Theory: A3 will not be an Avengers movie but a crossover with GotG and Inhumans

[Mr. Dent]

That's what I think Feige and Marvel are planning for 2018. I think they're going bigger than anyone thought with these films and aren't just planning for the third Avengers film to be strictly an Avengers film, but a film that crosses them over with the Guardians of the Galaxy, and possibly other properties that will be in phase 3 like the Inhumans. Avengers 2 is about going deeper into the team, pushing them and teaching them how to actually be a team. After that though, they will be a puzzle piece in a much bigger canvas. There is a reason Marvel is going into a completely different branch of their universe with GotG that doesn't appear to seg into Avengers at all, and that is because it is meant to be a separate arm. This is like the difference between Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America except on an even bigger scale. BUT, the main thing tying these films together is Thanos, and that will be what brings them together as well.

As for "branding", so to speak, instead of being "Avengers 3: The Thanos Imperative", it would be, for example, "Marvel's Annihilation: The Thanos Imperative". This way you're not undermining the Avengers in an Avengers movie, they'd just be a piece of a bigger puzzle, as I said before. It will take more than the Avengers to defeat Thanos, just like it will take more than just the Guardians as well.

So essentially, this will not be a movie of any specific property, it will be a complete Marvel crossover event movie encompassing multiple properties. So the restrictions that they place on themselves in standalone films, like not allowing characters from other franchises to make random cameos and the like, will be out the window. By that I mean, we could see characters from the TV shows making quick appearances or something and it wouldn't feel at all out of place, as the structure behind the movie in the first place is that it's a pure Marvel crossover event film. This film would basically be the culmination of the 10 years of set-up they started with the first Iron Man movie, and they would pay homage to everything they've done. That includes maybe just showing quick glimpses of what the TV characters are doing when some seismic event happens. Cameo stuff.

But how do you fit so many characters into one movie? Well, I think it would be awesome if they were to try their hand at the Deathly Hallows split model, with the first part of the movie being released in 2018 and the second part in 2019. But, that's thinking way too far ahead on top of thinking too far ahead. My point is, it's possible for them to do this type of mega crossover without it imploding on itself.

This is the "merging of the brands" I think Vin Diesel was talking about that is "way, way off".

[Shikamaru]

I've had the exact same theory for a while too.

[psylockolussus]

What a wild theory you have there, Mr. Dent!

[Green Goblin]

I would not call it A3 though.

To be honest a Inhumans/Avengers/GOTG crossover sounds lame IMO.

That's just crossing over for the sake of it.

[Mr. Dent]

If you read the post, i said they wouldn't call it A3.

And it's really not crossing over for the sake of it, you need that many characters/power players to defeat Thanos. And since Thanos is going to be a tying force between all those movies, it makes sense that you would want all of them to get closure with their dealings with him.

Actually, forget that, you might as well call Avengers crossing over for the sake of it too then. It's not like they NEEDED to and I'm sure a lot of people thought that Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Captain America crossing over sounded lame as well...before, you know, they did it.

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

What a wild theory you have there, Mr. Dent!

Reported for spam.

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

If you read the post, i said they wouldn't call it A3.

And it's really not crossing over for the sake of it, you need that many characters/power players to defeat Thanos. And since Thanos is going to be a tying force between all those movies, it makes sense that you would want all of them to get closure with their dealings with him.

Actually, forget that, you might as well call Avengers crossing over for the sake of it too then. It's not like they NEEDED to and I'm sure a lot of people thought that Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Captain America crossing over sounded lame as well...before, you know, they did it.


Reported for spam.

The Avengers I always viewed as a franchise with Iron Man, Thor etc. being sub franchises. I personally would not like to see cosmic marvel crossover with earth marvel.

How many characters would be in a film like that? One of the (only) complaints of the first Avengers is that they didn't balance the characters well enough. Jowl are you going to do it for 15+ characters?

[Doc Ock]

I could see the merging of the brands mentioned by Vin consisting of a epic crossover between GOTG, Avengers, and Inhumans. In fact it sounds like exactly like something Marvel would do! Although I could see Marvel still labeling it Avengers:The Thanos Imperative but I have this cool image of the A on Annihilation being the Avengers logo.

With all the cosmic activity Marvel seems to be building both on screen and in the comics, a merging of the brands being a crossover between these three teams start seeming like a no-brainier. (As much as I wanted to believe the merging was some involvement from Spider-Man) Just thinking about it is exciting, adding Black Panther and Doctor Strange in the mix would add to that. Not exactly part of all that Cosmic stuff but come on Marvel...please! I could see the TV characters on screen too, I like to look at Star Trek as an example of TV to film appearances.

A two-parter would be great, with such a huge crossover they would be so many characters to cover. In fact what about one part being Avengers:The Thanos Imperative and the other part being Annihilation:The Thanos Imperative?

[lozzy.94]

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

I would not call it A3 though.

To be honest a Inhumans/Avengers/GOTG crossover sounds lame IMO.

That's just crossing over for the sake of it.

And what's wrong with that?

[cherokeesam]

There's an inherent problem in doing crossovers in a movie as opposed to the comics. The medium simply isn't geared for that.

As an example, compare Crisis On Infinite Earths with The New 52. Crisis is a one-shot, one-book epic that spans the entirety of the DC multiverse. Yeah, it's epic and all, but *all* of the characters are dwarfed by the scope of the story. In the end, the most important focal characters are the Anti-Monitor, Harbinger and Alexander Luthor, characters that nobody gives a **** about. They're just ubers for uber's sake, created as plot devices to justify a company-wide retcon.

On the other hand, The New 52 spans *all* the DC titles, and allows the reader to pick and choose which characters he wants to focus on and see how the retcon affects his favorite heroes and villains.

Trying to do a GOTG/Inhumans/Avengers crossover movie would wind up being like Crisis ---- a giant epic for epic's sake, where *none* of the characters get enough face time for audiences to care about or get involved with them, where the most important characters wind up being the focal villain(s), and where story and character are utterly lost under the spectacle. This is the kind of approach that has led to the spectacular failures of recent months, including John Carter, Green Lantern, and Lone Ranger.

[Dr. Evil]

The team-up will occur in Avengers 3 and not before that, after an Avengers team of Cap, Thor, Stark, BW, Hawkeye, Banner, Wanda and Pietro realize that Thanos is a much greater threat than Loki and Ultron put together. They're going to need help, and Rhodey, Bucky, Ant Man and Falcon are not going to be enough. It's going to have to take this lineup to take down Thanos and his army, whoever that may be:

Avengers:

- Captain America
- Iron Man
- Thor
- The Incredible Hulk
- Quicksilver
- Scarlet Witch
- Black Widow
- Hawkeye

Allies:

- Ant Man
- Falcon
- War Machine
- Bucky
- Warriors Three
- Sif
- Nick Fury
- Maria Hill
- Doctor Strange (maybe)
- Black Panther (maybe)
- Captain Marvel (maybe)

Guardians of the Galaxy:

- Star Lord
- Gamora
- Drax
- Groot
- Rocket Raccoon
- Yondu (maybe)
- Adam Warlock (maybe)

Inhumans:

- Black Bolt
- Medusa
- Crystal
- Gorgon
- Karnak
- Triton

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

I would not call it A3 though.

To be honest a Inhumans/Avengers/GOTG crossover sounds lame IMO.

That's just crossing over for the sake of it.

I wouldn't call it that. I would call it more of a "Marvel Universe" movie. The GOTG and Inhumans will just happen to be there because they are in the Marvel Universe, but they might not be the only ones. Remember that it took all of Marvel's superheroes to beat Thanos.

[OcStat]

As Cherokeesam said, the issue would be making all the characters work in the movie. In my opinion, Avengers did a great job balancing the characters, and the average movie goer would have had a decent idea of who's who, even if they didn't see the character films before hand. If the Inhumans and GotG movies provide enough characterization to the ensemble, then like Avengers, the fun part would be seeing how they all interact.

I think to work best, splitting the film into two parts would be the way to go. Maybe have part 1 be the Avengers arrogantly thinking they could handle the Thanos threat themselves and facing defeat, and the second movie uniting the teams?

[Chris B]

My biggest concern is that I just don't see how you pull off having that many characters in one movie. It just seems to me that you'd wind up with everyone's role being just an extended cameo.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

The Avengers I always viewed as a franchise with Iron Man, Thor etc. being sub franchises. I personally would not like to see cosmic marvel crossover with earth marvel.

How many characters would be in a film like that? One of the (only) complaints of the first Avengers is that they didn't balance the characters well enough. Jowl are you going to do it for 15+ characters?

You obviously didn't actually read the post. I know it's somewhat long, but please give it a try. It would only take 2 minutes at best.

Originally Posted by Doc Ock

Although I could see Marvel still labeling it Avengers:The Thanos Imperative but I have this cool image of the A on Annihilation being the Avengers logo.

Ha, didn't think of that. That sounds really cool. Now I really hope they do something like this. And wouldn't it be a sort of cool double entendre? Aside from just being a cool title; Annihilation: The Thanos Imperative...get it? It works perfectly.

A two-parter would be great, with such a huge crossover they would be so many characters to cover. In fact what about one part being Avengers:The Thanos Imperative and the other part being Annihilation:The Thanos Imperative?

Reason why I think they wouldn't label this as Avengers is because it wouldn't just be an Avengers movie. If they label it as Avengers you'd probably get complaints about Marvel undercutting the Avengers in their own film. It would be like calling the first Avengers film an Iron Man film or something.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

There's an inherent problem in doing crossovers in a movie as opposed to the comics. The medium simply isn't geared for that.

As an example, compare Crisis On Infinite Earths with The New 52. Crisis is a one-shot, one-book epic that spans the entirety of the DC multiverse. Yeah, it's epic and all, but *all* of the characters are dwarfed by the scope of the story. In the end, the most important focal characters are the Anti-Monitor, Harbinger and Alexander Luthor, characters that nobody gives a **** about. They're just ubers for uber's sake, created as plot devices to justify a company-wide retcon.

On the other hand, The New 52 spans *all* the DC titles, and allows the reader to pick and choose which characters he wants to focus on and see how the retcon affects his favorite heroes and villains.

Trying to do a GOTG/Inhumans/Avengers crossover movie would wind up being like Crisis ---- a giant epic for epic's sake, where *none* of the characters get enough face time for audiences to care about or get involved with them, where the most important characters wind up being the focal villain(s), and where story and character are utterly lost under the spectacle. This is the kind of approach that has led to the spectacular failures of recent months, including John Carter, Green Lantern, and Lone Ranger.

I think you're neglecting the key difference, which is that Marvel would have spent 10+ years building up to this and people would give a **** about the focal characters in this movie. That's a very big, defining difference between this and movies like Green Lantern and John Carter. Yes, not every character would be able to get enough face time, but that's what they're individual movies are for. There will be the characters that the film focuses on, and then there will be those who will be on the periphery. That's what this big cinematic universe allows Marvel the luxury to do. Even the characters that don't get enough focus in this film will have gotten it in their own franchise, and those who haven't seen those movies and don't know the characters won't care, because they know what they were coming into. It will be the same thing as the Avengers. People who didn't see any of the prior movies still went to see the Avengers just because all these things were coming together, and they didn't care that they hadn't seen the past movies because they knew what they were coming in to.

With this movie, they could narrow the focus to a couple core characters from each group and Thanos. It would still be all of them vs Thanos, but a few characters will be more of the focal point and represent their factions. Even then, if they split the movie in two, there would be enough time to afford all the characters time to talk and say their piece. Most of the Inhuman royal family doesn't have to have a big part in this movie, it can just be Black Bolt, Medusa, and Crystal. The Guardians aren't a big group anyway, and one of their members doesn't even say more than three words, so it would be even easier to have them in it. Just have Peter and Rocket be the ones doing most of the talking, while Drax and Gamora's roles don't have to be upped until the confrontation with Thanos. And with the Avengers, Iron Man and Cap can do most of the talking, and there would still be enough room for the others to do their things.

You can basically narrow down the main characters to 8-10 (with the most important ones being Iron Man, Cap, Star Lord, and Black Bolt) and the rest can just be supporting. And, if they split it like I said, they're afforded 4+ hours to develop the story. It really can be done and it wouldn't be a John Carter. This is the luxury afforded to Marvel that would be 10+ years of build up to. You can't ignore that.

Originally Posted by Chris B

My biggest concern is that I just don't see how you pull off having that many characters in one movie. It just seems to me that you'd wind up with everyone's role being just an extended cameo.

It wouldn't be one movie.

[CyclopsWasRight]

Just have an Inhumans/GOTG crossover where the Inhuman usurp the Kree throne with the Guardians aiding Ronan. Simples

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I think you're neglecting the key difference, which is that Marvel would have spent 10+ years building up to this and people would give a **** about the focal characters in this movie. That's a very big, defining difference between this and movies like Green Lantern and John Carter. Yes, not every character would be able to get enough face time, but that's what they're individual movies are for. There will be the characters that the film focuses on, and then there will be those who will be on the periphery. That's what this big cinematic universe allows Marvel the luxury to do. Even the characters that don't get enough focus in this film will have gotten it in their own franchise, and those who haven't seen those movies and don't know the characters won't care, because they know what they were coming into. It will be the same thing as the Avengers. People who didn't see any of the prior movies still went to see the Avengers just because all these things were coming together, and they didn't care that they hadn't seen the past movies because they knew what they were coming in to.

With this movie, they could narrow the focus to a couple core characters from each group and Thanos. It would still be all of them vs Thanos, but a few characters will be more of the focal point and represent their factions. Even then, if they split the movie in two, there would be enough time to afford all the characters time to talk and say their piece. Most of the Inhuman royal family doesn't have to have a big part in this movie, it can just be Black Bolt, Medusa, and Crystal. The Guardians aren't a big group anyway, and one of their members doesn't even say more than three words, so it would be even easier to have them in it. Just have Peter and Rocket be the ones doing most of the talking, while Drax and Gamora's roles don't have to be upped until the confrontation with Thanos. And with the Avengers, Iron Man and Cap can do most of the talking, and there would still be enough room for the others to do their things.

You can basically narrow down the main characters to 8-10 (with the most important ones being Iron Man, Cap, Star Lord, and Black Bolt) and the rest can just be supporting. And, if they split it like I said, they're afforded 4+ hours to develop the story. It really can be done and it wouldn't be a John Carter. This is the luxury afforded to Marvel that would be 10+ years of build up to. You can't ignore that.


It wouldn't be one movie.

If you're spreading the story out over at least a couple of movies, if not more, then yeah, you'd be taking the New 52 approach to a crossover instead of the Crisis approach, and it would certainly work better. Say for instance, a story that overlaps A3, GOTG 2, and an Inhumans 1 or 2 movie.

But at this point, I don't think Marvel is quite ready to start building castles in the air. This whole concept is based on the notion that audiences will fall in love with these cosmic characters (both hero and villain), but we really have no idea how audiences will react to them yet. That's the biggest problem I have with this whole "save Thanos for the big finale" idea that everyone keeps building their assumptions around --- we still don't know if audiences are going to even care about Thanos. Practically all of us *assumed* that audiences would just love seeing Red Skull and Mandarin onscreen, and that they'd become regular fixtures in the MCU the same as Loki; but the reality turned out quite differently.

Let's cross each bridge as we come to it. GOTG first. *If* that one becomes the blockbuster we're all hoping for, *then* we can start looking past that to explore more cosmic options. Otherwise, don't put the cart before the horse (or however the saying goes).

[Mr.M]

Was just about to say cherokee... there is no way Marvel can have this plan penciled in already when we don't have a consensus on GotG. If the audiences like it, then maybe they move in this direction. Right now, it's only fodder for storyboards and potential long term layouts for the 2021 end game plan, or whatever arbitrary end point they forsee. You want to be as flexible as possible with this stuff, so cosmic is only one branch of it. If GotG bombs, phase III will only incorporate cosmic threats that are centered on Earth bound-Avengers. Heck, I don't even know if Thanos will be a shoe-in for the villain. They may hold him off for PIV if cosmic Marvel needs more time to develop. You could see the Masters of Evil or Kang in Phase III.

[Green Goblin]

[QUOTE=Mr. Dent;26888049]You obviously didn't actually read the post. I know it's somewhat long, but please give it a try. It would only take 2 minutes at best.


I'm saying that the Avengers is a crossover event but it's Earth Marvel. A big Marvel crossover is unrealistic for one film and things like civil war were spread out over several issues.

I personally find the idea of Rocket Racoon and Iron Man both lame and forced.

[KangConquers]

The one thing I really like here is the idea of using the Deathly Hollows model...a 2 part film. It'd allow for a more intricate plot, and a bigger budget...You can give a film project a $500 M budget if you're going to make $2.5-3 Billion off of it.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

If you're spreading the story out over at least a couple of movies, if not more, then yeah, you'd be taking the New 52 approach to a crossover instead of the Crisis approach, and it would certainly work better. Say for instance, a story that overlaps A3, GOTG 2, and an Inhumans 1 or 2 movie.

But at this point, I don't think Marvel is quite ready to start building castles in the air. This whole concept is based on the notion that audiences will fall in love with these cosmic characters (both hero and villain), but we really have no idea how audiences will react to them yet. That's the biggest problem I have with this whole "save Thanos for the big finale" idea that everyone keeps building their assumptions around --- we still don't know if audiences are going to even care about Thanos. Practically all of us *assumed* that audiences would just love seeing Red Skull and Mandarin onscreen, and that they'd become regular fixtures in the MCU the same as Loki; but the reality turned out quite differently.

Let's cross each bridge as we come to it. GOTG first. *If* that one becomes the blockbuster we're all hoping for, *then* we can start looking past that to explore more cosmic options. Otherwise, don't put the cart before the horse (or however the saying goes).

Originally Posted by Mr.M

Was just about to say cherokee... there is no way Marvel can have this plan penciled in already when we don't have a consensus on GotG. If the audiences like it, then maybe they move in this direction. Right now, it's only fodder for storyboards and potential long term layouts for the 2021 end game plan, or whatever arbitrary end point they forsee. You want to be as flexible as possible with this stuff, so cosmic is only one branch of it. If GotG bombs, phase III will only incorporate cosmic threats that are centered on Earth bound-Avengers. Heck, I don't even know if Thanos will be a shoe-in for the villain. They may hold him off for PIV if cosmic Marvel needs more time to develop. You could see the Masters of Evil or Kang in Phase III.

As Feige said himself they have plans through 2021. You don't make this kind of universe without planning things out many years in advance. In 2006 they had plans through the Avengers to 2015. So I definitely think this is there primary goal, and their plan A. That doesn't mean they don't have a plan B for if Guardians or Inhumans isn't a hit or something, but just because it's 2013 doesn't mean they don't have this type of movie mapped out and thinking about how to make it work.

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

I'm saying that the Avengers is a crossover event but it's Earth Marvel. A big Marvel crossover is unrealistic for one film and things like civil war were spread out over several issues.

I personally find the idea of Rocket Racoon and Iron Man both lame and forced.

Again, you clearly didn't read the post. I acknowledged it was a lot of characters to handle, and one way around that would be to split the movie Deathly Hallows and Mockingjay style. So it wouldn't be one movie, it would be two.

[Lord]

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

The Avengers I always viewed as a franchise with Iron Man, Thor etc. being sub franchises. I personally would not like to see cosmic marvel crossover with earth marvel.

How many characters would be in a film like that? One of the (only) complaints of the first Avengers is that they didn't balance the characters well enough. Jowl are you going to do it for 15+ characters?

Are you serious? That's one of the things they compliment The Avengers for

[Steyin]

No offense Mr. Dent, but I think this "plan", or rather strategy, was sort of obvious the second we knew GotG and InHumans would be developed. Kind of the logical approach I'd say, and am not surprised in the least if it happens. Once Thanos was revealed, the stakes went up and we should expect to see the same of characters involved. Hell, just the mention of TA in IM1 should have led us to expect big things down the road. Now, do these characters all have to appear at the same time? Of course not, but we shouldn't be surprised to see them mixed up at some point. They aren't going bigger than I thought, as you said, but instead are going in exactly the direction I expect them to.

It is a very exciting prospect as a fan of heroes.

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by Lord

Are you serious? That's one of the things they compliment The Avengers for

See DroidWarrior's posts/ the Iron Man and friends argument

[Lord]

Can't find it, either way The Avengers never felt like Iron Man and friends at all, the roles were quite balanced, and i was one of those who feared it would feel too much like an Iron Man 3 because he was the most popular character

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by Lord

Can't find it, either way The Avengers never felt like Iron Man and friends at all, the roles were quite balanced, and i was one of those who feared it would feel too much like an Iron Man 3 because he was the most popular character

Agreed,

It was not my opinion but it was a criticism I have seen. This is not just exclusive to The Avengers, it's something I see with most assemble movies (Wolverine and the X-Men).