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Old 07-20-2011, 01:06 PM   #76
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Originally Posted by Spidey-Bat View Post
Funny how I say the Bran chapters are boring and the very next one is a complete 180 It's when Jojen tells him he's had the dream of the 3-eyed crow, too

I also got to one of the few, good Catelyn chapters When she tries to make Stannis and Renly not fight.
Wait till the next (or two can't remember) Catelyn chapter ... big WTH just happened moment.

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:30 PM   #77
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

I hate Catelyn so much.

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Wait till the next (or two can't remember) Catelyn chapter ... big WTH just happened moment.
I think I might know what that is.

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Originally Posted by El Bastardo View Post
I hate Catelyn so much.
I don't like her either. Bran and Rickon need her more than Rob. She didn't want Bran to go to King's Landing because he's her sweet little boy but now doesn't care enough to return to him.


Also, Tyrion is the best fictional character ever created. The chapter where he told Varys, Baelish, and Pycelle different plans went over my head, didn't notice it even when Cersei confronted him about one of them. Then his arrest of Pycelle and beatdown on Lancel were awesome


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Old 07-20-2011, 01:54 PM   #79
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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I think I might know what that is.
Just curious as to what you think it is?

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:57 PM   #80
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Just curious as to what you think it is?
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Renly will die in a mysterious way

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:58 PM   #81
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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I hate Catelyn so much.
You know I think the show Catelyn will be a much more simpathetic character because you can't see her inner thoughts, but she does spend a lot of time feeling sorry for herself.

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Old 07-20-2011, 02:12 PM   #82
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Renly will die in a mysterious way

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Old 07-20-2011, 05:23 PM   #83
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

Has anyone finished ADWD yet? I was reading reviews on Amazon, lot of 3/5 that complained it doesn't really progress the overall story much.

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Old 07-20-2011, 11:00 PM   #84
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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You know I think the show Catelyn will be a much more simpathetic character because you can't see her inner thoughts, but she does spend a lot of time feeling sorry for herself.
No, I still hate her.

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Has anyone finished ADWD yet? I was reading reviews on Amazon, lot of 3/5 that complained it doesn't really progress the overall story much.
People will continue the *****-fest started with A Feast for Crows. Welcome to your beginning exposure of the GRRM fanbase, sad to say.

It depends on what they mean by that comment, but I'll go out on the dangerously-thin limb here and state that a lot of people just aren't that freaking intelligent to coherently articulate their thoughts.

ADwD is in a weird position - it has to catch-up all the characters who weren't in AFfC, cover that amount of time, and then it surpasses that point of time and continues to push the story forward. Considering it surpasses AFfC right around page 500 or just before, it's about half-and-half. As such, there's no truth to any criticism that it doesn't progress overall story. In fact, it does, and in all areas of his world, not just in Westeros.

Another complaint I've seen thrown around by numerous people is there's no reason the book should have taken this long because the middle third of it sucks, is incredibly boring, and should have been removed by any capable editorial team. I mean, that type of comment is astounding. Slow build-up and character journey is so very different from boring.

That complaint has then jumped in logic to "Oh, well, see, this story has grown too big for GRRM to handle and so now it's doomed." And that's, well, yeah. (Sadly, these comments belong to more than just a minute percentage of the fanbase.)

tl;dr version: Having just finished the book about fifteen minutes ago, I can state the book is ****ing fantastic and to boot I enjoyed it whole-heartedly. But then, I'm not some stupid ***hole nincompoop. It is a wonderful read and a wonderful addition to the series, and well worth the wait.

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Old 07-20-2011, 11:11 PM   #85
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

I'm buying it and reading it regardless of the reviews. I do have a couple questions about it, just say yes or no.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Do we find out who Jon's parents are? Or at least more hints?

Is Jorah Mormont in it or mentioned?

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Old 07-21-2011, 08:36 AM   #86
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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I'm buying it and reading it regardless of the reviews. I do have a couple questions about it, just say yes or no.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Do we find out who Jon's parents are? Or at least more hints?

Is Jorah Mormont in it or mentioned?
I haven't finished it yet but I'll tell you what I know.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1) more hints, at least as far as I've gotten. 2) Yes.

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Old 07-21-2011, 08:53 AM   #87
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Originally Posted by Spidey-Bat View Post
I'm buying it and reading it regardless of the reviews. I do have a couple questions about it, just say yes or no.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Do we find out who Jon's parents are? Or at least more hints?

Is Jorah Mormont in it or mentioned?
Also I think there is a lot of ADD going on with the 'fans' of this series. They want resolutions faster than GRRM is giving them. Plus a lot of people haven't finished the book yet. I would look at the professional critics more than the duffues at Amazon.

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Old 07-21-2011, 11:52 AM   #88
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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I haven't finished it yet but I'll tell you what I know.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1) more hints, at least as far as I've gotten. 2) Yes.
Good, I like more hints and Jorah.

By the way, the Catelyn chapter with the "WTF?" moment was the one after she tries to make Renly and Stannis not fight. I was still confused what happened even when I kind of knew.

I also finally found a Sansa chapter that wasn't boring, only because Tyrion was in it. He makes every chapter better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buford The Sly View Post
Also I think there is a lot of ADD going on with the 'fans' of this series. They want resolutions faster than GRRM is giving them. Plus a lot of people haven't finished the book yet. I would look at the professional critics more than the duffues at Amazon.
I figured as much. Amazon sometimes has a lot of **** reviews that should be deleted. The set of the first 4 books in paperback has a bunch of 1 star reviews just because it's more expensive than the Kindle version.

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Old 07-21-2011, 01:34 PM   #89
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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By the way, the Catelyn chapter with the "WTF?" moment was the one after she tries to make Renly and Stannis not fight. I was still confused what happened even when I kind of knew.
Don't worry it's expounded upon. I'm very curious how people will react to that moment in the show.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:16 PM   #90
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey-Bat View Post
I'm buying it and reading it regardless of the reviews. I do have a couple questions about it, just say yes or no.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Do we find out who Jon's parents are? Or at least more hints?

Is Jorah Mormont in it or mentioned?
Sorry for the delay, ser.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. No. I think I know what Buford was referencing, but I won't say more right now unless you ask. Regardless, my answer is no. As for #2, yes.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:20 PM   #91
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Also I think there is a lot of ADD going on with the 'fans' of this series. They want resolutions faster than GRRM is giving them. Plus a lot of people haven't finished the book yet. I would look at the professional critics more than the duffues at Amazon.
What gets me is the people who have somehow managed to believe that the man isn't capable of finishing the series. This isn't the complaint that he's going to die, it's a complaint that AFfC and ADwD are somehow so bad that clearly he has no idea what is going on anymore and has no handle on the story.

I'm part of a long-standing ASoIaF discussion group on Facebook, and here's one of the latest genius comments (supported by other people, even) from one person: "I think the 'why' is that the story has gotten away from him, and this is an author whose reach extends far beyond his grasp. It happens all the time, to writers, politicians, scientists - I think the story is too big for him and he's not up to the task of finishing it."

The evidence, you may ask? She finds several chapters to be boring. Yes, subjective reasoning and jumping of logic at their finest.

It ****ing angers me.

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Old 07-21-2011, 10:30 PM   #92
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

I'm going to start throwing up some stuff I've been thinking about, having finished A Dance with Dragons. There will be spoilers and speculation. Beware, and read at your own dangers.

One
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Jon is Azor Ahai is The Prince Who Was Promised. I've figured this since seeing the prophecy and deciding that Jon is most likely the son of Rhaeger Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. I just didn't know how the prophecy applied, but I do now.

First piece: Melisandre's chapter. Searching the flames for Stannis and praying to R'hllor for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, as she calls him, she keeps seeing visions of Jon. ("Snow.") At first I thought this might be GRRM ****ing with me, but then the last Jon chapter comes.

The prophecy of Azor Ahai in a nutshell: When the bleeding star is in the sky, Azor Ahai will be reborn amidsts smoke and salt, and wake dragons from the stone.

The final Jon chapter ends with him getting Julius Caesar'd. Wun Wun is waving the bleeding body of Ser Patrek in the air - whose heraldry is a five-pointed star. Bleeding star. As Bowen Marsh stabs him, Marsh is crying. Salt. And when he pulls the blade out of his stomach, the wound is described as smoking. Smoke. Assuming he dies and Melisandre gives him the kiss of life, we have actual rebirth as well.

Though on that note, the Varamyr prologue states definitively that when a warg dies his spirit will tear free and enter his companion animal. Really, I mostly applied the Varamyr prologue to Bran's chapters, but that GRRM points out that Jon has warged more and more cannot be happenstance. Heh, it also makes Ghost that much more a fitting name.

Bran's dream/vision "prophecy" in A Game of Thrones, which will show up again below, mentions Jon's skin growing pale and hard as warmth leaves him. This could just show his death, or it could be a clue that his rebirth will be more like Cat's, which I certainly hope will not be the case.


Two, semi-related
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Jon Snow's mother is not the woman from The Sisters mentioned in Davos's first chapter. The chronology does not match.


Three
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Young Griff really is Aegon, but Aegon is not The Prince Who Was Promised, and when Aemon stated he and Rhaegar were incorrect about the prophecy (I think) in A Feast for Crows it was truth. He is, however, Varys's Plan A, possibly without Illyrio's initial knowledge, and Viserys was very much Plan B. Dany has since been Plan C, primarily on the part of Illyrio, though Varys obviously had a hand in getting Tyrion and likely Barristan eastward bound.

Regardless, Varys's "return" is to back Aegon's play.


Four
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Ser Robert Strong's true identity of Gregor Clegane is pretty obvious, and I've been a fan of the possibility of Frankengregor/Gregorstein/Qyburnstein's Monster since reading about how Qyburn was "treating" him. Considering Cersei now has her own unstoppable monster to do things with, this should return to an early dream/vision "prophecy" Bran has in A Game with Thrones, in which a giant in stone armor (Gregor) is seen looming over a shadow with the face of a hound (Sandor, obviously) and a shadow in golden armor (Jaime, obviously). I suspect this means Gregor will only be brought down by the combined ability of Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane, possibly bringing an end to all three.

The only problem is the passage is linked to events of A Game of Thrones, notably Lady's death. It does give a very early clue to Gregor's deathly situation, though. "...when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood," so there is credence to the passage transcending the first book.


Five
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Stannis has not been defeated come the end of the book, and Ramsay Bolton is making a ploy of it for reasons I'm unsure of. More confusion sets in as to why it's from Ramsay and not Roose, though that doesn't mean Roose doesn't know about the letter.

I also want to know how they know Mance is Mance. I didn't think anyone south of the Wall would know what the King-Beyond-the-Wall looked like, unless they tortured it out of him. Why believe him, though?

The main reason I believe the letter is false is because, if they had defeated Stannis, Ramsay wouldn't need his Reek back. Theon would have been recaptured, or at the least his body would be found. I can't see Stannis sending Theon, Jeyne Pool, Asha, or any of the other Ironborn away. He'd want to keep them close, and even if he did try to send them off, I can't see Asha willing to leave a battle with the guy who's responsible for the condition Theon is now in.

Also, Crowfood Umber delivered Theon and Jeyne Pool to the Ironborn, which should be a very obvious clue that he's not really for the Boltons. Nor are the Manderly forces, obviously. When battle does break out, they'll likely be against the Boltons, and it should go well for Stannis.


I think that's it for now. Darnit, people, finish the book and talk to me!

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Old 07-21-2011, 10:35 PM   #93
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

It's so hard to not read those. I clicked the first 2 open but held my hand in front of the screen.

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Sorry for the delay, ser.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. No. I think I know what Buford was referencing, but I won't say more right now unless you ask. Regardless, my answer is no. As for #2, yes.
You might as well tell me since it will be several months before I get to reading it. Especially if it supports the popular theory.

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Old 07-21-2011, 10:57 PM   #94
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

Just read my #2, then.

Well, here, I'll explain it:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Davos is meeting with the lord of one of the Sisters in his first POV chapter. The lord tells him that when Ned Stark was on his way back north to call his banners at Winterfell - so this would be after Rickard and Brandon have been killed by Aerys, at the start of Robert's Rebellion - he boffed some random chick on the island who wound up having his bastard.

Not only does the chronology not match quite right, but Ned would have had to sail back to the island to pick him up, which does not work into any stories about Ned returning to Winterfell with Jon that we've read. Jon is also supposed to have come up from the south.

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Old 07-22-2011, 12:25 AM   #95
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

So a red herring

I had a thought earlier. Since AFFC and ADWD take place at the same time, could I read ADWD before AFFC or would I miss out on some things?

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Old 07-22-2011, 12:59 AM   #96
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

Oh man, I've had the new book since release and not had a moment to read it. Work stuff.

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Old 07-22-2011, 03:14 AM   #97
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Those look hilarious.

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Old 07-22-2011, 08:38 AM   #98
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So a red herring

I had a thought earlier. Since AFFC and ADWD take place at the same time, could I read ADWD before AFFC or would I miss out on some things?
You could read ADwD up to about page 500, or just shy of that. I know page 500 is a POV chapter of a character from AFfC, but I don't remember exactly the events of the chapter right before that.

But then you'd have to make sure to put down ADwD and pick up AFfC, finish that, then go back to ADwD. Seems like it'd be more work than it's worth, and there is the fact that since AFfC came out first, there are some clues to pick up for the early half of ADwD, even though the books run concurrent. For instance, some of the POVs in ADwD are introduced by mention in AFfC.

I'd say to just read them in their order. A Feast for Crows is an excellent book, and a pretty quick read.

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Old 07-22-2011, 08:39 AM   #99
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Those look hilarious.
What look hilarious?

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Old 07-22-2011, 09:03 AM   #100
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

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Just read my #2, then.

Well, here, I'll explain it:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Davos is meeting with the lord of one of the Sisters in his first POV chapter. The lord tells him that when Ned Stark was on his way back north to call his banners at Winterfell - so this would be after Rickard and Brandon have been killed by Aerys, at the start of Robert's Rebellion - he boffed some random chick on the island who wound up having his bastard.

Not only does the chronology not match quite right, but Ned would have had to sail back to the island to pick him up, which does not work into any stories about Ned returning to Winterfell with Jon that we've read. Jon is also supposed to have come up from the south.
I've gotten past that point and my speculation is Red Herring. It just doesn't make sense. Unless Ned's got a bastard that's not Jon Snow.

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