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Old 02-20-2012, 11:46 AM   #251
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

God, what a dick. I very much doubt that happened.

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Old 02-28-2012, 03:41 AM   #252
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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Toberoff is appealing his loss in the Marvel case now accusing that Stan Lee has threatened his brother to get him to testify in favor of Marvel.
The Kirby case? I doubt Stan had to threaten Larry to testify for Marvel. Marvel has ****ed Kirby for decades, and Lee and his family were a big part of that-Martin Goodman (Stan's Uncle and Timely/Marvel's publisher) mostly, of course.

I wish that the Siegel and Shuster heirs and Kirby's family had hired an attorney that was just out for their interests-Toberoff is a complete douche.

Oh, the details of the Kane deal with DC have never been released, but they are known to be very favorable to the family and you never hear a peep out of them wanting more money.

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Old 03-27-2012, 05:49 AM   #253
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

From Deadline:
Warner Bros Wants Rights Fight With Superman Heirs Decided In Trial
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Originally Posted by Dominic Patten
In a strategic move in the copyright battle between Warner Bros and the heirs to Superman’s creators, the studio has filed an appeal to reverse earlier rulings in the case and put everything out in open court in a trial. “This long-running dispute should be brought to an end,” Warner Bros wrote in a dense 117-page appeal (read it here) filed Friday with the 9th Circuit Court. In typical Hollywood legalities, the move actually resolves nothing — expect to see a response from the heirs and then another back from Warner Bros, and all off it to end up one way or another in the Appellate Court sometime in the late summer or early fall.

Through the courts, the estate of Superman co-creator Jerry Siegel recaptured half of the original Superman rights in 2008, with the estate of co-creator Joe Shuster to do the same in 2013. Warner Bros, which owns longtime Superman publisher DC Comics, disagrees with those decisions. “This case is about the ownership of copyright in the earliest comics that introduced elements of the iconic Superman character and story,” the appeal from Warners lawyer Daniel Petrocelli states. “The case presents an unusually broad array of doctrinal, factual, and procedural issues. But much of the case reduces to a familiar proposition: a deal is a deal.”

Warners contends that Laura Siegel Larson, the heir to the Siegel estate, “reneged” on a copyright deal with DC that “guaranteed the family many millions of dollars in cash, royalties, and other compensation.” In its call to have the issue decided by trial, the studio says “the family asserted there was no deal without a long form and the district court agreed, casting aside established California contract law principles — principles essential to the entertainment industry, where many business deals are never formalized.” The latest legal move by Warner Bros follows a win last year in the matter, when Judge Otis Wright tossed out a First Amendment suit by Marc Toberoff, a rights lawyer for the heirs.

None of this will have any immediate effect on the upcoming Zack Snyder-directed Superman reboot Man Of Steel, scheduled to be released June 14, 2013, or any potential sequels from that property.

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:05 PM   #254
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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The S&S lawsuit is different though because regardless of how bad the deal was...the creators did sell(and, in a sense, give up ownership of) the character to WB.
And then Congress (at corporations' request) extended copyrights with the provision that original authors and their heirs could reclaim rights for the extended period.

The irony is that if WB/DC let Superman fall into the public domain they could use their trademarks to prevent anyone else from using Superman in a recognizable manner and there's plenty of Superman related supporting characters, villains, etc. that are without dispute owned by WB and DC. Luthor, Brainiac, the Phantom Zone, Kryptonite, the Fortress of Solitude, Lana Lang, Jimmy Olsen, The Daily Planet, etc.

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #255
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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The irony is that if WB/DC let Superman fall into the public domain they could use their trademarks to prevent anyone else from using Superman in a recognizable manner and there's plenty of Superman related supporting characters, villains, etc. that are without dispute owned by WB and DC. Luthor, Brainiac, the Phantom Zone, Kryptonite, the Fortress of Solitude, Lana Lang, Jimmy Olsen, The Daily Planet, etc.
Indeed. DC turned Superman into gold. Without DC, he'd be long forgotten already. I hope S&S get exactly 0.00$ out of this. And Toberoff should get a *beep beep* *beep* *censored* *R-rated* *******.

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:18 PM   #256
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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Indeed. DC turned Superman into gold. Without DC, he'd be long forgotten already. I hope S&S get exactly 0.00$ out of this. And Toberoff should get a *beep beep* *beep* *censored* *R-rated* *******.
This lawsuit only arose because WB were not paying the royalties they were contractually obliged to, once Siegel & Shuster died. WB really does deserve a kicking, but to butcher the character would be a loss to everyone.

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #257
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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Indeed. DC turned Superman into gold. Without DC, he'd be long forgotten already. I hope S&S get exactly 0.00$ out of this. And Toberoff should get a *beep beep* *beep* *censored* *R-rated* *******.
And, without Siegel and Shuster there likely would be no DC.

Too bad you don't understand what the law says. At no time did National think they were buying the rights to Superman forever, but only for the length of copyright. There was zero expectation in 1938 that National would still own the copyright in 2012, from either side.

Ultimately, I think a settlement will be worked out. Siegel and Shuster's heirs are legally entitled to reclaim their copyright but there's little reason that a Bob Kane type agreement can't be reached that benefits both sides.

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:47 PM   #258
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And, without Siegel and Shuster there likely would be no DC.
You are a funny guy!

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Old 03-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #259
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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Indeed. DC turned Superman into gold. Without DC, he'd be long forgotten already. I hope S&S get exactly 0.00$ out of this. And Toberoff should get a *beep beep* *beep* *censored* *R-rated* *******.
That train has already left the station. A court has ruled that S&S are entitled to royalties dating from 1999 (copyright termination) onwards. I believer they’re still arguing about how much that amounts to. And, of course, the threat now is that S&S will just walk away with their half of “Superman” (the contents of Action Comics #1) in 2013.

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Old 03-27-2012, 02:27 PM   #260
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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That train has already left the station. A court has ruled that S&S are entitled to royalties dating from 1999 (copyright termination) onwards. I believer they’re still arguing about how much that amounts to. And, of course, the threat now is that S&S will just walk away with their half of “Superman” (the contents of Action Comics #1) in 2013.
The only problem for S & S is that walking away will do nothing for them. Nobody is going to want to touch a character like superman knowing that whatever they do with it WB's legal team will be breathing down their necks if they so much as hint to a piece WB owns.

Not to mention WB's attempts to remove their lawyer, Toberoff, from the case.

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Old 03-27-2012, 03:13 PM   #261
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

Correct.

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Old 03-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #262
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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The only problem for S & S is that walking away will do nothing for them. Nobody is going to want to touch a character like superman knowing that whatever they do with it WB's legal team will be breathing down their necks if they so much as hint to a piece WB owns.

Not to mention WB's attempts to remove their lawyer, Toberoff, from the case.
They got all of Toberoff's "privileged information" arguments thrown out (A huge win) and now they're saying, "Let's go to trial?"

Yeah. They know their chances are good and, no doubt, have more dirt.

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Old 03-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #263
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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You are a funny guy!
There'd be no Batman without Superman coming first and National asking Kane to pitch another superhero. The whole pop culture landscape would be vastly different.

That said, it doesn't really matter what is ideal, the law is pretty clear at this point. Siegel's heirs have been able to reclaim their share of the copyright of the original, non-work for hire work, Shuster's heirs, have an opportunity to reclaim their share in 2013, and DC/WB still owns the trademarks and a vast amount of the material that defines Superman as he is today. Nobody's walking away with everything, so the sooner an agreement is struck the sooner everyone can move along. Much of the court case is merely about maximizing leverage. And WB is sending out the signal that they'll fight tooth and claw and you're better off settling early, instead of being like Siegel's widow and dieing before a settlement is arrived at.

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Old 03-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #264
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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They got all of Toberoff's "privileged information" arguments thrown out (A huge win) and now they're saying, "Let's go to trial?"

Yeah. They know their chances are good and, no doubt, have more dirt.
Of course, for them to be so willing to go to trial they know they have the upper hand now. Coupled with the fact that WB has proposed settlements.

Toberoff was screwed from the beginning if he made that deal with the family to own a large part of the rights if they won, thats a huge conflict of interest that the court is not going to be happy about.

Especially is he advised them not to settle.

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Old 04-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #265
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

WB just won another key Superman court ruling.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr...shuster-312982

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Old 04-17-2012, 05:49 PM   #266
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

Wow, this case just got more interesting.

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Old 04-17-2012, 10:24 PM   #267
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

It's nowhere near over, but both Toberoff and David Michaels are clearly big-time crooks.

Sad thing is, in a genre where the characters fight for justice, almost every major superhero has had at least one of their creators get ripped off, either by publishers like Siegel and Shuster and Jack Kirby, or by the other creator like how Bob Kane ripped off Bill Finger.

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Old 04-18-2012, 10:08 AM   #268
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

If WB win, does this mean Superman can have his old suit back?

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:23 AM   #269
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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If WB win, does this mean Superman can have his old suit back?
They didn't change it because of the lawsuit. It's still showing up in animated movies, the Earth One graphic novels, and various ads.

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:25 AM   #270
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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They didn't change it because of the lawsuit. It's still showing up in animated movies, the Earth One graphic novels, and various ads.
Actually they did.

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #271
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

Why can they use it in the other stuff?

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:56 AM   #272
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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Actually they did.
Goddamn tossers!

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Old 04-18-2012, 12:09 PM   #273
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

Eh, I'm glad they changed the suit. It looks fine in the pictures to me and hopefully it looks good on screen.

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Old 04-18-2012, 12:20 PM   #274
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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If WB win, does this mean Superman can have his old suit back?
Most of these recent WB legal “victories” are side issues having to do with “WB vs. Toberoff.” They don’t really address the basics of the S&S copyright recovery. That’s solid; so it’s still a question of $$$.

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Old 04-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #275
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

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Eh, I'm glad they changed the suit. It looks fine in the pictures to me and hopefully it looks good on screen.
That's not the point. I'm pretty pleased with the new suit too, but the design-department has clearly been restricted then, which is just annoying in generel. And yes, I would've liked to have seen what the suit COULD've looked like.

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