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Old 04-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #1
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #2
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #3
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion

Countries are just gangs with more firepower. Superman is now neutral, as he should be.

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Old 04-29-2011, 01:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

I'll believe that when he quits being Clark and starts living in the Fortress.

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Old 04-29-2011, 01:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

@RoughNTumble Just because he's American doesn't mean he has to condone or believe _______ activities the United States government is involved in.

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Old 04-29-2011, 01:45 AM   #6
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I'll believe that when he quits being Clark and starts living in the Fortress.
I don't see how that's relevant. Clark isn't an international figure.

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Old 04-29-2011, 01:46 AM   #7
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I don't see how that's relevant. Clark isn't an international figure.
It's relevant because Superman isn't really giving up anything.

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Old 04-29-2011, 01:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

He's giving up an association with one country to be seen as a protector of earth's interests.

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Old 04-29-2011, 01:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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He's giving up an association with one country to be seen as a protector of earth's interests.
But he still lives as an American citizen as Clark Kent. It's a big hypocritical lie. If a man gave up his citizenship to show himself as a global citizen, but secretly lived as an American citizen, it would be a completely hollow gesture.

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Old 04-29-2011, 02:06 AM   #10
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Clark is an illegal alien. Quite literally.

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Old 04-29-2011, 09:28 AM   #11
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But he still lives as an American citizen as Clark Kent. It's a big hypocritical lie. If a man gave up his citizenship to show himself as a global citizen, but secretly lived as an American citizen, it would be a completely hollow gesture.
How is this more hypocritical than standing for "Truth" and lying to protect his identity from his closest friends for years? Is that just as hollow? Superman is a symbol that people can aspire and he is there to bring out the best in humanity.

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Old 04-29-2011, 09:31 AM   #12
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The National Security Adviser confronted him with several Marine snipers armed with Kryptonite bullets. They wanted to know why Superman attended a demonstration in Tehran to show his support. The National Security Advisor said Superman's actions made it seem like America itself was somehow involved because the media ran with it and overreacted (sound familiar!? ). Thus Superman told him of the decision.
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Just stupid.

I once heard Dennis O'Neil describe the editors of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman as "custodians of American folklore". This is the single greatest betrayal of that responsibility I have ever witnessed.

I don't care about the reasons listed in the story -- the story was contrived for the sole purpose of Superman renouncing his American citizenship. It was the climax and the sole consequence of the whole story. The reasons may make sense within the context of the story ... but the renunciation of American citizenship by an American superhero is simply unacceptable. The use of a commemorative 900th issue (the previous 899 being carried by American consumers) for Superman to denounce the country that made him (as a character, as a franchise, and DC as a whole) what he is, is a kick in the teeth to American fans.

As a matter of course, I don't boycott ... but I'm done until DC fixes this. If DC doesn't want Superman to be identified as American, then this American will send his money elsewhere. This is the functional equivalent of having James Bond defect. I'm out until Superman re-asserts his citizenship. If he never does, I've purchased my last Superman.

I don't begrude other cultures their folk/cultural heroes ... but leave ours alone.

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Superman is still an American, both in his universe and in the real world. But instead of being about the "american way" which is obsessively patriotic and stupid, he is about what's good and decent in general.

Lets not forget that America didnt invent all these ideals, they were borrowed from Europe, so its not like America is the founder and keeper of those ideals despite what people in Alabama think. And its not like America hasnt taken a dump on those ideals thousands of times.

Superman already is a global hero standing for what's right in general. The american way hasnt been applied in decades.

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Old 04-29-2011, 09:36 AM   #13
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People around the world have stopped being so obsessively patriotic for decades. I mean sure we all love our countries but you dont see others being so obsessed about it like Americans are. You re fed so much propaganda every day, telling you how superior your country is, how everybody else is either with you or with terrorists who envy your democracy in their caves and wish to destroy it. Pull your heads out of your asses and realize that Superman is global, is beloved around the world and has been championing ancient human ideals since forever. Its time he actually becomes a global hero. He will still be of american origin but he will be global like a gift to the world. Dont be afraid to share.

Oh an in every rating on citizen happiness, wellfare and health, Sweden and Norway always end up on top. The US isnt heaven on earth despite what they tell you. Just take a walk in Compton at night and then come tell us about it if you disagree.... If you re still alive that is.


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Old 04-29-2011, 09:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

Obama basically IS Superman in this sense. That's right, I said it.

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Old 04-29-2011, 09:43 AM   #15
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

If "Man of Steel" incorporates any of this, the film will fail miserably....This is not what a Superman film should encompass!

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Old 04-29-2011, 09:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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If "Man of Steel" incorporates any of this, the film will fail miserably....This is not what a Superman film should encompass!
Yeah, how dare Superman not let other people get blamed for his actions? Totally unheroic and not what Superman's about.

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Old 04-29-2011, 09:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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Obama basically IS Superman in this sense. That's right, I said it.
Keep politics in the Political thread(s), please. That's right, I said it.

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Old 04-29-2011, 10:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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Keep politics in the Political thread(s), please. That's right, I said it.
Quit stealing my jabs, dammit.

And my bad.

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Old 04-29-2011, 10:10 AM   #19
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No problem. All good.

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Old 04-29-2011, 10:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

What I like about this, something the complainers don’t seem to take into account (even if they have all the right to complain) is that Superman actually has a very good reason for his decision. It’s a very well-explained, relatable, real-world-based decision that is very hard to argue against. The situation being as it is in the story, Superman is taking the best line of action he possibly could, and while it drifts away from the image of “Superman the American”, it remains well within the area of “Superman the awesome, noble, empathic superhero”. It’s obvious he’s making a sacrifice here, renouncing a great privilege given to him by a country obsessed with sweeping away illegal immigrants. The thing is, it’s all political. It’s a political decision, and I’m sure that if you asked him (if he existed, that is) he would say he still sees himself as an American at heart and all that. I may not understand it too well, their history being what it is, but Americans have this deeply ingrained pride in who they are and what their country represents. I’m sure Clark Kent would have that too.

I understand the complaints are not aimed against the story itself, but against the bottom line: Superman does not want to be viewed as an American anymore. The thing is, I couldn’t care less about the impact this has on the public perception. It’s a great decision when it comes to depicting the character’s personality and points of view, and it’s something comics should do more often. Kudos to the writer for the balls (Goyer, was it?).


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Old 04-29-2011, 12:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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But he still lives as an American citizen as Clark Kent. It's a big hypocritical lie. If a man gave up his citizenship to show himself as a global citizen, but secretly lived as an American citizen, it would be a completely hollow gesture.
There is nothing hypocritical about it. Is an American hypocritical if he doesn't agree with their government actions? Superman is a different figure than Clark Kent.

Clark is a citizen, he works, pays taxes and votes on elections. Superman is a protector of mankind.

Superman just don't want to be associate with a specific country and be judged as a poppet of a government. He wants to be a global figure, unattached of whatever organizations (for instance, Dark Knight Returns).

As he should be.

All this repercussions and complains are just Americans whining.

Something similar even happened with Captain America in the past. THAT was a big deal.


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Old 04-29-2011, 02:45 PM   #22
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All i have to say about the subject is... ITS ABOUT TIME!!

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Old 04-29-2011, 03:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

Pre-Crisis, when Superman was actually popular, relevant and successful, Superman was an honorary citizen of every country in the world and therefore scenarios like this wouldn't happen. In fact the one time that it DID happen was in Batman And the Outsiders #1, which was a story written by Mike W. Barr but was suggested by Superman hater and Byrne co-conspirator Frank Miller. The fact that the UN decided to do this for Superman just shows how transcendent a figure he once was, and should be. But I'm not surprised DC went this route with Superman, it's not like they know anything about the character anyway. They're just basically holding the copyright hostage while they continue to exploit Siegel and Shuster's families.


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Old 04-29-2011, 03:43 PM   #24
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I just read the story and have one more thing to say about it: It's one of the best Superman stories I've ever read. Kudos to Goyer. This gives me a lot of hope for the movie.

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Old 04-29-2011, 03:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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There is nothing hypocritical about it. Is an American hypocritical if he doesn't agree with their government actions? Superman is a different figure than Clark Kent.
No, they are the same person.

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Clark is a citizen, he works, pays taxes and votes on elections. Superman is a protector of mankind.
And they are the same person

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Superman just don't want to be associate with a specific country and be judged as a poppet of a government. He wants to be a global figure, unattached of whatever organizations (for instance, Dark Knight Returns).

As he should be.

All this repercussions and complains are just Americans whining.

Something similar even happened with Captain America in the past. THAT was a big deal.
Yes, because Captain America had revealed his identity to the world. You can still be a US Citizen and criticize your country, but if you refute your citizenship and still secretly have one, it's a hollow gesture, because you still have the benefits of being an American citizen.

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