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Old 04-27-2011, 06:15 PM   #1
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Default Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

SPOILER..........and speculation.



In the summary it gives plot details that Magneto is after Shaw cause he kept him in concentration camps because he knew he was a mutant and wanted to unleash his power. WTF?? Based on what I'm reading this very much sounds Mr Sinisterish. Sinister was actually involved in some part of Mags history and he worked for the Nazis. The more I learn of the plot the more something seems off. Riptide is also in this. He was never in the Hellfire club but he was a part of Sinister's crew. Maybe they are throwing us for a loop and Shaw will turn out to be Mr Sinister. That would be awesome and a real curve ball. Also the scene where Shaw is shown using his power and he appears to have multiple arms and heads. Sinister can shape shift and his body is malleable. I'm not sure FOX is that smart but it would be interesting.

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Old 04-27-2011, 06:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

That would be a way to pull a Ducard...

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Old 04-27-2011, 08:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

The Sebastion Shaw/Magneto thing is pulled straight out of the comics. Shaw posed as a doctor in the concentration camps (I'm forgetting the name he used right now) and ran experiments on Magento leading him to believe that he was given his powers.

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Old 04-27-2011, 10:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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The Sebastion Shaw/Magneto thing is pulled straight out of the comics. Shaw posed as a doctor in the concentration camps (I'm forgetting the name he used right now) and ran experiments on Magento leading him to believe that he was given his powers.
Um no, that was Sinister. Shaw isn't even as old as Prof x and Mags. He close in age, probably n his 50's. Shaw wasnt even around when Mags was a young man. Sinister was and he worked for the Nazis. I know im correct. I don't wanna say u r wrong but I think u may be. Unless Marvel has recton this to be the case it's not true. If their was a Shaw involved it wouldve been Jacob Shaw, Sebastion's father.

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Old 04-27-2011, 10:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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SPOILER..........and speculation.



In the summary it gives plot details that Magneto is after Shaw cause he kept him in concentration camps because he knew he was a mutant and wanted to unleash his power. WTF?? Based on what I'm reading this very much sounds Mr Sinisterish. Sinister was actually involved in some part of Mags history and he worked for the Nazis. The more I learn of the plot the more something seems off. Riptide is also in this. He was never in the Hellfire club but he was a part of Sinister's crew. Maybe they are throwing us for a loop and Shaw will turn out to be Mr Sinister. That would be awesome and a real curve ball. Also the scene where Shaw is shown using his power and he appears to have multiple arms and heads. Sinister can shape shift and his body is malleable. I'm not sure FOX is that smart but it would be interesting.
No I think they just took liberties with the characters like they've said several times regarding this film and that they've done lots of times over the course of the X-Men films.

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Old 04-27-2011, 10:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

Dr. Schmidt. They're not going to have him be Sinister just to be killed off by the end of this film. He's Shaw, who was Nazi Doctor Schmidt, I do believe. An acceptable way to explain his lack of aging could come from his energy absorption. If it enhances his strength, speed, etc... it's not too ridiculous to assume he could stunt his own growth. We'll see.

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Old 04-27-2011, 11:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

I wondered if he was Sinister ever since Bacon was cast and I still think it's a strong possibility. I actually wouldn't even be surprised if they merged the two characters.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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Dr. Schmidt. They're not going to have him be Sinister just to be killed off by the end of this film. He's Shaw, who was Nazi Doctor Schmidt, I do believe. An acceptable way to explain his lack of aging could come from his energy absorption. If it enhances his strength, speed, etc... it's not too ridiculous to assume he could stunt his own growth. We'll see.
Wait a min, Shaw was a Nazi Dr in the comics now?? WTF? Who is this Dr Schmidt? I've never heard of this character. Please tell me this is something from the movie only.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

It was apparently in the Magneto Origin film script, which a lot of 'First Class' was originally based off of.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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I wondered if he was Sinister ever since Bacon was cast and I still think it's a strong possibility. I actually wouldn't even be surprised if they merged the two characters.
Me too. I always felt that Bacon fitted Sinister more. I even said so when it was announced that he'd been cast as the villian before it was named which one. I also understand that I'm probably giving FOX to much credit doing something as interesting as this. Would be pretty cool none the less.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

First of all, Fox didn't write the movie - Vaughn was given total creative control. While Bacon would make a great Sinister, and weaving Sinister into Magneto's past isn't a bad idea, the villain in this film clearly is Shaw and his Hellfire Club. If he winds up being Sinister, it cheapens the Hellfire Club and Shaw as characters, especially if the Shaw character is killed off by the end, which I'm speculating he will be. And if he winds up being Sinister, that also cheapens that character. So, it wouldn't really be that great of an idea unless they had a truly brilliant way to pull it off.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

Just for the record, Magneto's rivlary with Shaw is lifted from the comics. Mags joined the Hellfire Club for a brief period, and challenged Shaw's leadership after he found out Shaw was bankrolling "Project Wideawake". They fought, Shaw was cast out, and Magneto become "The Grey King".

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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First of all, Fox didn't write the movie - Vaughn was given total creative control. While Bacon would make a great Sinister, and weaving Sinister into Magneto's past isn't a bad idea, the villain in this film clearly is Shaw and his Hellfire Club. If he winds up being Sinister, it cheapens the Hellfire Club and Shaw as characters, especially if the Shaw character is killed off by the end, which I'm speculating he will be. And if he winds up being Sinister, that also cheapens that character. So, it wouldn't really be that great of an idea unless they had a truly brilliant way to pull it off.
I don't feel it cheapens the character. Sinister was really involved in Mags past and he was a DR working with the nazis. I'm just speculating about this and not saying it's true. As far as the Hellfire Club goes it's not aan accurate version or at least the members we know save for Emma and Shaw. What the devil is Riptide even doing their? He was never involved with the Hellfire club, he was one of Sinister's henchmen. In the end it probably more then likly will be Shaw and Shaw alone, but d@mn if they didn't take some major liberties with the character. They place Shaw in a position that Sinister held in the comics and ignore the fact that his company built the Sentinals as well as him being involved in the project. Also he was directly behind the manipulation of JEan Grey thus giving rise to Dark phoenix. Just more magling by FOX and Singer. Would've made more sense to just use Sinister.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

Riptide's an expendable character - he doesn't need to be a Marauder, he can be changed or utilized in any way as long as they get the basics down - name, power, allegience (good or bad.) Azazel wasn't in the Hellfire Club either. A lot of thing in Singer's world are different - it's not meant to be a carbon copy of the comics. But I don't know if Sinister posing as Shaw is the best idea.

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Old 04-28-2011, 05:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

It's a shame Nicholas Hoult is Beast because he would have been the perfect Cyclops based off his pre-Blue Mutation look. Mini Marsden.

EDIT:wrong thread, sorry.

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Old 04-28-2011, 09:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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First of all, Fox didn't write the movie - Vaughn was given total creative control. While Bacon would make a great Sinister, and weaving Sinister into Magneto's past isn't a bad idea, the villain in this film clearly is Shaw and his Hellfire Club. If he winds up being Sinister, it cheapens the Hellfire Club and Shaw as characters, especially if the Shaw character is killed off by the end, which I'm speculating he will be. And if he winds up being Sinister, that also cheapens that character. So, it wouldn't really be that great of an idea unless they had a truly brilliant way to pull it off.
Since when does cheapening a character from the comics stop a decision from being made in these films?

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Old 04-28-2011, 09:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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Since when does cheapening a character from the comics stop a decision from being made in these films?
Just because it's happened before doesn't mean it needs to happen again.

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Old 04-28-2011, 09:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

I must admit the idea is interesting but I think for simplicities sake he'll be Shaw and Shaw only.

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Old 04-28-2011, 10:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

This is just another case of when people thought the character of Resse Coleman or Anthony Michael Halls character would end up being Riddler.

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Old 04-29-2011, 02:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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Riptide's an expendable character - he doesn't need to be a Marauder, he can be changed or utilized in any way as long as they get the basics down - name, power, allegience (good or bad.) Azazel wasn't in the Hellfire Club either. A lot of thing in Singer's world are different - it's not meant to be a carbon copy of the comics. But I don't know if Sinister posing as Shaw is the best idea.
I guess you're right, and although the movie looks well done I really hope Marvel gets these rites back away from FOX and Singer's mangling of chareacters and history. Yeah the history in the comics is convoluted a lot of times but not to the point where FOX is screwing up characters. Havok is Cyclops dad in this? Really? Jeez. If not his dad there will be no connection to Scott. It'll either be one or the other.

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Old 04-29-2011, 11:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

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I guess you're right, and although the movie looks well done I really hope Marvel gets these rites back away from FOX and Singer's mangling of chareacters and history. Yeah the history in the comics is convoluted a lot of times but not to the point where FOX is screwing up characters. Havok is Cyclops dad in this? Really? Jeez. If not his dad there will be no connection to Scott. It'll either be one or the other.
I'll take mangling of characters and history if a great movie comes along with it. Marvel would probably make a comics-accurate film but it would likely be very safe other than that, and the action might not be very good.

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Old 04-29-2011, 11:43 AM   #22
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

A Marvel Studios version would possibly be more comic-accurate but even Marvel's own movies take liberties.

Jane Foster was a nurse in the Thor comics, not an astrophysicist, and Thor had an alter-ego as a crippled doctor who would bash his cane on the floor to transform to godly form - that doesn't happen in the film (though there is a nod to the Donald Blake ID). Captain America begins as a USO entertainer in the movie, apparently. In the mess that is also called Iron Man 2, the Whiplash character is an amalgam of comics Whiplash and the Crimson Dynamo. Etc, etc.

The X-Men films have always deviated from source and followed their own path, and that deviation becomes greater with each film because it has to follow the path set before it.

And yet the hypocrisy here is incredible. I remember the people who attacked X3 for Juggernaut not being a mutant and for the family link to Xavier not being included; for Callisto also having the power of Caliban and enhanced speed that was more like Quicksilver; and so many more comic-inaccurate details, none of which were truly significant within the larger tableau of the film. Yet those people are now drooling over X-Men: First Class and sweeping aside complaints about changes made to the mythos.

I am fine with the changes in First Class, for the most part, if the film and story works and the characters are identifiable. It does seem like there are elements of Sinister in the portrayal of Shaw (and Bacon looks nothing like Shaw at all, which does bother me a little bit!) and the inclusion of more visual characters like Azazel and Riptide as Hellfire Club members makes sense (though Leland and his mass-altering power might have been cool too).

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Old 04-29-2011, 11:52 AM   #23
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Default Re: Did anyone read the plot summary? Not Sure about Shaw is really Shaw..

All films take liberties.some go on boards bashing Bryan Singer for ruining the X-Men
because of changes and let many others get pass.And yet Singer revived the genre and payed the way for many others.

X-Men Is one of toughest to adapt.Marvel has done their own reconning as Matthew Vaughn himself pointed out.Another problem Is nowadays many filmakers are more Intrested In looking at the Ultimate Line that the classic 616 universe.Plus the people who do Hulk are obsessed with drawing from the 1970's TV show which used very little from the comics.

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Old 04-30-2011, 03:12 AM   #24
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All films take liberties.some go on boards bashing Bryan Singer for ruining the X-Men
because of changes and let many others get pass.And yet Singer revived the genre and payed the way for many others.

X-Men Is one of toughest to adapt.Marvel has done their own reconning as Matthew Vaughn himself pointed out.Another problem Is nowadays many filmakers are more Intrested In looking at the Ultimate Line that the classic 616 universe.Plus the people who do Hulk are obsessed with drawing from the 1970's TV show which used very little from the comics.
Let's not all complain anymore about liberties. Why don't Singer and Fox just leave Prof X walking and keep his hair while they are making changes. We all know it'll be cooler for Xavier to get some action walking, besides they can just say he was in a the wheelchair for the first xfilms because of old age. No problem at all anymore. Let Fox just keep on going changing stuff.

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Old 04-30-2011, 03:37 AM   #25
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I am fine with the changes in First Class, for the most part, if the film and story works and the characters are identifiable. It does seem like there are elements of Sinister in the portrayal of Shaw (and Bacon looks nothing like Shaw at all, which does bother me a little bit!) and the inclusion of more visual characters like Azazel and Riptide as Hellfire Club members makes sense (though Leland and his mass-altering power might have been cool too).
Why not just use Sinister if you gonna mesh Shaw and Sinister together. Sinister is a more popular villain then Shaw. While I like the Hellfire club they really shouldn't be used unless they are tackling Dark Phoenix first or if not then the Sentinel project. Too late for that though. Bacon could've just as well played Sinister. Looks wise he fits Sinister more the Shaw. I see no reason why Leland, Pierce, and Selene couldn't be featured if the Inner Circle is going to be the villains, especially over Riptide and Azazel, who aren't more visually in my opinion.

Shaw's powers have been tweaked. So now we can add a lil bit of Bishop in that melting pot of Shaw and Sinister. Bishop absorbs energy and can rechannel it. Bishop can actually pull that off where Shaw is foot stomping the ground cause he's done a feat very similar in the comics. Shaw can't do that, his absorbed energy translate into strength, speed and invulnerability. I however don't mind the tweaking here, cause it gives the character more visual excitement as a villain and his energy absorbing power is still intact although altered. Changes like that can better the story.

Singer already said that he thought and I'm focusing on the "he" that he thought it would be cool to use the Hellfire Club in a 60's setting. That was his
opinion. So basically him and Fox and Vaughan decided they'll just change stuff that serves no purpose to move or adapt the story for a film. Let's use Havoc, oh wait he's Scott younger bro, oh no problem well make him his father now. This crap is laughable. The movie may be good with Vaughan directing but like all the others they aren't good x men movies.

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