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Old 09-05-2011, 08:43 AM   #951
fanboiii
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

Best smile doesn't necessarily mean more radiant or whatever quality is desired for WW. What's the criteria for judging the best? And it is subjective just like gymnastics is subjective.

Secondly, casting an actress for a role has doesn't necessarily have to do with the way they smile. Is Jaimie's smiling that off putting? Does WW need to have a smile worthy of high school smile competitions? Those are things haven't even been determined to count against Jaimie. An award winning smile is one of the most trivial details to look for in casting anyway.

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Old 09-05-2011, 09:18 AM   #952
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

How often does WW smile anyway?

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Old 09-05-2011, 09:24 AM   #953
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

^ I feel you, and there is a subjective element to it, but its just not completely or even extremely subjective. What else could best smile mean if not more radiant? More smile-y. Brighter, more infectious, it's all the same attribute.

And depending on the character, an award winning smile is crucial. The traditional - commercially and critically successful -Wonder Woman needs to have an endearing smile in order to exude compassion and jubilation, so it becomes a non-trivial factor. The modern warrior chick Wonder Woman needs no such thing, and so it's not a factor at all.

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Old 09-05-2011, 09:24 AM   #954
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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How often does WW smile anyway?

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Old 09-05-2011, 09:26 AM   #955
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

I mean in her own stories. She smirks once in a while or smiles when she's helping someone, but she's probably more serious than anything.

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Old 09-05-2011, 10:51 AM   #956
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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^ I feel you, and there is a subjective element to it, but its just not completely or even extremely subjective. What else could best smile mean if not more radiant? More smile-y. Brighter, more infectious, it's all the same attribute.
Best smile could be all sorts of things. That's what makes it subjective. They have to first define what radiant means to them. They could factor in all sorts of things that contribute to a smile. I doubt they're only looking at the shape of their mouth. Teeth, facial proportions, etc. could be criteria for judging. Therefore, it's not simply some notion of "radiant", but the qualities that amount to being radiant.

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And depending on the character, an award winning smile is crucial. The traditional - commercially and critically successful -Wonder Woman needs to have an endearing smile in order to exude compassion and jubilation, so it becomes a non-trivial factor. The modern warrior chick Wonder Woman needs no such thing, and so it's not a factor at all.
I don't agree with this opinion. An award-winning smile isn't crucial. She doesn't need to win over anyone with a smile. And, the movie WW could be both compassionate and a warrior. The only thing WW's smile has to be is honest and believable and that boils down to good acting. She smiles when she feels like it, and that's that. The beauty of her smile doesn't matter one bit as long as it conveys her emotion.

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Old 09-05-2011, 01:13 PM   #957
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

what good is a 5'11 frame if your built like a stick?

i'd take a athletically cut 5'7 over a stick thin 5'11 - 6ft girl

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Old 09-05-2011, 03:17 PM   #958
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

Ennio Morricone - now THAT would be a hell of a choice for a composer.
Can somebody talk him into making this?

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Old 09-05-2011, 04:31 PM   #959
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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It's anecdotal evidence that some people have better/more radiant smiles than others. You and others tried to portray it as something completely subjective, but if that were true, then certain people wouldn't be consistently chosen/complimented as having more radiant/beautiful smiles. Everyone would be chosen/complimented on their smile with relatively equal frequency, because everyone has a radiant smile to someone. And it can't be that obscure. Every high school does it every year. Virtually everyone in the western world has been directly exposed to it.

Some people may not: people who don't read their yearbooks, people who haven't graduated high school, but even so, the idea that all smiles are equally beloved and evaluated just doesn't ring true, and doesn't play out.
This is by far one of the most bizarre arguments against an actress I think I've ever read on this forum. Ever. Seriously.

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Old 09-05-2011, 05:09 PM   #960
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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This is by far one of the most bizarre arguments against an actress I think I've ever read on this forum. Ever. Seriously.
It's not really that bizarre actually. There's a whole science to it with micro expressions (which was the subject of that TV series "Lie To Me"). Also, in connection with this same thing, people in related studies are frequently asked to pick out which faces seem the most trustworthy, honest, approachable etc.

As for a person having a radiant smile, this can't simply be done with acting. The whole idea of a duchenne smile in micro expressions (which is considered a genuine smile where you're smiling with your eyes) is that it can't be faked. When someone is said to have a radiant smile and their whole face lights up, it is because all the muscles of the face, particularly the eyes, are consistent and reflect a genuine happiness. Someone who does this often gives the feeling of being someone easy going, warm and approachable. You can pretend to be genuinely happy and fake a smile, but certain facial muscles (eg your eyes or your mouth, or the way your cheekbones move upwards) won't be consistent with a genuine smile. While it might be almost imperceivable, there is a subtle difference, and strangely enough, people can discern a difference even if they can't fully put their finger on it.

How this applies to actors is that those who display that duchenne smile more frequently and genuinely reflect that happiness (which is in some ways a reflection of their inner state of mind) and consequently a sense of peace will give off a more approachable, trustworthy feel without even trying. Others can act at it, but it will not seem as if it is something inherent to them.

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Old 09-05-2011, 05:20 PM   #961
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

This thread has officially jumped the shark. I'm done.

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Old 09-05-2011, 07:19 PM   #962
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

Maybe Dark Raven and DrCosmic are dentists.

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Old 09-05-2011, 08:43 PM   #963
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

That's it I'm steering this baby away from the fan casting and Amazon tech for a while. Come on people I want to hear some ideas on composers.

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Ennio Morricone - now THAT would be a hell of a choice for a composer.
Can somebody talk him into making this?
I would love to hear some samples.

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Old 09-05-2011, 09:43 PM   #964
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

I've been working on writing out my vision for a WW movie for a while, and I'm almost done. It's a lot harder to do than I thought. How much change would you mind for WW's origin?

I would change several details such as the history of Themyscira and Diana's powers, her birth, and how the gods are.

The animated movie made several changes and skipped her birth entirely. I think WW's origin could use more interpretations. I mean, look how often Superman's origin is revisited.

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Old 09-05-2011, 10:06 PM   #965
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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I've been working on writing out my vision for a WW movie for a while, and I'm almost done. It's a lot harder to do than I thought. How much change would you mind for WW's origin?

I would change several details such as the history of Themyscira and Diana's powers, her birth, and how the gods are.

The animated movie made several changes and skipped her birth entirely. I think WW's origin could use more interpretations. I mean, look how often Superman's origin is revisited.
i liked what the did in Leata Kalogridis but adding circe into it. plus they are changing her origins in the DCnU so maybe that new origin could work alot smoother than the other ones.

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Old 09-06-2011, 03:24 AM   #966
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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I've been working on writing out my vision for a WW movie for a while, and I'm almost done. It's a lot harder to do than I thought. How much change would you mind for WW's origin?

I would change several details such as the history of Themyscira and Diana's powers, her birth, and how the gods are.

The animated movie made several changes and skipped her birth entirely. I think WW's origin could use more interpretations. I mean, look how often Superman's origin is revisited.
I think a change in the origin story of is something that has to be done, so i'm on with it. However, if you're going to move away too much from the character's roots and espacially the mythology behind her... It's not . Take it into consideration.
And BTW if i remember correctly the animated movie did deal with her birth from clay...

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Old 09-06-2011, 08:11 AM   #967
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And BTW if i remember correctly the animated movie did deal with her birth from clay...
Ah you're right, but it was still done differently. My version is more in line with the events of Gods and Mortals with its own changes.

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Old 09-06-2011, 09:35 AM   #968
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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How often does WW smile anyway?
Not often enough.

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Best smile could be all sorts of things. That's what makes it subjective. They have to first define what radiant means to them. They could factor in all sorts of things that contribute to a smile. I doubt they're only looking at the shape of their mouth. Teeth, facial proportions, etc. could be criteria for judging. Therefore, it's not simply some notion of "radiant", but the qualities that amount to being radiant.
All of that is done subconciously and people tend to agree. Just because it's subjective doesn't mean that there's not a clear concensus.

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I don't agree with this opinion. An award-winning smile isn't crucial. She doesn't need to win over anyone with a smile. And, the movie WW could be both compassionate and a warrior. The only thing WW's smile has to be is honest and believable and that boils down to good acting. She smiles when she feels like it, and that's that. The beauty of her smile doesn't matter one bit as long as it conveys her emotion.
Appearance doesn't matter (at all?) as long as the performance is good? That's simply not true.

The compassionate and a warrior thing rarely (never) comes across in a film character. A character is always primarily one or the other, and usually lipservice is given to the lesser quality (almost always compassion), but occasionally it is fleshed out in a scene with a child before they go on to brutally maim the bad guy.

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It's not really that bizarre actually. There's a whole science to it with micro expressions (which was the subject of that TV series "Lie To Me"). Also, in connection with this same thing, people in related studies are frequently asked to pick out which faces seem the most trustworthy, honest, approachable etc.

As for a person having a radiant smile, this can't simply be done with acting. The whole idea of a duchenne smile in micro expressions (which is considered a genuine smile where you're smiling with your eyes) is that it can't be faked. When someone is said to have a radiant smile and their whole face lights up, it is because all the muscles of the face, particularly the eyes, are consistent and reflect a genuine happiness. Someone who does this often gives the feeling of being someone easy going, warm and approachable. You can pretend to be genuinely happy and fake a smile, but certain facial muscles (eg your eyes or your mouth, or the way your cheekbones move upwards) won't be consistent with a genuine smile. While it might be almost imperceivable, there is a subtle difference, and strangely enough, people can discern a difference even if they can't fully put their finger on it.

How this applies to actors is that those who display that duchenne smile more frequently and genuinely reflect that happiness (which is in some ways a reflection of their inner state of mind) and consequently a sense of peace will give off a more approachable, trustworthy feel without even trying. Others can act at it, but it will not seem as if it is something inherent to them.
I hate it when I need someone more knowledgeable than I to make my point. Thank you.

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Old 09-06-2011, 10:07 AM   #969
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

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I hate it when I need someone more knowledgeable than I to make my point. Thank you.
This whole conversation about smiling is insane.

WB exec: "We're considering finally greenlighting a Wonder Woman movie. What do things look like on the WW fan forums?"

DC exec: "They're talking about which potential Wonder Woman movie actress has a sufficiently radiant smile to play the character."

WB exec: "...Seriously?"

DC exec: "Yeah."

WB exec: "Okay, that just tears it. We're never doing a WW movie. They really want to pass judgment about whether an actress's *smile* is good enough? Height, looks, chest size, athleticism, musculature, and now her freakin' smile? There is no actress in the entire universe we could ever pick who could keep all these fans happy. It's a recipe for bad buzz from the start no matter who we cast. Let's just take the money and make another 'Fast and Furious' sequel instead." [walks off muttering to self about overaged Comic-Book-Guy-esque fans who still live in their parents' basements]


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Old 09-06-2011, 10:31 AM   #970
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

Yeah, it's absurd that something as trivial as a smile is obsessed over. WW is so much more than a radiant smile. No superhero actor has been cast perfectly, but some WW fans won't even consider a less than perfect smile. lol it's nonsense

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Old 09-06-2011, 11:24 AM   #971
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This whole conversation about smiling is insane.

WB exec: "We're considering finally greenlighting a Wonder Woman movie. What do things look like on the WW fan forums?"

DC exec: "About which potential Wonder Woman movie actress has a sufficiently radiant smile to play the character."

WB exec: "...Seriously?"

DC exec: "Yeah."

WB exec: "Okay, that just tears it. We're never doing a WW movie. They really want to pass judgment about whether an actress's *smile* is good enough? Height, looks, chest size, athleticism, musculature, and now her freakin' smile? There is no actress in the entire universe we could ever pick who could keep all these fans happy. It's a recipe for bad buzz from the start no matter who we cast. Let's just take the money and make another 'Fast and Furious' sequel instead." [walks off muttering to self about overaged Comic-Book-Guy-esque fans who still live in their parents' basements]
Lol, but in reality more like:

DC exec: What about Jamie Alexander?
WB exec: Who?
DC exec: The girl from Thor?
WB exec: Natalie Portman??
DC exec: No, Sif, the warrior girl
WB exec: Oh... she's okay I guess.
DC exec: Are you kidding me? She's got action experience, loves the character, she looks like the character, she's a young up and comer...
WB exec: Yeah, but she doesn't really have that... charisma we're looking for Diana's sweetheart side
DC exec: but... but... she can act like she has charisma!
WB exec: Speaking of which... what's charisma carpenter doing?
DC exec: *headdesk*

I mean, if you guys were saying it can be worked around, I'd be like: well, yeah, but can Jamie? But you guys are saying its a non-issue, when its the difference between the careers of Julia Roberts and Sandra Bullock. No matter how great an actress you are, there's certain parts that just require a natrual/radiant/whatever you want to call more appealing smile.

It's true, they could just downplay her sweetheart side, as modern comics do, and make it a straight actoiner, in which case, Jamie wouldn't be doing much (any?) smiling anyway, and it wouldn't be important the story, so not having the most appealing smile would be actually irrelevant.

Also...
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Who would you cast as Ares? Or would you start with another villain?

Who would you cast as Steve Trevor?

Who would you cast as Etta Candy?

How would you interest people who think they already know all there is to know about Wonder Woman?

What Power Level would you put her at?

How prominently should the lasso figure in the story?
I tried to start a conversation about something more vital, but that simply wasn't interesting. Should I continue to talk to myself?

1) I would cast an A-lister, or superhot up and comer as Ares. Anyone who's willing to immerse themselves in the character. No character actors who are known for villains though, so bye to Ralph Fiennes and Hugo Weaving, no, no, somebody that the audience will love and believe as a badass hardcore warrior king. Bruce Willis would be ideal. Nicolas Cage would be sad, but acceptable, given a great director. Jeffery Dean Morgan would probably give him a very earthy swaggery edge that the character needs to feel less 'out of touch' and ethereal, but still better than you in every conceivable way.

2) For Steve Trevor, I imagine a sidekick-like character to help the film with a male audience, which is part of the reason why the original comics were so successful and the character so consistently present. Ryan Gosling would pretty much own the idea of an air-force super spy falling in love with an uberchick. And he'd make it look cool and manly to do so.

3) Etta is also needed as a female sidekick-ish type supporting cast to give room and credence to female-female interaction in the film, outside of the context of mythology that comes with the Amazons. I think that the TV pilot was schrewd in making her black (and not overweight), so I could see a Kerry Washington bringing home that sort of professional girl who Wonder Woman frees from herself. Alternately, for a more traditional take, Nikki Blonsky (the girl from Hairspray) would make a sufficiently excitable type.

4) To interest the disinterested, I would use some sort of hook, like Batman Begins did with Batman, starting him out in a prison, and started the trailers out with that as well, to assure all, this is not who you think it is, it's more than that. This for a character that most like anyway. Starting Diana out in some unexpected position, perhaps not so far as to make her pregnant, or turned to stone, but something significant and interesting outside of "yeah, everything's been going great so far" so that she'll have a journey.

5) For power level, I'd probably save her full force for the climax, but even then, I'd only have her picking up a few hundred tons (trucks, jets, maybe train stopping). I find the arbitrary strength levels of comics are not only narratively unnecessary in films, but remove tension (and thus quality) that clear benchmarks would keep in place.

6) The lasso and it's truth-power would be at the crux of the climax. The idea would be that she would save Ares from himself with Truth, during a lengthy close quarters conflict.


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Old 09-06-2011, 11:28 AM   #972
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I mean, if you guys were saying it can be worked around, I'd be like: well, yeah, but can Jamie? But you guys are saying its a non-issue, when its the difference between the careers of Julia Roberts and Sandra Bullock. No matter how great an actress you are, there's certain parts that just require a natrual/radiant/whatever you want to call more appealing smile.
If you think that Julia Roberts' smile is the reason she gets parts that Sandra Bullock doesn't, I suspect you don't know much about Hollywood. And with that, I'm going to follow JMC's lead and not contribute further to the smile discussion, lest it be prolonged.

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Old 09-06-2011, 11:39 AM   #973
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 3

That's kinda cheap, to imply relevant knowledge and then bow out. Agreeing to disagree would be fine. What would you fellas prefer to talk about?

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Old 09-06-2011, 05:06 PM   #974
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Should Ares have some philosophical outlook like Nolan's Joker?

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Old 09-06-2011, 05:21 PM   #975
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That's kinda cheap, to imply relevant knowledge and then bow out. Agreeing to disagree would be fine. What would you fellas prefer to talk about?
Re: relevant knowledge, I'm happy to answer questions about Hollywood. Re: what should we talk about...is there any aspect of a potential WW movie that we haven't beaten to a bloody pulp?

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