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Old 05-07-2011, 03:30 PM   #51
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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There are black, asian and I'm sure other races who are asgardians in the movie played by extras
I haven't seen the movie. Did you SEE any black people as featured extras?



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Old 05-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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Is it really so bad? In the Spawn film, they replaced Chapel (a black male) with Priest (a white female). I was confused for about two seconds, then I went back to not caring because she was such a bad-ass character. And apparently, she made enough of an impact to where Chapel being Al's killer was retconned so that it was Jessica Priest. If gender or age or ethnicity are important to the character's actions, then don't change it. Otherwise, who cares? They have a 6 foot tall Australian playing a traditionally five foot Canadian. And I think that is fine. If it doesn't affect characterization, then it should not be that big of a deal unless you are the most ardent purist.
I didn't say it was bad, but I'm just trying to explain the mentality. A lot of folks (not just comic fans, mind you) are purists. Do you remember what happened when James Bond was cast as a blond? There were literally hate sites erected in Daniel Craig's honor. LOL Hopefully, most people aren't that wacky, but it's perfectly natural to be a little taken aback at the site of a Viking god being portrayed as a black man.

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

There was definetley black extras in Asgard and I think besides Hogun I saw a few Asians............my god this is starting to sound weird

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:33 PM   #54
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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I think some of the fans who are upset it is because they want him to look like the comic character which is understandable Elba even says so himself in interviews but there is a vocal minority who are complaining and not just because he doesn't look like his comic counterpart which does have a racist element.
I can live with people who are upset over that aspect. It is like the whole Michael Clark Duncan situation as Kingpin. I remember reading that the producers chose him because he was actually muscular and large, rather than simply fat and large. However, it was inaccurate to the source material. I remember people having that complaint about the Halle Berry in CINO. Expecting that accuracy as a comic fan, is absolutely justified.

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:34 PM   #55
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

You can't bring Hogun into this. His story is quite specific.



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Old 05-07-2011, 03:35 PM   #56
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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I can live with people who are upset over that aspect. It is like the whole Michael Clark Duncan situation as Kingpin. I remember reading that the producers chose him because he was actually muscular and large, rather than simply fat and large. However, it was inaccurate to the source material. I remember people having that complaint about the Halle Berry in CINO. Expecting that accuracy as a comic fan, is absolutely justified.

Vartha refers to me as a Kirby Purist. What can I say?





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Old 05-07-2011, 03:36 PM   #57
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

Purists irritate me.

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #58
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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Purists irritate me.
I bet you were a big fan of Dr. Doom in the FF movies.



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Old 05-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #59
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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I didn't say it was bad, but I'm just trying to explain the mentality. A lot of folks (not just comic fans, mind you) are purists. Do you remember what happened when James Bond was cast as a blond? There were literally hate sites erected in Daniel Craig's honor. LOL Hopefully, most people aren't that wacky, but it's perfectly natural to be a little taken aback at the site of a Viking god being portrayed as a black man.
True.

Alot of Fanboys complain but most are won over. Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, Heath Ledger as Joker, Micheal Keaton as Batman they all got heat from sections of the fanbase but won most of them over.

Considering there was lunatics saying they were going to boycott Thor because of Elba being cast the film doesn't seem to be doing too badly

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:40 PM   #60
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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I didn't say it was bad, but I'm just trying to explain the mentality. A lot of folks (not just comic fans, mind you) are purists. Do you remember what happened when James Bond was cast as a blond? There were literally hate sites erected in Daniel Craig's honor. LOL Hopefully, most people aren't that wacky, but it's perfectly natural to be a little taken aback at the site of a Viking god being portrayed as a black man.
Is it natural? Do gods have an ethnicity? I have yet to see Asgard on a globe or a world map. The worshipers were Scandinavian, not the gods. If gods are Scandinavian, then a lot of snakes, horses and wolves need to be considered Scandinavian people, because a few of the deities in Norse mythology are not even humanoid, though they come from humanoid parents. I agree with Idris Elba. Of all of the ridiculous elements of these myths, including humanoids fathering beasts, magical rainbow bridges, and frost giants, people want to freak out over dark skin?

Though, I admit that you do have a good point. I do remember the irrational backlash over Daniel Craig being blond. But I think people like that, are the same people who are upset because of how Heidmall looks in the comics. They don't care about Heidmall's non-existent ethnic affiliation. They just care about how he looks. They are the same people over on the Amazing Spider-Man film boards, complaining about the lack of a belt on the new Spidey suit.

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:41 PM   #61
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

People who threaten to boycott things shouldn't ever be taken seriously. They should be slapped upside the head.

And if people really wanna be purists... they should complain about Thor not being a douche bag ginger and Odin being an utter ******** with no redeeming qualities at all. That's what they were like in the myths.

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

We complained about that in the 60's.



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Old 05-07-2011, 03:46 PM   #63
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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Not even close. Heimdall was born from nine virgin mothers (which I don't even know the logistics on how you can be born one person from nine separate people). Odin's eight legged horse, Slepnir and the mighty Wolf that will slay him, Fenrir, are Loki's children. And Loki is a humanoid giant from Midgard. Also, the Midgard serpent, Jörmungandr, (circles the earth and kills Thor in Ragnarok) is also a child of Loki. So...most of Loki's children aren't even human, let alone humanoid, even though Loki is a humanoid. That is what makes the race debate even more ridiculous. A lot of the deities and children in the Norse pantheon are not even human or humanoid. We are projecting human ignorance and limited thought, onto fictional ethereal beings that are above race and human relations.
That's a very good point. And if Heimdall was not rendered white in the comics and Norse myths, it would be a non-issue. However, he is. And to my knowledge, most of the Aesir are portrayed that way in the comics, as well as the aforementioned myths. The bottom line is that purists and those who border on being purists expect actors/actresses chosen to portray their beloved characters to closely embody the role. When that doesn't happen, they either say "umm.. ok that's interesting" or they cry about it.

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Old 05-07-2011, 03:51 PM   #64
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

I think alot fans are purists to an extent but some people just take it over board like complaining about Andrew Garfeilds haircut in the new Spider-Man movie is going to ruin the film or that the size of the S symbol on Supermans costume and the shade of blue of it is some epic disaster!

We all want things to be like they are in the source matetial but you got to be willing to give filmmakers atleast some leeway

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:00 PM   #65
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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I bet you were a big fan of Dr. Doom in the FF movies.


I wasn't. Why? Not because the details were wrong, but because the character was wrong.

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:01 PM   #66
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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I think alot fans are purists to an extent but some people just take it over board like complaining about Andrew Garfeilds haircut in the new Spider-Man movie is going to ruin the film or that the size of the S symbol on Supermans costume and the shade of blue of it is some epic disaster!

We all want things to be like they are in the source matetial but you got to be willing to give filmmakers atleast some leeway
When I found out people were complaining about the shade of blue on Supermans suit a little piece of me shrivelled up and died.

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:03 PM   #67
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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That's a very good point. And if Heimdall was not rendered white in the comics and Norse myths, it would be a non-issue. However, he is. And to my knowledge, most of the Aesir are portrayed that way in the comics, as well as the aforementioned myths. The bottom line is that purists and those who border on being purists expect actors/actresses chosen to portray their beloved characters to closely embody the role. When that doesn't happen, they either say "umm.. ok that's interesting" or they cry about it.
Even then I still call shenanigans. Laufey is not blue or male in Norse myth. In fact, Laufey is female and spindly. Loki certainly isn't blue, and the only Icelandic (one of the modern Scandinavian people). There is too much cherry-picking about what makes people upset. If you have been to the boycott thor website, you will notice that they are upset with how this movie compares to the actual Norse myth and not the Marvel comic character. And even if we are strictly talking comics, we shouldn't even have a bearded Thor unless we are dealing with Thunder Strike rather than Thor Odinson.

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:11 PM   #68
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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Is it natural? Do gods have an ethnicity? I have yet to see Asgard on a globe or a world map. The worshipers were Scandinavian, not the gods. If gods are Scandinavian, then a lot of snakes, horses and wolves need to be considered Scandinavian people, because a few of the deities in Norse mythology are not even humanoid, though they come from humanoid parents. I agree with Idris Elba. Of all of the ridiculous elements of these myths, including humanoids fathering beasts, magical rainbow bridges, and frost giants, people want to freak out over dark skin?

Though, I admit that you do have a good point. I do remember the irrational backlash over Daniel Craig being blond. But I think people like that, are the same people who are upset because of how Heidmall looks in the comics. They don't care about Heidmall's non-existent ethnic affiliation. They just care about how he looks. They are the same people over on the Amazing Spider-Man film boards, complaining about the lack of a belt on the new Spidey suit.
Well, the Norse gods are a construct of the Scandinavian people; they aren't real. However, in various works of literature, they have generally been portrayed to closely resemble the aforementioned Scandinavians. And in the comics, they clearly look white, as well. So yeah, it's perfectly natural for some people to be somewhat perturbed by the casting of Elba in the role of Heimdall. And it's also perfectly natural for others, such as yourself, to take it deeper than that and imagine further possibilities.

That's why I said it all comes down to preference. To be honest, all comic fans are a little bit 'purist'. It's human nature. Some people can look at a certain change and reason it, which is what I think you're doing. Not everyone wants to do that though. To be honest, any alteration to a work of fiction can be reasoned. We can cast Superman as a non-humanoid looking alien and reason that right? We can argue how unlikely it is for a Kryptonian to look the way Supes does right? Anything can be reasoned, but I think the large majority of us are pleased with the original source material and thus have a desire for certain characters to be portrayed accurately based on what we've already grown up reading/watching. If you're looking to explore different possibilities, more power to you, but everyone simply isn't.


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Old 05-07-2011, 04:15 PM   #69
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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You're wrong. It's because Heimdall "looks" white and Elba doesn't. It's because Elba looks nothing like his "blood sister" Jaimie Alexander. It's because Kirby never drew a black Heimdall.

You're trying to elevate this to racism and it's not. Well not for me anyway.

Agreed. But Elba was awesome as Heimdall, so no real beef from me.

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:16 PM   #70
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There is too much cherry-picking about what makes people upset.
This is very true! There seems to be a double-standard at times. It goes both ways though.

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:45 PM   #71
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

Kirby created Thor in 1962. Kirby put Gabe Jones in the Howling Commandos in 1963. Look at the arbitrarily multi-racial population of New Genesis, his idealized conceptual refinement of the Marvel Asgard. If Kirby had created his Asgardians in any year other than the fledgling first that Marvel was tentatively launching new heroes in the wake of the Fantastic Four's success, you would have seen at least one black character in the mix.

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:48 PM   #72
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

Call Ripleys! We have a bonafide mind reader! Can you tell me what Kirby thought about the Twilight Zone? Did he steal the character of Franklin Richards from the episode in my avatar?


There are so many things I want to ask.



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Old 05-07-2011, 04:53 PM   #73
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

Here's my thing...I just think switching races in a case like this is unneccessary. That being said there have been race switches that have brought good performances.

Elba was good very underused as Hemidall. When they cast him I thought maybe they're amping the role and they need someone with alot of talent to bring it. yeah theyre some white actors who couldve given a good performance...I cant think of any right now but theyre there

But its very clear to me, while I do think he was cast partly because of talent, they just wanted a black person in the cast so they could put him in the marketing because for as big in the marketing as Hemidall is he is nowhere near as big in the movie

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Old 05-07-2011, 05:04 PM   #74
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Here's my thing...I just think switching races in a case like this is unneccessary. That being said there have been race switches that have brought good performances.

Elba was good very underused as Hemidall. When they cast him I thought maybe they're amping the role and they need someone with alot of talent to bring it. yeah theyre some white actors who couldve given a good performance...I cant think of any right now but theyre there

But its very clear to me, while I do think he was cast partly because of talent, they just wanted a black person in the cast so they could put him in the marketing because for as big in the marketing as Hemidall is he is nowhere near as big in the movie

That is the thing, Branagh has already said that he wanted to work with Elba on this project. It wasn't am racially motivated decision to some how market to minorities/blacks. In fact, Heidmall's role, though important, is small. Branagh simply appreciates Elba's talent as an actor.

http://**************.com/fansites/r.../news/?a=33979

This is a movie about a Marvel super hero, inspired by old Scandiavian legends. There is no real way to market that to minorities. Either they will see it (as I did), or they will go spend dollars on the next Tyler Perry vehicle or some other stereotypical schlock that is actually marketed toward blacks/minorities.

I do agree with you however on the matter of a white actor having been able to fulfill the role. Still, given Branagh's comments about the authority of Elba's voice, I can see why he chose Elba, rather than relying on ethnic look alikes. He wanted somebody you would believe would instill obedience when he denies you access to the Bifrost.

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Old 05-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #75
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Default Re: Why is there still such a fuss over Idris Elba as Heimdall?

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Vartha refers to me as a Kirby Purist. What can I say?




lol yeah but I recall a few things from the Kirby Thor days where they had those pages on Asgard the city, and Black people being in those shots, Franklin.
I was quite happy with Elba's Heimdall. Tho I wish Tadanobu Asano had at least a Stash on his lip.

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