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Old 04-13-2011, 06:49 PM   #1
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Default Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Yes, Snyder said he would be respectful of canon and Cavill stated his Supes would be recognizable as Superman.

But....what do these chaps really mean by their use of the word canon?

If you ask a fanboy what Superman canon is, you get varied responses that include things such as Superman's traditional costume and the crystal Fortress.

I think what Snyder meant by "canon" may be more in the line of what the general movie goer (read= non-fanboy!) understands as canon.

So I think the plot from Man of Steel will significantly diverge from anything we've seen before. It may not be Abram's script, but it would be as different to established comic canon as Abrams script is.

Think about it, if the plot were based on established Superman canon, it would not need to be so secretly guarded; they are introducing something completely new here IMO.

Perhaps krypton did not blow up and Superman wears a black costume with a red cape.....maybe he only has his full powers during the day (when the sun light can reach him)....or maybe he has a space ship....maybe he reads minds....

What do you think will be held as 'sacred' by Snyder and Co.?

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Snyder's not the only one that has said that this rendition will be true to the source material. Nolan and Cavill have both expressed that same thought. on top of that, i don't think Snyder is going to be changing much of the script. it's pretty clear to me that he's being kept on a moderately tight leash considering his comments (most realistic movie he's ever made) and casting choices (he normally casts lower tier actors in his movies), so i'm not even sure he has much power when it comes to changes in the script.

however, Goyer is as much, maybe even more, of a comic geek that the rest of us here and he gave us the initial script for Batman Begins. on top of that, everyone knows that they can't mess this film up or they won't be able to make another one for a looong time....so i don't think they're gonna be taking a chance by coming up with anything un-Superman.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

One thing is for sure. If it were revealed that superman would wear a black suit with red cape, or only have powers during the day or something equally as bad, then WB wouldnt be able to count on fanboys/girls giving good wom about it beforehand lol.
The meltdown would be historic.

That said, I think snyder and company sticks with what works. There is no need in re-inventing the wheel and they know this..

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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Originally Posted by DorkyFresh View Post
Snyder's not the only one that has said that this rendition will be true to the source material. Nolan and Cavill have both expressed that same thought. on top of that, i don't think Snyder is going to be changing much of the script. it's pretty clear to me that he's being kept on a moderately tight leash considering his comments (most realistic movie he's ever made) and casting choices (he normally casts lower tier actors in his movies), so i'm not even sure he has much power when it comes to changes in the script.

however, Goyer is as much, maybe even more, of a comic geek that the rest of us here and he gave us the initial script for Batman Begins. on top of that, everyone knows that they can't mess this film up or they won't be able to make another one for a looong time....so i don't think they're gonna be taking a chance by coming up with anything un-Superman.
Goyer has also given us some serious crap. Let's not be hasty in lavishing him with praise.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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Goyer has also given us some serious crap.
i haven't followed his previous productions, but the only thing he's given us crap about on this one so far is Zod.
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Let's not be hasty in lavishing him with praise.
i didn't realize pointing out that he is being kept on a tight leash and will probably have limited influence over the script is appraisal.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

As said above, I doubt they would take the risk of making huge changes like that. They are probably just being secretive to build hype for the movie.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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That said, I think snyder and company sticks with what works. There is no need in re-inventing the wheel and they know this..
Here is what Diane Lane said after having read the actual script,
"....this is going to be a whole reinvention. A visitation and a reinvention."

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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i haven't followed his previous productions, but the only thing he's given us crap about on this one so far is Zod.

i didn't realize pointing out that he is being kept on a tight leash and will probably have limited influence over the script is appraisal.
He wrote and directed Blade: Trinity and that movie The Unborn (or something like it). Nough said. He is not untalented, but he is far from great. The fact he is the head writer doesn't make me confident, even if he was involved with BB and TDK because those got rewritten by people I know are talented.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/638...tml#id=1661185

Interviewer: Does this feel like a different take on Superman or does this feel true to what you knew about Superman, what we all love and gimme a sense of what is special about all of this.

Cavill: It's true to the source material, and um...but basically there's so little I CAN say about it. It's basically just a reimagining and modernization of an iconic character.

Interviewer: The last few Superman have been cut from the same cloth I feel like (referring to Routh and Reeve) so do you have to go left when they went right?

Cavill: Um...that's tough to say, it's still very early days yet. Superman is Superman after all. There's only so much of a change you can make to that. It's certainly, as I say, it's going to be different but not so different that it's unrecognizable.



http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/638...tml#id=1661185

Interviewer: Are you doing any comic book research or is that necessary?

Cavill: Oh yeah...oh yeah....been doing plenty of comic book research.

Interviewer: Any particular Superman arcs that you're into (probably trying to get a sense of the movie's plot)?

Cavill: (trying to not to answer without giving away anything about the movie) I.....ooo......I'm just picking out as much as I possibly can from the comic book history because obviously it's plastered across as to who this man is and whatever part of your life he's playing, whatever part of his ultimate journey you're playing, um...you just need to either put in the building aspects, the building blocks to how he ends up or those key characteristics which are carried through. And so, it's just picking up a general idea of what he is...um...and then working from there.






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He wrote and directed Blade: Trinity and that movie The Unborn (or something like it). Nough said. He is not untalented, but he is far from great. The fact he is the head writer doesn't make me confident, even if he was involved with BB and TDK because those got rewritten by people I know are talented.
directing is quite different from scripting. i'm not denying that he's not a good director and while i have my reservations about his writing skills (specifically dialogue) this thread is about the faithfulness of the movie...and Goyer was able to turn in a very faithful rendition of Batman's origins to Nolan. there's no reason to think that Nolan would be okay with Goyer turning in a draft of a Superman script that strays from the Superman mythos.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about straying to far from the core of the charactors. Just because some are using the word "reimagining" doesn't mean we're getting Burton's Superman or somrthing.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkyFresh View Post
http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/638...tml#id=1661185

Interviewer: Does this feel like a different take on Superman or does this feel true to what you knew about Superman, what we all love and gimme a sense of what is special about all of this.

Cavill: It's true to the source material, and um...but basically there's so little I CAN say about it. It's basically just a reimagining and modernization of an iconic character.

Interviewer: The last few Superman have been cut from the same cloth I feel like (referring to Routh and Reeve) so do you have to go left when they went right?

Cavill: Um...that's tough to say, it's still very early days yet. Superman is Superman after all. There's only so much of a change you can make to that. It's certainly, as I say, it's going to be different but not so different that it's unrecognizable.



http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/638...tml#id=1661185

Interviewer: Are you doing any comic book research or is that necessary?

Cavill: Oh yeah...oh yeah....been doing plenty of comic book research.

Interviewer: Any particular Superman arcs that you're into (probably trying to get a sense of the movie's plot)?

Cavill: (trying to not to answer without giving away anything about the movie) I.....ooo......I'm just picking out as much as I possibly can from the comic book history because obviously it's plastered across as to who this man is and whatever part of your life he's playing, whatever part of his ultimate journey you're playing, um...you just need to either put in the building aspects, the building blocks to how he ends up or those key characteristics which are carried through. And so, it's just picking up a general idea of what he is...um...and then working from there.







directing is quite different from scripting. i'm not denying that he's not a good director and while i have my reservations about his writing skills (specifically dialogue) this thread is about the faithfulness of the movie...and Goyer was able to turn in a very faithful rendition of Batman's origins to Nolan. there's no reason to think that Nolan would be okay with Goyer turning in a draft of a Superman script that strays from the Superman mythos.
I'm not worried about accuracy either. I'm sure it will be accurate. Quality is more my worry.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

ah...well if it's quality we're discussing then we might wanna start our own thread, hehe. just to quickly touch upon it though, yes i'm a bit worried about the quality that Goyer and Snyder put into the dialogue and character interactions and such.....but i'm also hopeful (maybe to a fault) that Nolan will have a big influence on these matters.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

I'm hoping he does, but I would be more comforted if Johnathan Nolan touched the script up.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

A certain "insider" named gilberg said Chris and Jonah worked on the script. How is his track record?

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Old 04-14-2011, 07:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

"Canon" to me is more about the bare bone facts of Superman, and which of the iterations over 73 years will they implement...i.e..

....were Kryptonians frequent visitors to Earth?
....does Jor-El have knowledge of Kal-el's destiny, and is he a major player in Clark's upbringing?
....Does Kal-el even have a "destiny"?
....where does the suit come from?
....Superman's power limits?
....Does lois know his secret, are they in a relationship?
....How does Kryptonite work? How much of it is available?
....Is/was there a Superboy?

......those kinds of things.

The "characters" evolve naturally from the bones of the canon chosen.

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Old 04-14-2011, 09:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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ah...well if it's quality we're discussing then we might wanna start our own thread, hehe. just to quickly touch upon it though, yes i'm a bit worried about the quality that Goyer and Snyder put into the dialogue and character interactions and such.....but i'm also hopeful (maybe to a fault) that Nolan will have a big influence on these matters.
I think partly, what made Superman: The Movie really good was the dialogue and interaction between the characters in the movie, especially Clark/Superman and Lois.

Superman Returns had almost non-existing dialogue and interaction between Clark and Lois, and this is also my worry with Man of Steel. I just hope the Nolan brothers helped with the script in this particular aspect.

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Old 04-14-2011, 12:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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Here is what Diane Lane said after having read the actual script,
"....this is going to be a whole reinvention. A visitation and a reinvention."
She means it's not going to be based on the Donner Films like Superman Returns was. It's going to be a reboot.

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Old 04-14-2011, 02:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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She means it's not going to be based on the Donner Films like Superman Returns was. It's going to be a reboot.
Exactly

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Old 04-14-2011, 04:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

All the familiar characteristics will be there, with a few changes fitting the director's vision, like most of the other comic book adaptations.

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Old 04-14-2011, 04:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

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Originally Posted by afan View Post
"Canon" to me is more about the bare bone facts of Superman, and which of the iterations over 73 years will they implement...i.e..

....were Kryptonians frequent visitors to Earth?
....does Jor-El have knowledge of Kal-El's destiny, and is he a major player in Clark's upbringing?
....Does Kal-El even have a "destiny"?
....where does the suit come from?
....Superman's power limits?
....Does Lois know his secret, are they in a relationship?
....How does Kryptonite work? How much of it is available?
....Is/was there a Superboy?

......those kinds of things.

The "characters" evolve naturally from the bones of the canon chosen.
My take:
1) No, I think "Last Days of Krypton" solved that problem perfectly. Other aliens(presumably the Guardians of the Universe) went to Earth, took notes and eventually one of them came to Krypton, where Jor-El discovered Earth, a planet near Mars(who's last survivor had sent out a distress signal that reachd Krypton after decades) and, seeing the physical resemblance to Kryptonians, sent him there.

2) No, Jor-El is dead, he only sent Kal-El to Earth to save him, not make him some sort of Christ-like savior.

3) What destiny? "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves"
- Kyle Reese

4) The suit is Kryptonian, made by Lara for Kal-El to wear when he is older, and colored red and blue(Clark's favorite colors) and outfitted with the Kryptonian symbol for hope(a surprising coincidence resulting in it being a perfect cross between the Kent family crest[the snake], the El family crest[the Superman Red/Blue logo] and the Smallville high logo[stylized \S/]) by the Kents, along with the cape, boots and belt, made from materials from the ship.

5) Unlimited, but held back to the point that repeated nuclear bombs could give him cancer and that one punch doesn't destroy the universe. I'd like it if he knows he is much more powerful, but not that much, and holds back on purpose.

6) Lois flirts with Superman to get a story, but actually has a crush on Clark and no, she doesn't know his identity.

7) Kryptonite is the radioactive remains of Krypton, created when the elements Krypton and Plutonium in the planet's core were fused into a new element by the explosion. It works the same way as normal radiation, but much more intense. Superman should also be mildly affected by other radioactive materials like uranium. Only Lex Luthor, the government and S.T.A.R. Labs( and Metallo in a possible sequel) have any.

8) Kal-El/Clark Kent was never Superboy, however, he did still save people, just was never seen. Kon-El, who could appear in a Doomsday movie, is a clone of Superman and Luthor.

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Old 04-14-2011, 04:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

IMO "bare bones canon" is not what you (fanboy) knows about Superman, but what your wife,girlfriend,boyfriend, etc., know when they are asked.

Ask an uninterested friend what they know about Superman and that persons answer may be closer to the "canon" that Snyder and Co. are respecting than we have in mind.


Remember Snyder said something to the effect that Superman was on life support, I don't think doing a version that is very reflective of the comic book is what the WB suit mad dogs have in store.

Here is the type of canon I think they may use,

Superman came from krypton, he was found and raised by human parents in Smallville. He has great strength, can run fast, flies, and shoots red lasers from his eyes. He has Clark Kent as a secret identity and wears glasses. Lex Luthor is his enemy. He works at the Daily Planet and his girlfriend is Lois Lane. He has a red 'S' on his chest and wears a blue costume with a big red cape. Kryptonite can hurt him.

That's it, all other specifics are up in the air for the writers to play with.
So everything is possible!

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Old 04-14-2011, 05:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Well, you forgot to mention that he is bullet-proof(everyone knows that) and that his real name is Kal-El. He also lives in Metropolis.

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Old 04-15-2011, 07:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Someone on IMDB posted a translation of a Polish Newsweek Snyder interview. It is extremely disturbing to me, especially this bit:

I: Sound promising, but what about story? Do you want "Superman" in an old Richard Donner convention, the comedic Richard Lester version or maybe in this kiddish version, presented by Bryan Singer in "Superman Returns"?

Z: "Superman: Man of Steel" will be a whole new take on that superhero, and it will definitely not resemble Singer's movie, which I find extremely overstylized. My film is gonna be dark and realistic. There even was a moment, when we considered to give up all superpowers. But seriously, it's gonna be a solid, real action movie. Superman will be a real guy, evil will be tangible and Clark Kent will be working in an actual editorial office. These days nobody wants to see stories about plastic superheroes. Besides, why make them when somebody already did a long time ago. Comic book movies have entered a new era: they are unpredictable, epic and often realistic. My "Superman" will fit into these categories.

Realistic is fine, but dark? That's Batman not Superman. They considered giving up all his powers? I'm worried what other outlandish 'considerations' made it through. I also don't see how Singer's Superman was overstylized. Snyder's films are overstylized. Although he may not be talking about the look of the film. Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere already.

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Old 04-15-2011, 07:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

After "Giving up all superpowers" he said "But seriously"

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Old 04-15-2011, 07:59 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ok....what is REALLY canon in the eyes of Zack Snyder?

Do you have a link to the interview?

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