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Old 04-20-2014, 05:30 PM   #276
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

I wish both were never in the movies. Worst. love interest. ever.

Not saying Anne Hathaway or Marion Cotillard were any better, because they weren't.

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Old 04-20-2014, 05:33 PM   #277
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Not saying Anne Hathaway or Marion Cotillard were any better, because they weren't.
Yes, they were. Better than Kim Basinger, Nicole Kidman, and Elle McPherson, too.

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Old 04-20-2014, 05:43 PM   #278
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

Better in what way?

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Old 04-20-2014, 05:50 PM   #279
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

They were not generic damsels in distress (Vicki), or shallow sex pieces (Chase throwing herself at Batman on the roof of Police HQ), or just bland forgettable non entities like Julie Madison.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:04 PM   #280
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

Is that really less shallow than the standard good girl/bad girl femme fatale that's already been in countless movies from the 1930s at least? Tropes are good, so long as they done well.

Btw, if Chase didn't reject Batman in a later scene, I would agree with her as being nothing more than a shallow sex piece, but at least she had an arc in that respect.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:14 PM   #281
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

Nearly every trope in a superhero movie has been done in countless movies. It's what you do with them that separates them.

Yeah Chase rejects Batman later, after she answers the door to him wearing nothing but a bed sheet and snogs the face off him.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:26 PM   #282
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

I think Rachel was very much a generic "damsel in distress" in both movies.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:31 PM   #283
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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I think Rachel was very much a generic "damsel in distress" in both movies.
Nah Rachel had more to do than be saved by Bats in her movies. She tackled corruption, she brought the fear cure to Gordon, she even stood up to the big boys like Crane and Joker.

In B'89 Vicki was forgotten about by Bruce after he shagged her. He only went back to see her because Alfred kept playing Cupid trying to pair them up. Heh Joker was more interested in her than Bruce.

When I think of Vicki in B'89 all I hear is that annoying scream of hers. Yeeesh. You could make a drinking game out of it every time she squeals.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:32 PM   #284
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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I think Rachel was very much a generic "damsel in distress" in both movies.
At least she knew how to use a taser.

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:06 PM   #285
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Nah Rachel had more to do than be saved by Bats in her movies. She tackled corruption, she brought the fear cure to Gordon, she even stood up to the big boys like Crane and Joker.

In B'89 Vicki was forgotten about by Bruce after he shagged her. He only went back to see her because Alfred kept playing Cupid trying to pair them up. Heh Joker was more interested in her than Bruce.

When I think of Vicki in B'89 all I hear is that annoying scream of hers. Yeeesh. You could make a drinking game out of it every time she squeals.
Yes to all of this.

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:10 PM   #286
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Nah Rachel had more to do than be saved by Bats in her movies. She tackled corruption, she brought the fear cure to Gordon, she even stood up to the big boys like Crane and Joker.

In B'89 Vicki was forgotten about by Bruce after he shagged her. He only went back to see her because Alfred kept playing Cupid trying to pair them up. Heh Joker was more interested in her than Bruce.

When I think of Vicki in B'89 all I hear is that annoying scream of hers. Yeeesh. You could make a drinking game out of it every time she squeals.
I'm not saying Vivki wasn't, I'm just saying Rachel was too. He had to rescue her twice in BB, and also tried to save her twice in TDK. She's just as much a damsel in distress.

I mean, I can say the same stuff about Vicki. She helped run stories on Batman, she brought the Joker cure to the media, she stood up to The Joker in the bell tower to help Batman, etc. It doesn't change the fact that she was also a damsel in distress like Rachel was.

Edit: She was actually saved 3 times in BB.

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:23 PM   #287
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

Rachel's 4 times needing to be saved versus Vicki's 3 times needing to be saved (the museum, her apartment, the bell tower).

I think we now know who is the 'damsel in distress' here.

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Old 04-20-2014, 09:43 PM   #288
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

Rachel was in two movies. Vicki was in one. Vicki's was worse. Rachel was not a damsel in distress type character. Her character was an honest D.A. in a corrupt city. It felt natural when she was a target. Unlike Vicki who got in dutch because Joker randomly took a fancy to her.

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Old 04-28-2014, 12:37 AM   #289
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Rachel was in two movies. Vicki was in one. Vicki's was worse. Rachel was not a damsel in distress type character. Her character was an honest D.A. in a corrupt city. It felt natural when she was a target. Unlike Vicki who got in dutch because Joker randomly took a fancy to her.
Vicki was a photojournalist investigating Batman, that's part of the reason why Joker took an interest in her - "What do you know about this Batman?"

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Old 04-28-2014, 07:10 AM   #290
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Vicki was a photojournalist investigating Batman, that's part of the reason why Joker took an interest in her - "What do you know about this Batman?"
No, Joker just saw her photo and said "Stop the press, who is that? That girl has style. A lovely beast like that running around could put steam in a man's stride".

Bob: "She's dating some guy named Wayne"

Joker: "She's about to trade up"

Nothing to do with Batman. It was random and stupid. Just a weak excuse to make Vicki the damsel in distress and relevant to the plot.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:34 AM   #291
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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No, Joker just saw her photo and said "Stop the press, who is that? That girl has style. A lovely beast like that running around could put steam in a man's stride".

Bob: "She's dating some guy named Wayne"

Joker: "She's about to trade up"

Nothing to do with Batman. It was random and stupid. Just a weak excuse to make Vicki the damsel in distress and relevant to the plot.
Earlier in the film Joker says to Bob:

"Bob, I want you to go down to the globe. Follow that reporter Knox. Take your camera. See what he knows about this Batman."

Bob does so, photographs Knox and Vicki Vale, takes it back to Joker (because they might know something about Batman). Joker sees her, becomes smitten, but the reason Bob took the photo is because of the task Joker gave him to do. Hence it wasn't "random and stupid".

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:37 AM   #292
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Earlier in the film Joker says to Bob:

"Bob, I want you to go down to the globe. Follow that reporter Knox. Take your camera. See what he knows about this Batman."

Bob does so, photographs Knox and Vicki Vale, takes it back to Joker (because they might know something about Batman). Joker sees her, becomes smitten, but the reason Bob took the photo is because of the task Joker gave him to do. Hence it wasn't "random and stupid".
I'm not talking about Bob getting a photo of Vicki being random and stupid, Joker getting a boner and love sick obsession with Vicki after he saw her photo was.

It was pointless and unnecessary. Just an excuse to make Vicki relevant to the plot and place her in the thick of the action as a damsel in distress that Bruce had to save three times.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:41 AM   #293
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

I wish the character never existed. The whole love triangle/Wayne wanting to retire angle that was brought about by this character is the weakest part of the trilogy by far.

Hathaway's Catwoman was decent. Cotillard's Talia was pointless and tacked on to bring it "full circle" (they could have done that in a more interesting way by making Bruce take on the Ra's role by faking his death but emerging in the Bat Cave to train Blake at the end). She also had one of the most laughable death scenes in any CBM ever.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:41 AM   #294
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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I'm not talking about Bob getting a photo of Vicki being random and stupid, Joker getting a boner and love sick obsession with Vicki after he saw her photo was.

It was pointless and unnecessary. Just an excuse to make Vicki relevant to the plot and place her in the thick of the action as a damsel in distress that Bruce had to save three times.
Well if you were a red-blooded male, and had the choice of going after either Knox or Vicki, who would you choose? Of course she was a damsel in distress, but she was still relevant to the plot.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:44 AM   #295
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Well if you were a red-blooded male, and had the choice of going after either Knox or Vicki, who would you choose?
He didn't go after Vicki for that reason. If what he wanted was info about Batman then why didn't he just go straight to the source and just grab Knox and force him to talk?

He asked Vicki once, just once very briefly what she knew about Batman. That's it. His pursuit of her had nothing to do with Batman. He was after her because he fancied her. Hence why he took her with him up the church tower after he thought Batman was dead in the Batwing crash. It's why he played romantic music when ever he went after her. Why he had a chat with her by candlelight etc. It was all romantic pursuit.

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Of course she was a damsel in distress, but she was still relevant to the plot.
Through shoddy weak writing.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:45 AM   #296
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

Vicki is the one who discovered the mystery of Bruce Wayne. As she learnt the mystery, we did. I liked how they approached it.

And the scene of a uncharacteristically bumbling Bruce Wayne trying to explain his secret to Vicki in her apartment made the whole thing worth it alone.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:47 AM   #297
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Vicki is the one who discovered the mystery of Bruce Wayne. As she learnt the mystery, we did. I liked how they approached it.
Big deal. Vicki found a newspaper article thanks to help from Knox. We didn't get the full pic until we saw Brucie's flashback.

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And the scene of a uncharacteristically bumbling Bruce Wayne trying to explain his secret to Vicki in her apartment made the whole thing worth it alone.
Heh that was cheesy and cringey. He acted like Raimi's Peter Parker trying to get his words out to MJ.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:48 AM   #298
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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He didn't go after Vicki for that reason. If what he wanted was info about Batman then why didn't he just go straight to the source and just grab Knox and force him to talk?
Because Knox was a total douche ("Who is that loss?" "Bad tie.").

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He asked Vicki once, just once very briefly what she knew about Batman. That's it. His pursuit of her had nothing to do with Batman. He was after her because he fancied her. Hence why he took her with him up the church tower after he thought Batman was dead in the Batwing crash.
No, remember he was pissed that Batman crashed his party ("You ran off with that sideshow freak."), that's why he visited her at her apartment.

As for the church, he wasn't going after Vicki, he just managed to find her there and decided to take her hostage to cover his escape.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:52 AM   #299
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Big deal. Vicki found a newspaper article thanks to help from Knox. We didn't get the full pic until we saw Brucie's flashback.
You obviously missed the part where she was following him into crime alley and taking pictures of him laying roses there with THAT look on his face.

"What do you think something like that would do to a kid"


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Heh that was cheesy and cringey. He acted like Raimi's Peter Parker trying to get his words out to MJ.
Not really. It was fantastic acting by Keaton and showed a real human side to Bruce Wayne.

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Old 04-28-2014, 08:53 AM   #300
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Default Re: Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

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Because Knox was a total douche ("Who is that loss?" "Bad tie.").
Who cares if he was a douche? He was the one spearheading all the Batman stories in Gotham. He was famous for it. Vicki was a Johnny come lately arrival in Gotham.

Knox was the one who was the more logical one to pursue if indeed he wanted Batman info.

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No, remember he was pissed that Batman crashed his party ("You ran off with that sideshow freak."), that's why he visited her at her apartment.
No, he was annoyed because their "date" was cut short. That's why he was playing romantic music again on the stereo and even brought her a gift of roses.

It was all romantic pursuit. You're a fan of this movie, you should know all this obvious stuff.

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As for the church, he wasn't going after Vicki, he just managed to find her there and decided to take her hostage to cover his escape.
That is not what happened at all. He didn't need a hostage to cover anything. Hr thought Batman was dead. It wasn't until they were half way up the tower and he heard Batman knock over the pews did he know he was still alive.

He took Vicki with him because he fancied her.

"I'm about to get a new girl, Bobby"

Again all spelled out in the movie. Plain as day.

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