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Old 04-13-2011, 05:17 PM   #76
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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Well, to me, the scenes with Lex, Otis and Ms Teschmacher are all terrible, especially the ones that they go to change the programming of the missiles. I cannot take that Army seriously or all the characters in it. Its those moments after the Superman flight with Lois. The movie begins to be serious again by the time Clark jumps out of the window and goes to Luthor's lair, but theres about 20 mins in there that is just pure camp, cheesiness or plain stupid. It would be a perfect movie with a more modern representation of Luthor. I just hate that portrayal of Lex and all his land schemes. It wasnt so bad in STM but in SII and SR it just became really STUPID.


Love seeing Hackman get pissed off at Otis and always clown him though.

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Old 04-13-2011, 05:43 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

You can't watch a movie like that from a modernist point of view; watch it as a time capsule.

If you think about it, most older movies (pre-60) aren't as sophisticated in character development (the hero or villain might be two-dimensional; the dialog might come off as unnatural, romances are rushed, etc) or writing, but you can't see older movies in that light. And it doesn't mean they're bad either. It was just the part of the developmental procress of cinema.

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Old 04-13-2011, 05:53 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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You can't watch a movie like that from a modernist point of view; watch it as a time capsule.

If you think about it, most older movies (pre-60) aren't as sophisticated in character development (the hero or villain might be two-dimensional; the dialog might come off as unnatural, romances are rushed, etc) or writing, but you can't see older movies in that light. And it doesn't mean they're bad either. It was just the part of the developmental procress of cinema.
I disagree. Plenty of classics still hold up just fine from a modern point of view. Casablanca for example. The dialogue in that, even from a cynical contemporary point of view, is as sharp as anything Aaron Sorkin could come up with now. And I think Sorkin would agree. Jaws, even though it's a just a silly shark attack or "monster" movie, is still sophisticated as ever as a piece of filmmaking, despite the shark looking fake (as Superman's effects). The Jaws sequels, on the other hand, were cheesy then, as they're cheesy now. It's patronizing to just issue them all a handicap or grading curve just because they're old. The only thing that should be issued a handicap is their effects/technology, since they couldn't help that, not their storytelling.

Donner's film, imo, just doesn't hold up. The first half does, but then it becomes a cheesefest. For any time.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:00 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I do think that it's retarded if people jumped off the Donner Superman movie bandwagon just because they didn't like SR and ditto for the people who dislike the older Batman movies after Nolan came around. I do believe that there are people who did that and those people should be poo-pooed but I'm not one of those people.

I'm sure I did watch the Superman movies as a child and I didn't care for them and I forgot them so I rewatched em as an adult and I must say I care even less for it now. Same with the early Batman movies. I'm not one of those bandwagon jumper offers because I was never in love with those films. Not saying that anybody was accusing me but I thought I'd once again say that.

I don't want a full Donner Superman film because I don't care for those films. If they take some things from the films, fine but if it's another silly love fest like Superman Returns then I'm not going to care for this new movie.

That being said, I'm optimistic that it's not going to be another retread and that it will succeed or fail based on it's own merits and thats all I ever ask for when it comes to cinema.

I thought over the Zod thing and I've come to this conclusion. This is WB's last shot at Superman, they had to use a popular villain and truth be told, Superman's other villains aren't very popular. Zod is a name so it's smart, business wise, to use him. Would I have liked another villain? sure but they don't have that luxury now. They have to make a big hit so bringing in a popular villain is the natural way to try and get people to the theaters to see the movie. One of my sisters sqeeled with delight when she heard that Zod was going to be the villain, that is when my brain started to see the issue differently. I think normal people will love seeing Zod again because he was a fairly memorable villian and thats what WB needs to do, they need normal folks to see this film. Nerds don't make big boxoffice hits.

My personal opinion on the Zod issue has also shifted somewhat. I'm still not super excited about it (I'm a whinny nerd after all) but Zod is a fun villain and they could make a really interesting story surrounding him considering he and Kal El are from the same doomed planet. There are tons of interesting and different things that can be done with Zod being a villain in this new movie. Especially now that we know it's somewhat of an origin story.

Everybody who loves or hate me know that I don't often change my mind, even this much, so you know I must have thought hard about it.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:02 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I hope that WB works out a deal with the family; I just want Synder to expand on his Superman in future installments.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:03 PM   #81
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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I disagree. Plenty of classics still hold up just fine from a modern point of view. Casablanca for example. The dialogue in that, even from a cynical contemporary point of view, is as sharp as anything Aaron Sorkin could come up with now. And I think Sorkin would agree. Jaws, even though it's a just a silly shark attack or "monster" movie, is still sophisticated as ever as a piece of filmmaking, despite the shark looking fake (as Superman's effects). The Jaws sequels, on the other hand, were cheesy then, as they're cheesy now. It's patronizing to just issue them all a handicap or grading curve just because they're old. The only thing that should be issued a handicap is their effects/technology, since they couldn't help that, not their storytelling.

Donner's film, imo, just doesn't hold up. The first half does, but then it becomes a cheesefest. For any time.
True....But because I'm a jerk, I still win this bout!

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:06 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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True....But because I'm a jerk, I still win this bout!
Hard to argue with that!

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:15 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

After the movie gets to the City, it bombs with me. I like silliness and cheese in my Superhero movies when it's done right but I just flat out hated it in Superman: The Movie.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:16 PM   #84
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

Well, I think Lex and Otis were so cartoony, it took out the 'awe' of seing a flying man in a big city.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:17 PM   #85
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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i disagree. Plenty of classics still hold up just fine from a modern point of view. casablanca for example. The dialogue in that, even from a cynical contemporary point of view, is as sharp as anything aaron sorkin could come up with now. And i think sorkin would agree. jaws, even though it's a just a silly shark attack or "monster" movie, is still sophisticated as ever as a piece of filmmaking, despite the shark looking fake (as superman's effects). The jaws sequels, on the other hand, were cheesy then, as they're cheesy now. It's patronizing to just issue them all a handicap or grading curve just because they're old. The only thing that should be issued a handicap is their effects/technology, since they couldn't help that, not their storytelling.

Donner's film, imo, just doesn't hold up. The first half does, but then it becomes a cheesefest. For any time.
qft!

I wouldnt go and say that just the first half doesnt hold-up because there are MANY great sequences throughout the whole movie but, imo, what doesnt hold up is Lex Luthor and his goons and every scene he is involved and making fun of people. Theres sometimes when he is serious like when he is with Superman but the rest is just stupid. It worked for the time but it doesnt anymore, imo.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:18 PM   #86
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I wish Hackman's Lex was a mad scientist type instead of a Hanna Barbara 'criminal genius'.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:20 PM   #87
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

A Hanna Barbara reference? Why sir, I think I love you.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:20 PM   #88
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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Well, I think Lex and Otis were so cartoony, it took out the 'awe' of seing a flying man in a big city.
Exactely.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:23 PM   #89
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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After the movie gets to the City, it bombs with me. I like silliness and cheese in my Superhero movies when it's done right but I just flat out hated it in Superman: The Movie.
Well, there are lot of great sequences in the city. The mugger, Superman's first appearence, the savings, etc. The problem I have is with Luthor, Otis and Ms Teschmacher.

Hate me what you want but I absolutely love the "Can you read my mind sequence". Its unrealistic but its romantic and done so well. I love the theme too so im biased.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:25 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I loved the first two Reeve Superman movies.....but I don't want references to them in the new one. I don't really mind them having Zod in it either, as long as they do something different than the previous incarnations. Hiring Shannon to play the part is a good start.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:27 PM   #91
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I loved the first two Reeve Superman movies.....but I don't want references to them in the new one. I don't really mind them having Zod in it either, as long as they do something different than the previous incarnations. Hiring Shannon to play the part is a good start.
Ditto!

Time to move on.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:55 PM   #92
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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Well, there are lot of great sequences in the city. The mugger, Superman's first appearence, the savings, etc. The problem I have is with Luthor, Otis and Ms Teschmacher.

Hate me what you want but I absolutely love the "Can you read my mind sequence". Its unrealistic but its romantic and done so well. I love the theme too so im biased.
There was some good stuff in the City, I have to admit.

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Old 04-13-2011, 07:33 PM   #93
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I want a shirt rip that equals or tops the one in S:TM, with none of the crap like we saw in SR.
That scene still chaps me a$$.

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Old 04-13-2011, 07:37 PM   #94
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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I want a shirt rip that equals or tops the one in S:TM, with none of the crap like we saw in SR.
That scene still chaps me a$$.
agreed...and to think that Singer originally wanted him to rip his shirt open only to realize he left his Supersuit at the Daily Planet. ugh...

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Old 04-13-2011, 07:44 PM   #95
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agreed...and to think that Singer originally wanted him to rip his shirt open only to realize he left his Supersuit at the Daily Planet. ugh...
I still don't get why he couldnt have re-shot that scene and did it right...oh well.

I almost wish for some of snyder's famous slo-mo mojo on the first shirt rip in MOS. Drag that sucka out I say while the score is blairing slow and hard in the background.

Clark slowly removes his glasses. He reaches for his shirt with both hands. A button pops here, a button zooms there, the shirt rips open, then bam, there's the \S/ in all its glory. Meanwhile, the score picks up tempo and hammers the point home.

Why? we've waited 30 years for it and I think we deserve it.

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Old 04-13-2011, 07:52 PM   #96
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

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You can't watch a movie like that from a modernist point of view; watch it as a time capsule.
I agree with this. This is how I watch it. For what it is, the humor is even funny and clever. But I'm looking at it from that time period.

Although I see what you mean in your other statement. Films from the 50's, 60's, even 70's aren't made like today. That isn't a knock against films of today, but could I make a film with a 1950's, 60's, or 70's sensibility without making it feel like a homage or parody?

Guys, if this is the last Superman film in a long time, if it's good and Zod is done well and right, at least we got one hell of a film we've been wanting to see and a villain done very well. And kick ass action.

God, I just hope this succeeds.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:19 PM   #97
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I watched it with a 70's point of view in mind and I still didn't like it.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:43 PM   #98
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

It's just not your cup of tea then. Which is fine.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:18 PM   #99
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I grew up watching older movies. Films from the 30's to 70's were all there was. I'm used to them and like them. I've noticed from my time on the Hype discussing movies, that many of the people today won't even try to watch movies a few decades old. So I give I See Spidey props for at least watching it. But that's the strange thing I have noticed with many of the posters here. When I was a kid, the age of the movie didn't matter at all. I heard there was a movie I hadn't seen, I tried to watch it. Many on here, you say it's old and they run away screaming.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:25 PM   #100
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Default Re: The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

I love older films, especially the black and white ones. The Earl Flynn films are my favorites.

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