discuss our opinion.

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:09 AM   #88
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

It's like a riddle wrapped in a question.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:14 AM   #89
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
Bull. Because if Snyder was really as bad as you claim he would have completely failed at expressing the emotion within the script, but that didn't happen. So it's clear that he has the ability to handle substance.
And have I ever said he was totally unable to do so? No, I said he is able to convey emotion but just if the script is full of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKŪ View Post
Are you correct that when he is on his own he has the tendency to lose his way? Yes, and that's what has happened with Sucker Punch.

But are you correct that Watchmen's script did all the hard work for him? No.
Did much of it, not all of it otherwise they wouldn't have needed a director. But when the script is not doing the hard work, Snyder can't deliver, as you said.

El Payaso is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:26 AM   #90
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
And have I ever said he was totally unable to do so? No, I said he is able to convey emotion but just if the script is full of that.
I think that because of the material in Watchmen, there so much to try and absorb...stylistically, thematically, atmospherically, etc....that when it comes to the more emotional or subtle stuff, it's a bit overwhelmed by everything else. That's one of the reasons why I felt...even before the movie came out...that it would've made a better HBO miniseries type of thing than trying to fit it all into one feature film. Y'know...spread it out more to give the elements more space, and more elbow room to sink in without crowding/clashing as much with eachother. Of course, it would have taken a hell of a lot of money, but there was a ton spent on 'Rome', for example. I just think that something that wasn't confined to just 2-ish hours would also help mirror the pacing of the bigger graphic novel, as well.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 01:58 PM   #91
GoblinWhirlwind
Friend to Captain Solo
 
GoblinWhirlwind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Land of the '3 Suns'
Posts: 9,410
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Some people just want to hate Snyder.

__________________
"Toby has been cruising for a bruising for 12 years, and
I am now his cruise director, and my name is Captain Bruising."

- Michael Scott
GoblinWhirlwind is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:46 PM   #92
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
I think that because of the material in Watchmen, there so much to try and absorb...stylistically, thematically, atmospherically, etc....that when it comes to the more emotional or subtle stuff, it's a bit overwhelmed by everything else.
Well, the material can be approached differently. I'd say Snyder chose the style first and let the emotion to the actors' skills. I might be wrong but that's what I got from the movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
That's one of the reasons why I felt...even before the movie came out...that it would've made a better HBO miniseries type of thing than trying to fit it all into one feature film. Y'know...spread it out more to give the elements more space, and more elbow room to sink in without crowding/clashing as much with eachother. Of course, it would have taken a hell of a lot of money, but there was a ton spent on 'Rome', for example. I just think that something that wasn't confined to just 2-ish hours would also help mirror the pacing of the bigger graphic novel, as well.
Yes, I agree that WEatchmen was very hard to approach. And to sum it up in just one movie was a huge risk. Two movies looked more reasonable. Snyder didn't have it easy, that's for sure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinWhirlwind View Post
Some people just want to hate Snyder.
No, you see, every director has fans but also people who don't like his movies. It's nothing personal.

El Payaso is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #93
JAKŪ
Upstart
 
JAKŪ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Well, the material can be approached differently. I'd say Snyder chose the style first and let the emotion to the actors' skills. I might be wrong but that's what I got from the movie.
Yeah, we can't be giving Snyder that much credit, can we?

__________________
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
You are now breathing manually.
JAKŪ



JAKŪ is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:55 PM   #94
Astrodust
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,615
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

No to start stop slow-mo. That's all I have to say.

Astrodust is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:21 PM   #95
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrodust View Post
No to start stop slow-mo. That's all I have to say.
I never had a problem with that in his movies, actually. I think it's used well in his films....and I could definitely see it coming into play with Superman.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:24 PM   #96
RoughNTumble
i m not desperate
 
RoughNTumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,078
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
I never had a problem with that in his movies, actually. I think it's used well in his films....and I could definitely see it coming into play with Superman.
Yeah I'm indifferent towards it in regular sequences, but it would be pretty cool in fight scenes.

I'm not sure he'll have time to do too much slow motion if the pace of the script compares to nolan's batman movies.

__________________
Grandparents dead - please no jokes

Make mine DC, if you please.

every1 says im 2 aloof but idc
RoughNTumble is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:36 PM   #97
SuperAl
Superman's back!
 
SuperAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,598
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

i love slow motion, just lets you see more thats going on. Plus if your gonna have superpowered people fighting who both move faster than a speeding bullet i dont see how you cant use it.

SuperAl is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:38 PM   #98
terry78
Smiling is for sellouts
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 58,551
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Singer used slo-mo to good effect in SR with the guy firing the gatling gun at Supes as it slowed down for a few seconds then immediately went back to real-time.

__________________
The best leaders never want to be leaders.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:41 PM   #99
Zack Snyder
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,184
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalMart View Post
I never had a problem with that in his movies, actually. I think it's used well in his films....and I could definitely see it coming into play with Superman.
This.

And to add, it would look great ala punching scenes like in the Matrix Revolutions film.

Zack Snyder is offline  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:43 PM   #100
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,876
Default Re: The Official Zack Snyder Thread - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
Yeah I'm indifferent towards it in regular sequences, but it would be pretty cool in fight scenes.

I'm not sure he'll have time to do too much slow motion if the pace of the script compares to nolan's batman movies.
Well...I'd guess that exactly how the action sequences will be shot and composed/paced will be up to Snyder. the actual amount of slo-mo, or number of slo-mo shots wont really affect the overall length of sequences as much as the writen an composed full sequence itself.

For example...in Matrix Reloaded...that really long/drawn-out action scene that starts in the castle then goes to the highway et al....way too long, and even if you turned all the slo-mo shots in that to regular-speed, the sequence would still feel too long. From what I've seen in Snyder's films, the timing/pacing is fine when it comes to action....it's one of his biggest strengths, really.

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2014 All Rights Reserved.