The Borgias

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by Spidey-Bat

I meant to bold the part of the construction.

You are right on the Basilica. Was it ever shown in an episode because I don't recall it.



Yes. The ACII DLC with Savanarola is appropriately called Bonfire of the Vanities. You can skip Battle of Forli DLC though. It takes about 45 minutes and is 90% combat. I disagree on ACII being better simply because of how much more enjoyable the fighting is. Waiting to counter was so painfully tedious.

The fighting becomes better with each game. But the improvements of ACB (riding a horse in the city, having an assassin army to recruit, etc.) felt more like tweaks than innovations. The most clever new gameplay conceit was having to liberate all of Rome from Borgia control by taking down The Borgia Towers which was very fun. Otherwise it felt like a whole new city for ACII. That's not a bad thing. But being stuck in Rome the whole time got kind of boring. Especially as Rome was not nearly as aesthetically impressive or fun to explore as Florence and Venice were in ACII. And while The Borgias were better villains than ACII starting with the Pazzi family and then being vague about a "Spaniard" (though it led to a great reveal at the end), the gameplay just seemed more varied and innovative in ACII, I thought.

Thanks for the info. I may download that. The Battle of Flori could be fun as Caterina Sforza was such an interesting woman, though likely not as nice as she appears in ACB, but a mission surrounding the Bonfire of the Vanities? Now that sounds like a fun game.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Speedball

"My name is Ezio Auditore di Firenze. I am here to kill Rodrigo Borgia."
*whistles; Assassin Brotherhood appears out of nowhere*

All of a sudden I thought of the Princess Bride, but in the role of Ezio instead of Inigo Montoya, haha.

"My name is Ezio Auditore di Firenze. You killed my father, prepare to die!"

Originally Posted by AnorexicBatman

Season Finale! Imagine how awesome that would be! Assassin's Creed has the makings of a FANTASTIC science-fiction cum historical drama series

If not a movie franchise, a series would be fantastic nonetheless. And in that aspect, they could start it in the year 2010 with two years of Desmond going through era after era and figuring out out to stop Earth's destruction in 2012.

I know people will take this as an insult comparing a brilliant drama to some stupid video game but Assassin's Creed is anything but. I'll definitely keep my eye on this and hope for a real Assassin's Creed show someday.

Well, I can say that the Assassin's Creed series is definitely NOT just some stupid game(well, maybe the games OUTSIDE of the 360 ones, lol). IF Ubisoft pulls an Activision and destroys the franchise, then yes, it will be a dumbed-down series in the future, but if we finally get a real ending to an amazing series, AC will be known as the finest franchise on the 360 console, imo. And to even teach some players of history is another added bonus of what makes these games freaking spectacular. Some of the stuff isn't true to history, but still, it gives you a lot of background.

[Spidey-Bat]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

The fighting becomes better with each game. But the improvements of ACB (riding a horse in the city, having an assassin army to recruit, etc.) felt more like tweaks than innovations. The most clever new gameplay conceit was having to liberate all of Rome from Borgia control by taking down The Borgia Towers which was very fun. Otherwise it felt like a whole new city for ACII. That's not a bad thing. But being stuck in Rome the whole time got kind of boring. Especially as Rome was not nearly as aesthetically impressive or fun to explore as Florence and Venice were in ACII. And while The Borgias were better villains than ACII starting with the Pazzi family and then being vague about a "Spaniard" (though it led to a great reveal at the end), the gameplay just seemed more varied and innovative in ACII, I thought.

Thanks for the info. I may download that. The Battle of Flori could be fun as Caterina Sforza was such an interesting woman, though likely not as nice as she appears in ACB, but a mission surrounding the Bonfire of the Vanities? Now that sounds like a fun game.

From what I recall, Caterina doesn't do much other than one particularly funny moment. The end of the Forli DLC does tie in with the Bonfire of the Vanities DLC. I'd just watch the cutscenes on YouTube though.

[kvz5]

http://www.deadline.com/2011/04/show...second-season/

Showtime Renews Drama Series 'The Borgias' For Second Season

The Borgias will be back. Showtime today renewed the costume drama starring Jeremy Irons for a second season with a 10-episode order. The series, from creator Neil Jordan, debuted earlier this month with 1.06 million viewers, the pay cable network's largest premiere audience for a drama series in seven years. (The cumed audience for the pilot across multiple platforms has reached 3.71 million). As it moved from 9 PM to 10 PM after the premiere, the original airing ratings dipped but the averages over multiple runs have remained consistent and, season-to-date, The Borgias, set in Renaissance Italy, is pacing ahead of the highest-rated season of Showtime's previous period drama, The Tudors. Showtime had already commissioned additional scripts, which are being written by Jordan. Production of Season 2 will begin in the summer for a 2012 premiere. "Neil Jordan's cleverly crafted tale of a 15th century papal family has proven quickly addictive," Showtime's entertainment president David Nevins said. "It's a tribute to his incredible skills as an auteur and to the extraordinary cast led by Jeremy Irons that this show fits so seamlessly into our line-up of quality shows."

Oscar-winner Irons stars as Rodrigo Borgia, the cunning, manipulative patriarch of The Borgia family who builds an empire by bribing, buying and muscling his way into the papacy. Along the way, the family commits virtually every sin in the book and invents more than a few of their own. Jordan will continue to serve as executive producer, writer and will again direct the first two episodes. Accompanying Jordan this season is writer and director David Leland (Band of Brothers) who will write several episodes and also direct two episodes. The series will again be produced as a Canadian-Irish-Hungarian Treaty co-production by DreamWorks TV and Robert Zemeckis' ImageMovers banner. The future of the other two Showtime original series currently on the air, comedies Nurse Jackie and United States of Tara, is yet to be determined. Both have been soft in the ratings, but for now, Nurse Jackie, the stronger performer of the two, looks good, while it seems unlikely that Tara will be renewed.

[Spidey-Bat]

Quit coincidental since DACrowe and I were discussing it's mini-series status in the Camelot thread. I hope Irons returns though I expect him to die at the end of the season.

[DACrowe]

I don't understand why he would die. The show seems to be set around 1492. They've condensed some events from 1493-1494 and perhaps the show spreads several years and they're being intentionally vague....but Pope Alexander did not die until 1503 and at that point everything unravels for the Borgia family. You cannot do a show without Rodrigo as Pope and you can't do history justice if you kill off Rodrigo as he is so vital as to what happens to Cesare's future. And trust me, Cesare will be the engine that pushes this show.

I stand by my prediction that the season finale (or at least the last two episodes) will be about Cesare killing Juan and replacing him as Captain General after leaving the cloth while Rodrigo annuls Lucrezia's marriage and she begins a new torrid affair.

Which sets up nicely for what I think will happen to Lucrezia at the beginning of next season.

[DACrowe]

So.....

ANOTHER GREAT EPISODE!

Emmanuel Chirque(sp?) as the hot seductress wife of the little Borgia? Great casting and I like how they incorporated the rumor that Juan was all over his little brother's wife. Using the Last Supper table was just the perfect payoff of that set-up.

I also really liked its interpretation of the French King (Charles I) as he prepares for war in Italy after the Hundred Years War. Given Cesare's future, he will be a great recurring character methinks.

Lastly, I'm glad Ursula is already gone as her character just didn't work for me and her chemistry with Cesare was stilted to say the least. So that frees him up while Jeremy Irons finally has more to do after a few episodes with his aggressive smack down of Juan as well as the sweet/creepy reconciliation with Lucrezia.

All in all, while Game of Thrones is better, I think this is my favorite new show.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah, very good episode. I like how Lucrezia was being nice to her husband whilst cheating on him (not that I can blame her).

Joffrey is lucky to have such a hot wife, too bad Juan is the one banging her.

I'm with you on Ursula (didn't even catch her name during the show), never did anything for me and I don't get why Cesare was so into her.

[Colossal Spoons]

Lucrezia's mid-coitus counting cracks me up.

[DACrowe]

....A French Apocalypse.

Wow, the tension is ramping up. That was awesome. Della Roverie(sp?) is a real tool. I despise the character now. I also loved how resourceful Lucrezia was in hurting her husband and how the Sforzas betrayed the Borgias. I look forward to Rodrigo and Cesare's revenge next season.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah, things are really turning up. Kind of hard to gauge how much time has passed, but I think it's safe to assume Paolo the father of Lucrezia's baby is which is probably going to get him killed. I don't really hate Della Rovere. He's an ******* but it's not like Rodrigo is a saint.

Geoffrey's wife is so hot.

[DACrowe]

Rodrigo didn't start a war that appears to be leaving thousands of men, women and children dead in its wake all so he could become Pope. Della Rovere was more likable at the start of the season when he seemed to be about reforming the Church, but now it appears he is nothing but a power-hungry opportunist upset that he lost the political fight for the Chair of St. Peter.

Rodrigo and the Borgias become....very slimy as time goes on, but right now Della Rovere's invitation to French invasion dwarfs any assassination plot we've yet seen on the show.

And of course Geoffrey's wife is hot. She's played by Emmanuelle Chiriquie/Sloan from Entourage. She was not cast for acting in this show.

[Spidey-Bat]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

Rodrigo didn't start a war that appears to be leaving thousands of men, women and children dead in its wake all so he could become Pope. Della Rovere was more likable at the start of the season when he seemed to be about reforming the Church, but now it appears he is nothing but a power-hungry opportunist upset that he lost the political fight for the Chair of St. Peter.

Rodrigo and the Borgias become....very slimy as time goes on, but right now Della Rovere's invitation to French invasion dwarfs any assassination plot we've yet seen on the show.

I still like him even if he is a villain. To be fair, he didn't want the bloodshed on the way to Rome and Naples.

And of course Geoffrey's wife is hot. She's played by Emmanuelle Chiriquie/Sloan from Entourage. She was not cast for acting in this show.

As long as most of her scenes are sex scenes, I'm fine with that.

I hope Lucrezia's husband gets humiliated this season, I don't want to wait until next season.

[DACrowe]

Well it's safe to say Lucrezia isn't going back, but I don't know if we'll see his humiliation this season. I wouldn't say Della Roverie is a villain...I don't think the show has a villain per se beyond Lucrezia's husband. They're all vile. But Machiavelli was right several episodes ago when he called Della Roverie out on his pious self-righteousness being a guise or mental justification for his power play. The tables between the rivals may turn again as the Borgias become tyrants in later seasons.

[DACrowe]

Ahem....

This is in an attempt to raise awareness of the show.

[Spidey-Bat]

It looks like it's just me and you. Everyone else is too busy watching Game of Thrones.

[DACrowe]

I can understand that. I think Game of Thrones is the better show and I watch it every week....but I think I enjoy and am entertained by The Borgias more. I'm kind of disappointed that Camelot has more buzz around here than this show.

So, here's hoping the avy works. Perhaps if I get one with Cesare and Lucrezia and sell the incest angle?

Don't look at me like that! It worked for Game of Thrones.

[Spidey-Bat]

Well, Camelot has the King Arthur appeal. No matter how famous the Borgias were, it's hard to top that. There's also nothing else on Friday nights. I haven't watched Game of Thrones in a few weeks. I have to watch the 3 on Slingbox and I rather watch GoT when I get back home since it can be a bit tricky to follow.

I too like the Borgias more if only because of Assassin's Creed.

I was actually thinking earlier, Borgias, Camelot, and GoT will all have incest at some point.

[Heisenberg]

I've been watching this, it's very good. I didn't enjoy Camelot at all and stopped watching, but The Borgias is on par with Game Of Thrones for me, I love both shows.

[Spidey-Bat]

Do I watch this tonight on my computer with Slingbox or wait until tomorrow when I can watch it on my HD TV at home?

[Primal Slayer]

Originally Posted by The Basterd

I've been watching this, it's very good. I didn't enjoy Camelot at all and stopped watching, but The Borgias is on par with Game Of Thrones for me, I love both shows.

Same here. Im wondering what they will do about Lucrezias pregnancy..either try to sleep with him real quick to try to pass it as his, or have him killed somehow or just run away.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by The Basterd

I've been watching this, it's very good. I didn't enjoy Camelot at all and stopped watching, but The Borgias is on par with Game Of Thrones for me, I love both shows.

Ditto. I gave up on Camelot 2 weeks ago but I'm still equally hooked on both this and GoT.

[DACrowe]

So, yeah. It was another great episode. It started slow but how they did the battle scene with Juan (stupidly) walking into cannon fire and Lucrezia negotiating terms by flirtation was amazing. And the scene between the Pope and his two sons at the end was great. It foreshadows what I predict will happen at the end of the season finale (why put off such a great moment until season 2?). Lucrezia is really coming into her own and as a little manipulator. All par for the course.

Same here. Im wondering what they will do about Lucrezias pregnancy..either try to sleep with him real quick to try to pass it as his, or have him killed somehow or just run away.

Well if you really want to know this is how it played out in history....

After the Sforza betrayal, they fall out of favor with the Sforzas (which will have bloody consequences in either season 2 or 3). But in the immediate aftermath, the Pope annuls Lucrezia's marriage with Giovanni under the claim that it was never consummated because the Pope declares Giovanni impotent (I don't know if in the show, Cesare and Micheletto may make it a reality for TV audiences). They then hide her away in a nunnery to have her baby in secret and then eventually pass it off as her "brother" had by Cesare out of wedlock. As for the stable boy who was the father....things don't end well for him when Cesare finds out and he ends up at the bottom of a river.

Those are some big spoilers, so be warned.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah, another great episode. I couldn't believe how stupid Juan was thinking cannons were useless. Then again, it was 500 years ago.

I definitely like how Lucrezia has been developing. She's gone from a naive, ignorant girl to a cunning woman.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Looks like Micheletto will take care of Giovanni Sforza either next episode or next season.

[Heisenberg]

Well it was clear when he stated that they had only recently developed the chained cannonballs that they had not been using them often, and Italy seemed oblivious to their function other than "Tearing down walls". Regardless, this was another good episode, and I can't believe next week is the finale. Went by so fast.