Thor News and Pics thread Premier edition: You There, what Realm is this?

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[BigThor]

I know I'm gonna recieve alot of s*** for this, but I would HATE for Cap to lift Thor's hammer on film. I know it could establish him as the "unquestioned leader" or "brother in arms" or whatever, but it would also take away a bit of Thor's uniqueness.

I would also HATE for anyone besides Cap to use Cap's shield, I've just always felt keeping a character's uniqueness is one of the most important things superhero films.

[WildcatNC]

Originally Posted by BigThor

I know I'm gonna recieve alot of s*** for this, but I would HATE for Cap to lift Thor's hammer on film. I know it could establish him as the "unquestioned leader" or "brother in arms" or whatever, but it would also take away a bit of Thor's uniqueness.

I would also HATE for anyone besides Cap to use Cap's shield, I've just always felt keeping a character's uniqueness is one of the most important things superhero films.

I agree with you.

[Gamma Burst]

I would not be very happy with it either.

[herolee10]

Since everywhere I've gone has done this, almost to the point of it being customary, I'll just do it as well:



THREAD MANAGEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!






In any case, as to the whole Captain America lifting up Thor's hammer scenario, yeah I agree, it'd definitely wouldn't do Thor's character any favors. I mean I've read on how people don't like the fact that with War Machine around in the MCU, that it takes away the uniqueness of Iron Man's presence in a way.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by herolee10

In any case, as to the whole Captain America lifting up Thor's hammer scenario, yeah I agree, it'd definitely wouldn't do Thor's character any favors. I mean I've read on how people don't like the fact that with War Machine around in the MCU, that it takes away the uniqueness of Iron Man's presence in a way.

Amen to that brother

[Bren]

I don't see why anyone should get s*** for wanting Thor to be the only one capable of lifting Mjolnir - it's your opinion.

Personally, I love the idea of Cap being able to lift it - because he is a truly great man - because we know the lifting has nothing to do with strength.

Cap lifting Mjolnir, to me is a VERY good way of cementing their relationship - besides being able to lift it, the fact that he gives it back immediately (who wants to give up the power of Thor hmmm?) just highlights why a god could genuinely follow THIS human.

As long as it's just Cap, the idea works very well for both, imo.

[Wolvieboy17]

How would it really detract from Thor, though? I mean, it's a strong part of the mythos that the inscription reads "Whoever lifts this hammer, if he be worthy, shall posess the power of Thor". That inscription in itself imbues Thor with an emmense amount of power and status as a character. The hammer doesn't give him the power, because he IS Thor, he is the powerful entity, the hammer is more his right. Therefore, having a character able to lift it is not only the hammer accepting them as worthy, but Thor too. It's Thor raising a character temporarily to his level, not him being overshadowed by someone else.

Also, depending on how it's portrayed, it could still be done tastefully. Cap could still strain to lift it, and only use it as a blunt weapon. If it was done respectfully it could more of a homage to Thor than a detractor, I mean his whole character arc in this film is about him being humbled, and Thor's respect for Cap in the comics is the best example of how far he's come as a character. Think of the scene in the JMS run when Thor visits Caps memorial. Remember that dialogue and then tell me that Thor is in anyway diminished by bowing and pledging allegiance to Cap. It makes him wise and humble, the two things that makes him worthy as a King of Asgard.

Also, comparing Cap to War Machine as a distraction from Thor? You have to make these character concession in order to actually add layers to every relationship. What would do Thor a real disservice is if every character is portrayed evenly and neutrally. I wouldn't care if Hawkeye thew Cap's shield at one point, if Stark lent a suit of armor to Black Widow etc. Anything like that is fine by me if it serves a strong point in developing the characters relationships.

If you think a characters uniqueness lies more in the tools they use or the costumes they wear, then you have a shallow understanding of the character anyway.

[Wolvieboy17]

Originally Posted by Bren

I don't see why anyone should get s*** for wanting Thor to be the only one capable of lifting Mjolnir - it's your opinion.

Personally, I love the idea of Cap being able to lift it - because he is a truly great man - because we know the lifting has nothing to do with strength.

Cap lifting Mjolnir, to me is a VERY good way of cementing their relationship - besides being able to lift it, the fact that he gives it back immediately (who wants to give up the power of Thor hmmm?) just highlights why a god could genuinely follow THIS human.

As long as it's just Cap, the idea works very well for both, imo.

Exactly

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

If you think a characters uniqueness lies more in the tools they use or the costumes they wear, then you have a shallow understanding of the character anyway.

Let's not get crazy here, Mjolnir is no mere "tool", it's clearly the most instantly recognizable thing about Thor.

[Wolvieboy17]

It's recognisable, sure, but who cares about recognisable by the time we get to Avengers films and Thor sequels. People will know who Thor is. Mjolnir in no way 'defines' him as a character nor should it get in the way of developing his relationship with his fellow Avengers.

[RoughNTumble]

thor is out in australia




golly






I hope it doesn't leak on the internet


>___________________________________>

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

It's recognisable, sure, but who cares about recognisable by the time we get to Avengers films and Thor sequels. People will know who Thor is. Mjolnir in no way 'defines' him as a character nor should it get in the way of developing his relationship with his fellow Avengers.

No it doesn't define him as a character, but it's usually depicted as being the primary source of weather controlling abilities.

So it's a pretty big deal

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

It's recognisable, sure, but who cares about recognisable by the time we get to Avengers films and Thor sequels. People will know who Thor is. Mjolnir in no way 'defines' him as a character nor should it get in the way of developing his relationship with his fellow Avengers.

It's not that the item defines the character, but when it comes to the "Avengers", for me, it's the theme of these own individuals bringing their 'unique' traits/skills/personalities to the table, and learning to coexist with each other while trying to fight for the common good.

Each member is the best at using what they have on their own, so for some, it could seem a little unnecessary for the others to share those things with them.

It'd be like Hawkeye fighting with CA's shield, while Steve fought in Iron Man's suit.

And CA doesn't need to lift the hammer in order to share something similar or earn his way into Thor's brotherhood and respect. What steve does alone as CA would be honorable enough for Someone like Thor to appreciate him for who he is already.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by herolee10

It's not that the item defines the character, but when it comes to the "Avengers", for me, it's the theme of these own individuals bringing their 'unique' traits/skills/personalities to the table, and learning to coexist with each other while trying to fight for the common good.

Each member is the best at using what they have on their own, so for some, it could seem a little unnecessary for the others to share those things with them.

It'd be like Hawkeye fighting with CA's shield, while Steve fought in Iron Man's suit.

And CA doesn't need to lift the hammer in order to share something similar or earn his way into Thor's brotherhood and respect. What steve does alone as CA would be honorable enough for Someone like Thor to appreciate him for who he is already.

Agreed

[Wolvieboy17]

Originally Posted by herolee10

It's not that the item defines the character, but when it comes to the "Avengers", for me, it's the theme of these own individuals bringing their 'unique' traits/skills/personalities to the table, and learning to coexist with each other while trying to fight for the common good.

Each member is the best at using what they have on their own, so for some, it could seem a little unnecessary for the others to share those things with them.

It'd be like Hawkeye fighting with CA's shield, while Steve fought in Iron Man's suit.

And CA doesn't need to lift the hammer in order to share something similar or earn his way into Thor's brotherhood and respect. What steve does alone as CA would be honorable enough for Someone like Thor to appreciate him for who he is already.

Well if you'd read a previous post, I already said I would be fine with any character using anything if it served to develop the characters relationships with one another in a meaningful way.

And your summing them up is still selling the characters short. Cap isn't the 'shield guy'. That's not his 'specialty'. His specialty is pretty much everything. Same with Iron Man. His specialty isn't just the suit, it's technology in general and ingenuity in design. He could apply that in many different circumstances, just as Cap could his skill set.

You are basically distilling these characters key features to the objects they use to hit people with.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

You are basically distilling these characters key features to the objects they use to hit people with.

Whether we like it or not, that's what most people associate with superheroes, not their characters.

Most people don't come anywhere close to analyzing superheroes with the amount of depth that we do.

[Wolvieboy17]

Which is fine for marketing purposes, helping identify who characters are for people, but not in the films themselves, especially not several films into a franchise. That is called appealing to the lowest common denominater. It's got nothing to do with 'analysing' superheroes, it's about portraying them with multiple dimensions

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

Well if you'd read a previous post, I already said I would be fine with any character using anything if it served to develop the characters relationships with one another in a meaningful way.

And your summing them up is still selling the characters short. Cap isn't the 'shield guy'. That's not his 'specialty'. His specialty is pretty much everything. Same with Iron Man. His specialty isn't just the suit, it's technology in general and ingenuity in design. He could apply that in many different circumstances, just as Cap could his skill set.

You are basically distilling these characters key features to the objects they use to hit people with.

Did I say that CA's specialty is being the SHIELD guy? Point to where I said that, since I can't remember saying that.

And the point that I was trying to get at is that:

1. Could you logically see anyone using CA's shield in the same caliber that he could?

2. I KNOW that Tony's expertise lie with technology; that's why only someone like him could use his iron man suits to their fullest since he's had the longest experience using them.

It's not about assigning one person with one special ability alone. It's the FACT that these individuals are the BEST at what they use since no one else has used it like them; that doesn't mean that they can't do anything else, but when it comes to using their trademark gifts/skills, they're the BEST at it.

And there are OTHER ways that these heroes could come to understand each other that didn't involve using the other persons's trademark weapon or such.

[Wolvieboy17]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Did I say that CA's specialty is being the SHIELD guy? Point to where I said that, since I can't remember saying that.

And the point that I was trying to get at is that:

1. Could you logically see anyone using CA's shield in the same caliber that he could?

2. I KNOW that Tony's expertise lie with technology; that's why only someone like him could use his iron man suits to their fullest since he's had the longest experience using them.

It's not about assigning one person with one special ability alone. It's the FACT that these individuals are the BEST at what they use since no one else has used it like them; that doesn't mean that they can't do anything else, but when it comes to using their trademark gifts/skills, they're the BEST at it.

And there are OTHER ways that these heroes could come to understand each other that didn't involve using the other persons's trademark weapon or such.

See, you've completely misunderstood my posts now. I never said they DID match their ability, in fact I went out of my way to say if Cap lifted Thor's hammer he should be unrefined and clunky with it. Thor's hammer is a special case, because it's not about using it, it's about only the truly WORTHY being able to LIFT it. No one said anything about being better with it than Thor. Because of that element, and the fact that its made a feature of in 'Thor' itself, with no one being able to lift it, simply showing Cap lift it would be meaningful enough. He wouldn't even need to fight with it, he could simply hand it to Thor.

And this about more than 'understanding' each other. We've covered all this on the last page or so. 'Understanding' who each other is would be for the first movie, but the second and 3rd film would be about cementing their close, personal bond with one another. Thor seeing Mjolnir accept Cap lifting it would bond them for life.

[Bren]

Mjolnir is intensely personal to Thor. Hell, it's got an enchantment and writing referring directly to him. How cool is it that a human being who will eventually lead him is the only other being that can pick it up.

I can just see Thor's face; shock, disbelief, maybe a little worry - then when Steve holds out the hammer to Thor, a nod of acknowledgment as he takes the hammer back from Steve. He looks down, reads the inscription again. A small smile, looks up at Cap and says "More than worthy. Yes, I will follow you".

Both men made greater by the whole event. Steve is Worthy, but Mjolnir is Thor's.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

And this about more than 'understanding' each other. We've covered all this on the last page or so. 'Understanding' who each other is would be for the first movie, but the second and 3rd film would be about cementing their close, personal bond with one another. Thor seeing Mjolnir accept Cap lifting it would bond them for life.

Either that or fighting an army of alien invaders or whatever else world threatening threat the Avengers face in the film.

Originally Posted by Bren

"More than worthy. Yes, I will follow you"

Too far

[SuperSAINT]

Originally Posted by Chewy

I doubt it. But you could tell he was puffy and his chin was kinda fat in IM2.

Not suprising given SHIELD's mandate of meeting prospective clients in donut restaurants

[Bren]

Originally Posted by BigThor

Too far

Critics just don't 'get' it hehehehe