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Old 05-24-2011, 10:13 PM   #76
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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And why should it bother you? It's my prerogative which characters or actors I like, and I wasn't attacking anyone here for liking one character (or actor) over the other. People have their preferences and I respect that and I'd like mine to be respected too. Plus, Magneto has plenty of admirers, it's not like the opinion of a mere dissident matters anyway.

What people say here is one thing, what the director of the film says is another. And what Vaughn said bothered me, because it sounded as if Xavier wouldn't have much of a function to Magneto in the next film since he was paralyzed, as if Xavier's role was to gravitate around Magneto, not mantain the school and train new students. Why only one new character, and not one or two new kids at the school so that Xavier can continue his work? Sounds really weird to me...plus, the school wouldn't have female students, which is even weirder, unless Angel joins.

All in all, I want First Class to be the best and most sucsessful CBM of all time, and it depends a whole lot on all the characters being great, including Magneto. I would be an idiot if I thought otherwise. It's Vaughn who seems to forget it when he only gushes about Magneto in interviews. But I learned that, with Vaughn, you read what he says, it annoys you, but after a while you forget it because you just care about the idea of him coming up with a series of amazing X-movies.
All the early reviews indicate that Xavier is just as important as Erik - they are the perfect foil for each other. In fact, they go so far to give Xavier some character flaws so he wouldn't be seen as this 'saintly' type that he became. They seemed to have given much consideration to the development of Xavier, as much as Erik. So I can't see your point. If anything, it's certainly no different from Bryan Singer gushing about Wolverine but at the same time directing an ensemble cast quite well and getting two good films out of it.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:31 PM   #77
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Please don't let it be Wolverine.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:37 PM   #78
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Shadow King is the only character I could see working. As a physical threat to Magneto in the real world and fighting Xavier on the Astral Plane simultaneous.


I hope he just means major character. Xavier's team needs another strong female mutant character.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:57 PM   #79
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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Please don't let it be Wolverine.
I really don't think so. We've seen their relationship play out between Wolverine and Magneto - and the former was never really a match for the Master of Magnetism. And besides, X1 was the first time they'd met. Since the filmmakers indicate that they want to set the sequel in the 70's, it would be really illogical if they did that.

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Old 05-24-2011, 11:23 PM   #80
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

I never said Vaughn wouldn't come up with a great film just because Magneto is his favorite character. I just wanted to see him talking a little bit more about Xavier's and the other characters' motivations as well. All in all it was just a commentary about what he had said, no big deal. But suddenly I'm being accused of hating a character just because I'm more interested in another, which is unfair. Haters are trolls; I don't consider myself one.

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Old 05-25-2011, 12:07 AM   #81
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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how is Xavier not a match for Magneto just because he's in a wheelchair?
I'm tired of Vaughn's interviews, all his opinions come off as douche-y
RIGHT! Xavier is a beast yo!!.. as for the new character in the projected sequel I'm going to have to say the new character is going to be Polaris she's got identical powers to magneto making it "even" plus she fits in with the story the way it looks way tooo well. (ie: dating alex summers & associates with Emma Frost).

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Old 05-25-2011, 12:30 AM   #82
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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I never said Vaughn wouldn't come up with a great film just because Magneto is his favorite character. I just wanted to see him talking a little bit more about Xavier's and the other characters' motivations as well. All in all it was just a commentary about what he had said, no big deal. But suddenly I'm being accused of hating a character just because I'm more interested in another, which is unfair. Haters are trolls; I don't consider myself one.
I'm not accusing you of thinking that Vaughn wouldn't knock this one out of the park, I'm just saying that there are other reviews and sources where Vaughn delves into the characterisation of Xavier's - he AND McAvoy initially found him to be a 'boring, sanctimonious character', and so decided to make him more interesting with some flaws. It's okay for Vaughn to establish that he's 'obsessed' with Magneto; he's not denying that, but almost every time Magneto is mentioned, it's usually in the same breath as talking about Xavier's. My point is that I think Vaughn recognises that Xavier and Erik are equally important. Erik's backstory is one of pathos, whereas Xavier learns that his ideology may be his own undoing during the course of the film.

Clearly, their relationship is the core of the film, with Mystique in tow.

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Old 05-25-2011, 01:32 AM   #83
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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It's okay for Vaughn to establish that he's 'obsessed' with Magneto; he's not denying that, but almost every time Magneto is mentioned, it's usually in the same breath as talking about Xavier's.
Hmm, no. He talks about their relationship and how the actors worked so well together, but when he wants to single out a character, it's always Magneto.

Oh well. I'll tell you what: if the Charles/Erik relationship works so well on the screen, it has a hell lot to do with James McAvoy; he's such an empath, as an actor and as a person. It's not a surprise so many of his partners on film are nominated or win awards.
It'll happen again this time, I'm sure. Fassbender will get his awards and McAvoy will get his "Why can't James McAvoy go away?" threads that keep popping up at IMDb and the "meh"s of the CBM fanboys.

Eh, I just thought Vaughn could be a bit more graceful towards James and the work he did and not only keep going on and on about his Bond Magneto. Magneto/Fassbender is already a fanboy favorite, why can't he bring up Xavier's importance a bit more?

It's not that McAvoy cares, though. I probably care more than him. It's just that he's a fantastic actor but always so underrated, and Xavier is as fantastic character on his own - he doesn't depend on Erik to be great, which is something Vaughn kind of insinuated.

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Old 05-25-2011, 01:46 AM   #84
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

I don't see any of what you're talking about. Ever.


There's a reason McAvoy was the first person cast.

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Old 05-25-2011, 02:04 AM   #85
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

So you haven't been checking Vaughn's interviews. Especially the one posted here, it's a bit shocking how he almost discards Xavier in lieau of some other character for Erik to play with.

Yes, there is a reason James was the first person cast and it would be nice to hear Vaughn talk a little bit more about this.

Anyway, Vaughn isn't exactly diplomatic. I'm glad he makes great films, and I'll skip his interviews from now on.

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Old 05-25-2011, 02:10 AM   #86
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Your argument just makes zero sense to me. You know I'm a huge James fan, like yourself, but you just seem angered by the fact that people prefer Magneto and think Fassbender delivered an outstanding performance.

This isn't kindergarten snack time where each kid has to have the same amount of cookies.

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Old 05-25-2011, 02:33 AM   #87
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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So you haven't been checking Vaughn's interviews. Especially the one posted here, it's a bit shocking how he almost discards Xavier in lieau of some other character for Erik to play with.

Yes, there is a reason James was the first person cast and it would be nice to hear Vaughn talk a little bit more about this.

Anyway, Vaughn isn't exactly diplomatic. I'm glad he makes great films, and I'll skip his interviews from now on.
I have read his interviews. Vaughn has talked enough about how he made McAvoy read with everyone trying out for Magneto, to the point of annoyance.

Perhaps Magneto is only more popular because in comic canon, Xavier has always been something of a character that people have trouble really liking and relating to as a person. Granted, he is the reason X-Men was formed in the first place, if not the impetus for many of the great and endearing characters that have entered the school gates. He also has provided an ideological narrative. But you don't hear about Professor X ranking high in the popularity polls, because he is probably 'what you see is what you get.'

That's my take anyway. However I suspect that after XMFC, people will find Xavier much more appealing, and therefore somebody to relate to. Reviews also say that McAvoy's Xavier was brilliant.

You may be bothered by the fact that simply because Magneto is Vaughn's favourite character, he takes some of the gloss off of Xavier in the film. From what I can tell, that doesn't seem to the case. Xavier and Erik are equally at the forefront.

Up till now, Magneto is just more of a fascinating character and he has the pulse on why so many people like him. There was a reason he was going to have his solo film, plus he has had his own mini series. I'm not sure if Xavier ever had the latter, but it doesn't make him all the less diminished for it in both mediums.

At least Vaughn doesn't claim Wolverine to be his favourite character. Now that would be horrors! (Incidentally, he says his favourite is actually Stacy X, but you don't see him putting her in the films just yet)

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Old 05-25-2011, 02:41 AM   #88
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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Hmm, no. He talks about their relationship and how the actors worked so well together, but when he wants to single out a character, it's always Magneto.

Oh well. I'll tell you what: if the Charles/Erik relationship works so well on the screen, it has a hell lot to do with James McAvoy; he's such an empath, as an actor and as a person. It's not a surprise so many of his partners on film are nominated or win awards.
It'll happen again this time, I'm sure. Fassbender will get his awards and McAvoy will get his "Why can't James McAvoy go away?" threads that keep popping up at IMDb and the "meh"s of the CBM fanboys.

Eh, I just thought Vaughn could be a bit more graceful towards James and the work he did and not only keep going on and on about his Bond Magneto. Magneto/Fassbender is already a fanboy favorite, why can't he bring up Xavier's importance a bit more?

It's not that McAvoy cares, though. I probably care more than him. It's just that he's a fantastic actor but always so underrated, and Xavier is as fantastic character on his own - he doesn't depend on Erik to be great, which is something Vaughn kind of insinuated.
I can understand your frustrations. But I think it's a matter of interpretation. You could argue that Erik in turn depends on Xavier to make him great, to see that he has the potential goodness in him by which Xavier has been trying to bring out.

The Bond element; well it had to be Magneto, because it's his story about revenge, he employs questionable methods and he has the tag of an anti-hero. He has more of a pathos whereby his suffering as a child feeds into the wider narrative of mutant persecution. Xavier on the other hand almost has it easy, so there probably is less of a reason to talk about him. But the fact he has been written to be a more 'flawed' character speaks volumes about the kind of consideration that Vaughn has given him.

Xavier overall has come from a different trajectory. He isn't revengeful and he is more of a 'surface' character than Erik is. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

As for predicting that Fassbender comes out the winner at the expense of McAvoy, all the reviews that delve into their relationship, and into the latter's performance in particular would contradict that. McAvoy sounds to me to be just as memorable as Fassbender's.

To be fair, McAvoy is better known to the public that Fassbender is, and has been in more commercial films. So that balances out, if that helps.

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Old 05-25-2011, 03:09 AM   #89
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

I would love to see Shadow King , Sinister or even Proteus in a future Sequel.

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Old 05-25-2011, 04:15 AM   #90
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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The X-Men we used were already chosen by Bryan and Fox. In the draft they gave me all of the characters were in there. We cut Sunspot because we didn’t have enough time or money. They couldn’t make him work, he was a pain the ass.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/...hoot-and-more/

Sunspot maybe?

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Old 05-25-2011, 05:27 AM   #91
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Loganbabe, here's a longer version of Vaughn's interview that I think you might like: it either will reinforce your impressions of him or ease some. But it does back up my points that I was trying to make. In fact he even praises McAvoy in that last part.

-----
Q: You’ve talked about James Bond in reference to how you could see the character of Erik for Michael’s performance. Did you have a similar archetype for McAvoy as Xavier?

MV: Not really, actually.

Q: How did you direct him then? We’re you referential to Patrick Stewart in the other films?

MV: No we weren’t, in fact it was the opposite. I said, ‘don’t worry about Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart, I think they did a great job, but you’ve got to make these characters your own?’ I think, the way I was saying to James was, lets’ make the character more fun, so that you slowly see him becoming the Professor X of – the professor. When we first meet him, he’s not a professor, and we were trying to show that transition. It’s just not as fun. Seeing Magneto growing into a villain is far more interesting than seeing a guy sadly becoming a cripple, and becoming a teacher, ultimately. It’s not quite the arc you want to see as much, but I think James did a fabulous job, because it’s the hardest character to make interesting.

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Old 05-25-2011, 05:33 AM   #92
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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He may show up in the sequel, who knows? Interesting choice there.

Even though he was a part of Generation X, personally I would LOVE to see Chamber - he's such an interestingly visual character and he has a great, easy-to-relate-to story, albeit emo, but they could downplay it some, so he has to be there at some point!

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Old 05-25-2011, 06:17 AM   #93
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

My guess is the new character will be the villian. Probably Mr Sinister. If they're talking X-men I want Polaris. She's the only character that means alot by herself as I would rather see Jean, Cyclops etc arrive as a bunch.

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Old 05-25-2011, 06:46 AM   #94
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Seeing Magneto growing into a villain is far more interesting than seeing a guy sadly becoming a cripple, and becoming a teacher, ultimately.
Wow. "Sadly becoming a cripple and a teacher"? He talks as if becoming a teacher is as terrible as being crippled.

Vaughn seems to forget that not only Xavier is a "cripple" and a "teacher", but the most powerful telephat in the world. And "teaching" means he's responsible for keeping the school and welcoming a lot of troubled young mutants there, helping them to deal with their powers. It's far from sad.

I just hope he'll give Xavier an interesting arc in the next movie, and not just keep him moping around the mansion, depressed for being both a "cripple" and a "teacher". I think it's abundantly clear Vaughn is so much more interested on keeping his focus on Magneto, but it would be such a waste of James' talent.

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Itís not quite the arc you want to see as much, but I think James did a fabulous job, because itís the hardest character to make interesting.
Hmm, I'm quite interested in Xavier's arc, what is he talking about.

Yeah, the directors reach for James when they need an actor to portray the character who's not flashy, won't get the recognition and the awards, but needs a lot of internal, subtle, fabulous acting. The sad thing is, no matter how hard he works to make a character interesting, the focus will always be the other - the reviewers are having a blast going on and on about how amazing Magneto is, even Vaughn himself. Damn. I've seen this happen before.

Thanks for posting the interview; it just confirms my belief that I must stay away from whatever Vaughn has to say from now. This will help my full appreciation of the film and the characters for what I see on the screen.

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:02 AM   #95
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I really don't think so. We've seen their relationship play out between Wolverine and Magneto - and the former was never really a match for the Master of Magnetism. And besides, X1 was the first time they'd met. Since the filmmakers indicate that they want to set the sequel in the 70's, it would be really illogical if they did that.
not, that I am routing for him to be in it...
(as I don't think he fits at all, it would break continues,... yada yada yada)

but, technically, even if its set in the 70's, Logan wouldn't have his adamantium skeleton, yet, therefore Magneto's magnetism wouldn't really be as effective against him

just saying

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:03 AM   #96
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Cable would be interesting. Coming back from the future and encountering his grandpappy.

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:28 AM   #97
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Mr. Sinister pls!

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:33 AM   #98
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Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

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Wow. "Sadly becoming a cripple and a teacher"? He talks as if becoming a teacher is as terrible as being crippled.

Vaughn seems to forget that not only Xavier is a "cripple" and a "teacher", but the most powerful telephat in the world. And "teaching" means he's responsible for keeping the school and welcoming a lot of troubled young mutants there, helping them to deal with their powers. It's far from sad.
I thought you wouldn't have been reassured, ha ha, but I can give you my interpretation of his statements.

I think sadly is relative to how he became a cripple, not to his teacher status and the most powerful telepath in the world. He doesn't mention that it's sad that he became a teacher nor that he can read minds. You're reaching a bit there, with spurious reasoning.


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I just hope he'll give Xavier an interesting arc in the next movie, and not just keep him moping around the mansion, depressed for being both a "cripple" and a "teacher". I think it's abundantly clear Vaughn is so much more interested on keeping his focus on Magneto, but it would be such a waste of James' talent.
Nowhere did Vaughn say he'd mope around being depressed in his mansion in the sequel. NOTHING has been commented on his next arc. You're putting words into his mouth where there aren't any.

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Hmm, I'm quite interested in Xavier's arc, what is he talking about.
He means compared to Magneto's, in the general public's eyes. But as I said, after the film comes out, people will love Xavier as well. Some reviews I've just read say that Xavier is lovable, impish and awkward with corny pickup lines before setting his role as that of a teacher gathering all the mutants. You did see the trailers and spots yes? He has much of a hand in the tutelage of these students, even Erik's.

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Yeah, the directors reach for James when they need an actor to portray the character who's not flashy, won't get the recognition and the awards, but needs a lot of internal, subtle, fabulous acting. The sad thing is, no matter how hard he works to make a character interesting, the focus will always be the other - the reviewers are having a blast going on and on about how amazing Magneto is, even Vaughn himself. Damn. I've seen this happen before.
Um, ok. Did you read all the reviews that said that McAvoy was just as, if not more great as Fassbender's? What reviews have you been reading? It's a fact that his character requires a subtle performance but that doesn't make it any less powerful for it.

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Thanks for posting the interview; it just confirms my belief that I must stay away from whatever Vaughn has to say from now. This will help my full appreciation of the film and the characters for what I see on the screen.
No problem.

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:46 AM   #99
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Your argument just makes zero sense to me. You know I'm a huge James fan, like yourself, but you just seem angered by the fact that people prefer Magneto and think Fassbender delivered an outstanding performance.
My question to you is - why can't I express my personal opinion about it? Yes, I'm angered and frustrated, not because Magneto/Fassbender is getting recognition, but because I'm pretty sure McAvoy did a wonderful job as well, and still he's the one getting the "Why can't McAvoy go away?" threads at IMDb. You're getting it all wrong thinking that I necessarily hate the other character/actor just because there's this actor I love more, which is something I never tried to hide.

I've been following James' career for almost five years now, I know how fantastic he is, but the public's general perception is that the flashier character is alwayst the most interesting character. So it's indeed frustrating, because although James is (perhaps) most known than Fassbender, First Class IS the biggest thing he has ever done, and I'd like to see him receiving a fair amount of accolades as well. And it doesn't help when the director somehow aligns himself with the general public view.

I'm not worried about enjoying the film at all, I already love it so much I feel like exploding for having to wait the dreaded two weeks. I love everything about it so far, so expect nothing but glowing reviews when I finally see it. But I hope you don't mind when I express my personal feelings about this particular issue.

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A fair amount of the cookies would suit just fine. Not all kiddies are greedy.

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:51 AM   #100
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My question to you is - why can't I express my personal opinion about it? Yes, I'm angered and frustrated, not because Magneto/Fassbender is getting recognition, but because I'm pretty sure McAvoy did a wonderful job as well, and still he's the one getting the "Why can't McAvoy go away?" threads at IMDb. You're getting it all wrong thinking that I necessarily hate the other character/actor just because there's this actor I love more, which is something I never tried to hide.

I've been following James' career for almost five years now, I know how fantastic he is, but the public's general perception is that the flashier character is alwayst the most interesting character. So it's indeed frustrating, because although James is (perhaps) most known than Fassbender, First Class IS the biggest thing he has ever done, and I'd like to see him receiving a fair amount of accolades as well. And it doesn't help when the director somehow aligns himself with the general public view.

I'm not worried about enjoying the film at all, I already love it so much I feel like exploding for having to wait the dreaded two weeks. I love everything about it so far, so expect nothing but glowing reviews when I finally see it. But I hope you don't mind when I express my personal feelings about this particular issue.


A fair amount of the cookies would suit just fine. Not all kiddies are greedy.
Xavier and Magneto are very different and Magneto's backstory of pain/anguish/tragedy is perhaps more compelling and makes him more conflicted. Both actors do great but, personally, I liked Fassbender more. He was...magnetic!

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