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Old 05-14-2011, 01:50 PM   #51
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

Like others have said. This feels more like an X-men film than any of the other films to date.

I'm not really bothered by the character selection for the film...I'm just glad we have a competent and capable director handling this project...and Fox seems to have given him a great deal of flexibility. I'm so excited for June 3rd!!!!

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Old 05-14-2011, 02:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

Personally, I'm fine with the tweaked origins. The last thing I want is for FOX to get it 100% right. THAT'S for Marvel to do whenever they manage to get the rights back.

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Old 05-14-2011, 02:11 PM   #53
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

i think its great to present us a selection of unknown but interesting characters, and not the same Scott, Jean....theres a lot of those in the mutant galore.. Its refreshing and we dont get bored.

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Old 05-14-2011, 03:24 PM   #54
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

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Personally, I'm fine with the tweaked origins. The last thing I want is for FOX to get it 100% right. THAT'S for Marvel to do whenever they manage to get the rights back.
I agree to an extent, but I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment with regards to a Marvel made X-Men movie. Marvel's not going to get it 100% right. There are too many characters, too many interpretations, and too much history. Marvel's going to have to make compromises, just like Fox. I'll just be happy if they do a good, or better, job.

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Old 05-14-2011, 03:37 PM   #55
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

No one will ever get it 100% right but I think Marvel will do a better job simply because the X-Men films were made before comic book films could really go all out with their comic book style and it was when comic films were made on a one film basis instead of with plans for a trilogy or series underway (which is what helped lead to the X3 fiasco and the series moving towards prequels afterwords).

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Old 05-14-2011, 03:55 PM   #56
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

Very true. The genre has proven itself more capable of pushing things further, while still being taken seriously, than it did 11 years ago.


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Old 05-14-2011, 04:54 PM   #57
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It just baffles me that people can gripe and complain that it doesn't follow continuity or have the feel it should or use the right characters or this or that.

There's FIFTY YEARS of "continuity" to follow, for a constantly rotating ensemble cast of at least 30 recognizable characters. (Besides, how many times WITHIN the comics have we heard "oh it's Jean" followed by "it wasn't really Jean," or "Magneto's insane and killed," to "oh well it wasn't really Magneto." etc) Liberties have to be taken, and I for one would RATHER see a 'new and unique' take on the origins rather than what I already know from the comics.
I've come across this argument frequently, and quite frankly, I find it completely absurd. This is an origin piece- it does not cover every minuscule retcon. To illustrate: did they have to cover Wolverine's entire history in X-Men Origins: Wolverine? No, because it's an origin story. The same concept applies in this case. There is not, as you say, "fifty years of continuity to follow". There is only one year to follow- 1963. Oh, and there were 5 members of the original X-Men, not 30 as you say.

"(Besides, how many times WITHIN the comics have we heard "oh it's Jean" followed by "it wasn't really Jean," or "Magneto's insane and killed," to "oh well it wasn't really Magneto. etc) [sic]"

How many times have we heard it in 1963?

"And I for one would RATHER see a 'new and unique' take on the origins rather than what I already know from the comics."

Really? So when there's, as an example, a Civil War reenactment (or something similar), do you say, "Eh, I already know about this... I want something 'new and unique.'"?

I'm quite interested in hearing your rebuttal.


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Old 05-14-2011, 06:40 PM   #58
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"And I for one would RATHER see a 'new and unique' take on the origins rather than what I already know from the comics."

Really? So when there's, as an example, a Civil War reenactment (or something similar), do you say, "Eh, I already know about this... I want something 'new and unique.'"?

I'm quite interested in hearing your rebuttal.
Ooo--that's an interesting question! Well, when it's a fictional movie, I actually don't mind liberties be taken. The movie "Glory", for example (set during the civil war, to continue with your example), wasn't completely true to it's historical 'cannon'. It had some historical figures in it, but certainly took liberties.

If I want an absolutely true representation of what happened, I'll watch a documentary.

I think that may be the difference here. Some X-men fans want the equivalent of documentaries based on the comics. Others want a fictional movie that has the broad strokes right, but takes some liberties in telling the story. The problem is that I think the broad movie audience would be more interested in the latter (fiction) than the former (documentary), as evidenced by how many people watch documentaries vs fictional movies.

(and yes, I know, I know comics are already fiction, but it's an interesting question)

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Old 05-14-2011, 07:08 PM   #59
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I've come across this argument frequently, and quite frankly, I find it completely absurd. This is an origin piece- it does not cover every minuscule retcon. To illustrate: did they have to cover Wolverine's entire history in X-Men Origins: Wolverine? No, because it's an origin story. The same concept applies in this case. There is not, as you say, "fifty years of continuity to follow". There is only one year to follow- 1963. Oh, and there were 5 members of the original X-Men, not 30 as you say.

"(Besides, how many times WITHIN the comics have we heard "oh it's Jean" followed by "it wasn't really Jean," or "Magneto's insane and killed," to "oh well it wasn't really Magneto." etc) (sic)"

How many times have we heard it in 1963?

"And I for one would RATHER see a 'new and unique' take on the origins rather than what I already know from the comics."

Really? So when there's, as an example, a Civil War reenactment (or something similar), do you say, "Eh, I already know about this... I want something 'new and unique.'"?

I'm quite interested in hearing your rebuttal.
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t necessarily agree with all of it, as these are movies and not a monthly comic book that has the privilege of time to develop its characters and storylines. You say an origin movie only needs 1963 to be its guide, and need not be concerned with additional continuity and retcons, and yet you use X-Men Origins: Wolverine as an example. While X-Men Origins doesn‘t cover Wolverine‘s entire history, it condenses years worth of material into one movie specific storyline, including retcons such as bone claws, rather than simply focus on those ideas present when the character was first introduced in the 1970s.

Also, I’m not entirely convinced a historical event, like the Civil War, is necessarily comparable to a fantasy world whose origins can be completely altered or further expounded upon at the whim of a writer on a monthly basis. Moreover, I think it could be argued that we do entertain different and unique interpretations of historical events, especially in cinema. While we may not say "I already know about this... I want something new and unique," we certainly don’t expect every movie revolving around World War II, for instance, to include the same characters, reenacting the same storyline every time. Schindler’s List isn’t Saving Private Ryan, which isn’t Pearl Harbor, which isn’t Letters from Iwo Jima, which isn’t something like Inglorious Basterds. Each offers its own perspective, with its own characters and biases, and all take artistic license.


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Old 05-15-2011, 07:44 AM   #60
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Also, Iím not entirely convinced a historical event, like the Civil War, is necessarily comparable to a fantasy world whose origins can be completely altered or further expounded upon at the whim of a writer on a monthly basis. Moreover, I think it could be argued that we do entertain different and unique interpretations of historical events, especially in cinema. While we may not say "I already know about this... I want something new and unique," we certainly donít expect every movie revolving around World War II, for instance, to include the same characters, reenacting the same storyline every time. Schindlerís List isnít Saving Private Ryan, which isnít Pearl Harbor, which isnít Letters from Iwo Jima, which isnít something like Inglorious Basterds. Each offers its own perspective, with its own characters and biases, and all take artistic license.
That's interesting because I dont recall any missles being fired during the real Cuban Missile Crisis. For some strange reason they chose a real and specific event, modified it, then dropped it in the Xmen filmverse and I'm wondering whether it was really neccessary for First Class.

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:08 AM   #61
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

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That's interesting because I dont recall any missles being fired during the real Cuban Missile Crisis. For some strange reason they chose a real and specific event, modified it, then dropped it in the Xmen filmverse and I'm wondering whether it was really neccessary for First Class.
I think that real event gives the film more dramatic weight (an expansion of the idea that led to the Auschwitz scene at the start of X1) which gives a greater audience connection, potentially. Plus it was an event around at the time the first X-Men comic was published. And the first issue does see the firing of missiles (though Magneto is the instigator).

Not essential but helpful to the ideas behind the X-Men.

Civil rights unrest and the Stonewall riots could be incorporated in a future story. So could the space race and the feminism and hippy-culture sexual freedoms of the 70s. All provide a good backdrop for the mutant struggle...

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:13 AM   #62
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People are pissed because [insert your favorite character] isn't in the film.
The story doesn't really follow continuity of the comic books.
So they have their minds made up that it isn't an x men film.
Some people need an excuse to hold onto their early position that this movie would suck, lol.
I think that sums up any grievances people have with the film. After four previous films, the last two of which seemed to cause the most fan upset, the hardcore fanbase is naturally wary and fed-up.

A lot of the more rage-driven fanboys wanted a reboot or for Marvel to get back the rights, so the film faces that sort of reaction before it is even released.

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:22 AM   #63
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The title needs a change. X-Men: Parallel Universe. For maximum enjoyment, I think I'll just treat it as a "What If?" issue committed to the screen and try not to pretend that it's the X-Men.
These films have always been a parallel universe. I've always seen them as an interpretation of how the X-Men would be if in a real-world live-action setting rather than in the fantastical pages of the comics.

The film doesn't feel like an X-Men comic, but none of them have. Same argument could be applied to most comic book adaptations.

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:29 AM   #64
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

I love all the hate the original film got...
black leather, magneto and his pervy tiny helmet and old age.

then we get colourfull suits and a real magneto helmet and all of a sudden it's even less Xmen than the previous films?

I have a soft spot in my heart for the manipulation of fanboys.
Man if only this was the third film, the hype would have been off the charts.

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:58 AM   #65
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

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No one will ever get it 100% right.

This is both true and not. I was mostly just refering to getting the original line up correct which they can get 100% right. The film over-all beyond that however? Yeah, 100% correct isn't very likely. But if the do it like Iron Man 1 and nail 85-90% as well as getting the spirit correct then I'd be happy with that. Not every idea they had in the original comics was the best or most ideal one. So when they use that 10-15% change to improve upon source material...I don't have a big problem with it.

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Old 05-15-2011, 10:02 AM   #66
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

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I love all the hate the original film got...
black leather, magneto and his pervy tiny helmet and old age.

then we get colourfull suits and a real magneto helmet and all of a sudden it's even less Xmen than the previous films?

I have a soft spot in my heart for the manipulation of fanboys.
Man if only this was the third film, the hype would have been off the charts.
Fanboys aren't monolithic. Those who liked how Singer interpreted the original costumes, etc. are likely the ones who are saying that this doesn't feel like the X-men. The fanboys who always complained about the suits & other changes in the earlier X-films are likely the ones who are really digging the way this film is going.

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Old 05-15-2011, 10:19 AM   #67
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Fanboys aren't monolithic. Those who liked how Singer interpreted the original costumes, etc. are likely the ones who are saying that this doesn't feel like the X-men. The fanboys who always complained about the suits & other changes in the earlier X-films are likely the ones who are really digging the way this film is going.
I agree to a point, but to another point, I think alot of people can't be convinced until they are convinced.

Sure you can't group even together, there is the obvious difference in opinion, but look at the initial response to the raimi spidey costume before and after the fact, same with the puffy suit bats. And now with the new spidey look.

before and after there is a huge difference, and no one mentions how overworked the bat suits are anymore. Singer turned everyone into a lover of his interpretation and now (to a large) degree Vaughn has to deal with that. I still remember when the first photo of big helmet fassbender was released.
And after all this, no one will ever speak of how big the helmet is, nor will they talk of how stupid spidey looks with sneakers on his suit.

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Old 05-15-2011, 10:50 AM   #68
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

More live action iterations of costumes means more to compare with each other. And you can never truly compare them until you've seen them in full context of their films. Then comparison becomes truly valid.

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Old 05-15-2011, 12:25 PM   #69
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That's interesting because I dont recall any missles being fired during the real Cuban Missile Crisis. For some strange reason they chose a real and specific event, modified it, then dropped it in the Xmen filmverse and I'm wondering whether it was really neccessary for First Class.
That's not really relevant to what I was talking about, but, if it's another thing for you to nitpick on your quest to dislike the movie, go for it.

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Old 05-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #70
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I think that sums up any grievances people have with the film. After four previous films, the last two of which seemed to cause the most fan upset, the hardcore fanbase is naturally wary and fed-up.

A lot of the more rage-driven fanboys wanted a reboot or for Marvel to get back the rights, so the film faces that sort of reaction before it is even released.

Exactly. I read through all of the comments on the main page and on another site (which shall remain nameless). There is a clear pattern of the usual suspects who post the same comments every time a new article, clip or photos are posted. But I have to say in the past week those numbers are dwindling and there are a fair number of converts who actually have an open mind about the film. However, the ones who truly don't want to give this film a chance get more and more vocal about their displeasure. I am sure there are some who legitimately find the trailers unappealing but I have no doubt there are some who don't even bother to read the articles or look at the clips before they comment negatively. It's just an automatic response.

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Old 05-15-2011, 03:04 PM   #71
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Default Re: "This movie does not feel X-Men"

to me the x-men oir any comic book movie is more then "they got the coustume right" its about the character. I can care less if they got a helmet right if the character seems wrong. Hell Ghost Rider transferred the look perfectly and the film still sucked.

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Old 05-15-2011, 05:53 PM   #72
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to me the x-men oir any comic book movie is more then "they got the coustume right" its about the character. I can care less if they got a helmet right if the character seems wrong. Hell Ghost Rider transferred the look perfectly and the film still sucked.
Good point, the characters themselves are probably more important than the costumes, what's the point in Emma Frost if she doesn't act like Emma Frost, what's the point in Beast if he's not Beast? So far the film looks to have the characters right which is fantastic.

I kinda like the blue and yellow anyways...

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Old 05-15-2011, 05:59 PM   #73
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Well it's just, it's always going to be hard to please everyone. Three people are always going to have three different opinions. I personally know I would be enjoying this better if the characters of Banshee and Moira had their natural accents, but my hype for the film can let that pass for now. I'm still really excited to see this adaptation.

And that's it, too, this is an adaptation from the comics as done by Matthew Vaughn.. No matter who is hired to adapt it, the finished product is always going to be that directors personal interpretation of what he got out of reading the comics.

Is there necessarily a right or wrong way to get an interpretation..? Again, opinions on that will differ. He's not doing the Frank Miller sin city, shot for shot adaptation of the comics, he's taking what he likes most about all the various comics he's read and mashing them into a story that, for my take, looks really interesting right now!

But regardless, this to me, in my opinion, feels more like an X-men film than anything I've seen yet by far.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:02 PM   #74
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xD Ah cheers for quoting me! Lol.

And it's true what others said... I have always and will always think of the x-men films as being in a universe of their own. When they go to adapt from the comics, they have A LOT of material to adapt from, and I mean, look at the comics themselves. So many artists and writers had so many different ideas, that all of them just simply wouldn't fit in the same story...

So hows it result? Alternate universes.

Now we have Earth-616, Earth-1610: Ultimate, Earth-295: Age of Apocalypse, so on and so on and so on .... The films themselves to me have always just been another Earth-2000 whatever, Movie version kind of deal. That way the film makers can interpret how they choose to, and adapt as much or as less as they wish.

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Old 05-15-2011, 11:57 PM   #75
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Ive been reading differnt comments and stuff all over the place of people hating the movie and people defending it, some people saying Oh the director is allowed Creative Freedom or this Movie has to fit into the Continuity set up by the previous Xmen Films.

To me thats all BS. Yes the director is allowed some creative freedom but he should not be allowed the freedom to change whatever he wants about every character and there back story and there origins.

As for it having to fit into the previous films continuity thats not true. They could have made this a Fresh start or a Reboot, they could have disregarded the last movies especially since Xmen 3 and Wolverine were awful.

You cannot take something like this like the origin of the Xmen and just make it how you want, you cant write in your own characters or change the ones that are there just because you seemed to have messed up with either having it set so far in the past or having the other movies set in the present. They should have found a way around it, as i said a reboot would do the trick.

If you do that, if you change everything then you arnt making an xmen movie, you are making a movie that just happens to have some characters that slightly resemble the Xmen.

Yes i Know there are all kinds of alternate realities and universes in the marvel universe and this movie could easily be explained away as taking place in an alternate Reality but thats BS you know it and I know it.

of course im just basing all of this off of the trailers and what ive read of the story but it seems pretty solid this movie is going to suck.

They are butchering everything, they arnt even using the real First class they are wedging in the more popular already established
favorite characters who just happened to be associated with the xmen just so they can force it to fit into there misshaped previous films.

From what ive seen they are creating completely new origins and histories for alot of the characters they are forcing into this flick.

Ive seen other people saying oh you have to be a fanboy or a Cannon whore if you are against this movie because it clearly looks so awesome but thats BS.

Im cool with change, i wouldnt mind if they were changing some small details like maybe introducing some extra characters or
adding to the backstories and origins or something, that would be fine i get that some things dont translate as well to film or whatever.

Thats not whats happening though they arent adding new characters to the team, they arnt switching around minor details they are
basically taking the last 30 or 40 years of xmen continuity picking out the bits they need to call it an xmen movie and throwing
everthing else in the garbage.

They are completely cutting out half of the actual first class and just sticking in whoever they want, nevermind that most of them had nothing to do with the xmen at this time or ever, or the fact that some of the characters are completely the wrong age for this time period etc...

you cant just ignore 40 years of established history and characters.

It would be like if when they were making the harry potter movies they rewrote them and made voldermort the good guy and father of
Dumbledore. Then claimed to be making a harry potter movie, it doesnt work.

You cant take a story from another medium like comics or books turn it into a movie and not follow the storyline. You do that your not making the movie your claiming to.

Also the Comics history isnt that convoluted that they had to write there own versions. All the changes the comics made have been made long before this movie was made they should have followed the comics.

There hasnt been that many changes that the Core aspects of the Xmen Origins have changed that much, Its always been the Same Original Xmen and there Origins have never changed drastically, mostly added too.

This movie takes liberties, changing Origins and such but what they change it too never happened in any of the comics or i the ydid it was a minor story or an alternate universe the Core origin stories don't change that much.


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