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Old 03-29-2013, 05:27 PM   #426
MessiahDecoy123
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

North Korea's nukes prevent any pre-emptive attacks.

Saddam and Gadhafi would still be in power today if they had nukes.

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Old 03-29-2013, 08:12 PM   #427
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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NKorea orders rocket prep after US B-2 drill

http://news.yahoo.com/nkorea-orders-...000429063.html
I'd laugh if that went off before it left the ground.

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Old 03-29-2013, 08:27 PM   #428
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

And it very well could.....but I have a feeling they have footage of different rocket launches and they just keep throwing those out to the press.....

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Old 03-29-2013, 09:06 PM   #429
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
North Korea's nukes prevent any pre-emptive attacks.

Saddam and Gadhafi would still be in power today if they had nukes.
The former probably, the latter, I dunno. It is possible to be taken down by a popular uprising even if you have nukes.

Scary part is that Gaddafi might have nuked his own people.

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Old 03-29-2013, 09:28 PM   #430
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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Scary part is that Gaddafi might have nuked his own people.
Based on what past actions from Gaddafi?

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Old 03-29-2013, 09:36 PM   #431
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Awww, how cute, Kim-Jon Un is playing general. Adorable.

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Old 03-29-2013, 09:38 PM   #432
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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Based on what past actions from Gaddafi?
His air force bombing civilians in the streets?

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Old 03-29-2013, 10:07 PM   #433
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His air force bombing civilians in the streets?
Were they trying to overthrow him cause I'm pretty sure our government leaders are capable of the same thing if American rebels tried to take control of the government.

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Old 03-29-2013, 10:15 PM   #434
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

They were civilians, many weren't even rebels. It's why the international community backed the intervention.

Deliberately strafing civilians has been taboo since World War II. Hence why those pilots defected. That's a war crime.

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Old 03-29-2013, 10:30 PM   #435
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Since WW2, huh?

During Vietnam we bombed and killed 50,000 civilians.

How many did Gadaffi kill to deserve to be ousted and murdered? Any more than Nixon or LBJ?

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Old 03-29-2013, 10:32 PM   #436
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

Are you deliberately missing the point?

There's a difference between collateral damage, and intentionally shooting civilians in the street. There were isolated instances where American soldiers fired on civilians, but they were rare, and never official policy.

And it's Vietnam. Not America.

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Old 03-29-2013, 10:37 PM   #437
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Are you deliberately missing the point?

There's a difference between collateral damage, and intentionally shooting civilians in the street. There were isolated instances where American soldiers fired on civilians, but they were rare, and never official policy.

And it's Vietnam. Not America.
Don't you know him by now? He is anti American government....you will not get discussion or debate from him...don't waste your time.

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Old 03-30-2013, 06:08 AM   #438
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Don't you know him by now? He is anti American government....you will not get discussion or debate from him...don't waste your time.
Wait a minute.

Why would someone who is anti-government be any less reasonable than someone who is pro-government?

BTW - I'm not anti-government, I'm anti-government abuse and quite frankly I find the ”government can do no wrong” type of people a greater danger to freedom and justice than the ”anti-government” people.

Yes there are rogue individuals or anti-government terrorist who have killed thousands but over-empowered governments have killed millions.

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Old 03-30-2013, 06:21 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Are you deliberately missing the point?

There's a difference between collateral damage, and intentionally shooting civilians in the street. There were isolated instances where American soldiers fired on civilians, but they were rare, and never official policy.

And it's Vietnam. Not America.
So you truly believe that a government willing to kill Asian women and children by the tens of thousands because they were ”in the way” overseas wouldn't attack Americans who were trying to overthrow the government?

Just because they haven't had to do so to Americans on a grand scale doesn't mean they are morally above doing it.

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Old 03-30-2013, 06:31 AM   #440
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

People need to see the Fog of War.

At least check out the trailer on YouTube.

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Old 03-30-2013, 06:43 AM   #441
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
So you truly believe that a government willing to kill Asian women and children by the tens of thousands because they were ”in the way” overseas wouldn't attack Americans who were trying to overthrow the government?

Just because they haven't had to do so to Americans on a grand scale doesn't mean they are morally above doing it.
Well at that point, those Americans become enemy combatants and would be considered traitors by the letter of the law. I mean, you can try glorifying it all you want but yes, people trying to overthrow the government for whatever reason would most likely be annihilated.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:11 AM   #442
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Default Re: The North Korean Situation II

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People need to see the Fog of War.

At least check out the trailer on YouTube.
I saw 'Fog of War' too (a great documentay). That doesn't make you knowledgable and that still doesn't clarify your muddled points. Sorry, but you're no Noam Chomsky.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:11 AM   #443
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Well at that point, those Americans become enemy combatants and would be considered traitors by the letter of the law. I mean, you can try glorifying it all you want but yes, people trying to overthrow the government for whatever reason would most likely be annihilated.
I don't want the government overthrown.

But my point is that the civilians allegedly air bombed by Ghaddafi were considered anti-government threats and our government would go to similar extremes to stop domestic insurgency.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:16 AM   #444
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I don't want the government overthrown.

But my point is that the civilians allegedly air bombed by Ghaddafi were considered anti-government threats and our government would go to similar extremes to stop domestic insurgency.
Prove it.

Oh wait, you can't. Because the American government has never done that.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:17 AM   #445
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I saw 'Fog of War' too (a great documentay). That doesn't make you knowledgable and that still doesn't clarify your muddled points. Sorry, but you're no Noam Chomsky.
Few people are Noam Chomsky but if more people expressed similar views despite the their lower status the world would be better place.

and I'm not sure why I'm being attacked personally.

Even if you consider my points ”muddled” I haven't disrespected anyone and have expressed my points in a relatively civil manner.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:26 AM   #446
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Prove it.

Oh wait, you can't. Because the American government has never done that.
They never had too unless you count the civil war.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't do it.

and lets not forget, this entire debate was started because someone said Gaddafi would nuke his own country. All because he allegedly did an airstrike on his own people.

1) where's the source
2) and assuming it did happen is that ”proof” he would've nuked an entire Libyan city?

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Old 03-30-2013, 08:03 AM   #447
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So you truly believe that a government willing to kill Asian women and children by the tens of thousands because they were ”in the way” overseas wouldn't attack Americans who were trying to overthrow the government?

Just because they haven't had to do so to Americans on a grand scale doesn't mean they are morally above doing it.
They certainly are not stupid enough to do it. If the American government decided to bomb it's own people, the repercussions would be devastating. We would suddenly find ourselves the subject of international sanctions, thus shutting down the international commerce that we rely so heavily upon. Then, think about the widespread panic it would cause. Put those together and it would bring our economy to a screeching halt and would end up costing this country millions, if not billions.

The unfortunate reason we bombed that many Vietnamese was because they were not needed by our government. The government needs the American people.

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Old 03-30-2013, 08:16 AM   #448
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They certainly are not stupid enough to do it. If the American government decided to bomb it's own people, the repercussions would be devastating. We would suddenly find ourselves the subject of international sanctions, thus shutting down the international commerce that we rely so heavily upon. Then, think about the widespread panic it would cause. Put those together and it would bring our economy to a screeching halt and would end up costing this country millions, if not billions.

The unfortunate reason we bombed that many Vietnamese was because they were not needed by our government. The government needs the American people.
I don't know about that.

All they have to do is label a group as a terrorist organization or even radical insurgents and the much of the public will support that groups eradication blindly.

History has proven this time and time again.

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Old 03-30-2013, 09:42 AM   #449
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I don't know about that.

All they have to do is label a group as a terrorist organization or even radical insurgents and the much of the public will support that groups eradication blindly.

History has proven this time and time again.
You were talking about bombing 30,000 civilians. They would have a really hard time trying to justify bombing a whole town.

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Old 03-30-2013, 10:02 AM   #450
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You were talking about bombing 30,000 civilians. They would have a really hard time trying to justify bombing a whole town.
How many Libyan civilians did Gaddafi kill with bombing?

Cause that's the frame of reference.

Supposedly he killed enough innocent civillains that it warranted a coup and assasination.

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