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Old 07-10-2011, 01:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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Wow I didn't know many of these. Some of these ideas... suck

Bryan Singer's story idea, with Emma Frost manipulating Phoenix sounded way cooler.
Yea, there's a reason why I'm glad Vaughn walked. A lot of the ideas that came out under his watch were... bad.

Now, a couple of those ideas do sound good though. But some of it is really bad, yea.

The problem I have with Singer's version is I really don't like the idea of Phoenix flying off into space. I think the "alternate personality" aspect of Phoenix is a lot more interesting than cosmic entity version.

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Old 07-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

I have no problem with the off-into space ending if that had happened. There hasn't been much information from Singer himself has there though? The stuff I've read has come from Mike Doughtery's pitched ideas.

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Old 07-10-2011, 05:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

Meh, I don't want to see space, or space entities anywhere near these movies. I don't even particularly care for it in the comics, cartoons, or video games. I certainly don't want it in the movies.

As far as Bryan Singer's ideas, I don't know where they came from but some pitched ideas for that film came out awhile back. I only know of 2 of them: Emma Frost manipulating Jean Grey (good), and Phoenix flying off into space (bad).

As good as X-Men: The Last Stand was, and as much as I enjoyed the take on the Phoenix, it was missing someone to manipulate Jean's mind. There was a bit of that in Magneto encouraging Jean and offering her support, home, and companionship, while playing the card that Xavier and the X-Men wanted to control her and not allow her to be free, but even if it wasn't Emma Frost and the Hellfire Club, I think that Magneto having a telepath in his army to help manipulate Jean's mind would have added a bit of oomph to the arc.

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Old 07-11-2011, 01:54 AM   #29
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

Doughtery spoke on his pitches which included the accension into space ending, but also said he pitched:

- a sequence where Jean destroys some cargo ships out at sea because they are
actually carrying mutant slaves.
- Cyclops being wracked with guilt over Jean's death. He externalises it by believing that if the X-Men were stronger, and better trained she wouldn't have died, and builds the danger room in order to improve them.

Phoenix returning as a superior being is way more consistant with X2 imo, what with Jean's narration about evolution jumping forward and Charles' optimistic look. That doesn't line up very well with Jean's portrayal in TLS.

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Old 07-11-2011, 03:58 AM   #30
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

Is it true they are gonna have Keanu Reeves as Gambit?. Keanu Reeves is like too serious for Gambit.

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Old 07-11-2011, 04:02 AM   #31
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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- Cyclops would not appear and only be mentioned as having left the mansion or committed suicide earlier.
- Storm de-powered and Iceman taking a lead
- Logan and Storm has passionate relationship
These are just NOT GREAT

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Old 07-11-2011, 05:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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Originally Posted by henzINNIT View Post
Doughtery spoke on his pitches which included the accension into space ending, but also said he pitched:

- a sequence where Jean destroys some cargo ships out at sea because they are
actually carrying mutant slaves.
- Cyclops being wracked with guilt over Jean's death. He externalises it by believing that if the X-Men were stronger, and better trained she wouldn't have died, and builds the danger room in order to improve them.

Phoenix returning as a superior being is way more consistant with X2 imo, what with Jean's narration about evolution jumping forward and Charles' optimistic look. That doesn't line up very well with Jean's portrayal in TLS.
These were going to be Bryan Singer's version which sounds the coolest ! We had to stick with Fox's version of X3. I like some of the initial ideas when Vaughn was on board, however some decisions were forced by Fox, such as Wolverine taking the lead in almost every scenes (for the spin off). So glad they killed the romance between Wolverine and Storm. Remember the scene before he took off to see Jean in the forest? What was Storm trying to do with him ???

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Old 07-11-2011, 06:50 AM   #33
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

They were Dougherty's version. Not confirmed to be Singer-approved.

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Old 07-12-2011, 02:32 AM   #34
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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Fox has problem reuniting the cast for X3 that even before the production began, they had plan to end the series and he spin off for Wolverine was planned. This is why Wolverine was the main and only one stand out in the movie (check out the deleted scenes with Iceman).

They didn't even wanna include Cyclops because they want Wolverine to be the one that fixed all the problem. I'm glad they chose to kill him off, however offscreen. Having him committed suicide was far more stupid !

Same goes for Mystique, they could have cast any model in her place, but what will she actually do the movie ? standing beside Magneto and be a hench woman like Jean ? She would probably stand there looking bored and ran away at the end of Jean's havoc !

A Cyclops suicide? That's something I haven't heard yet. It would of been more than stupid.

They could of easily recast Cyclops. A lot could of happened differently but they made the most popular X-man front and center. It makes sense in the films but Cyclops could of been used so much better.

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Old 07-12-2011, 04:57 AM   #35
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

Yeah they could easily recast Cyclops, he wears Shades and visor like all the time. Some people wouldn't notice it.

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Old 07-13-2011, 08:51 AM   #36
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

That's the reason. They don't want him there ! They want Wolverine ! The one and only. Not even Iceman, who is in the movie, gets to shine !

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Old 07-14-2011, 04:06 AM   #37
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

Well Iceman definitely got more screentime in X3 than in X2.

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Old 07-14-2011, 06:32 AM   #38
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

He got a uniform, but I found him more memorable in X2, with the "coming out" scene and all. Most of the other characters were killed/written out so he got a bit of a promotion.

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Old 07-14-2011, 11:59 AM   #39
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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Originally Posted by henzINNIT View Post
Doughtery spoke on his pitches which included the accension into space ending, but also said he pitched:

- a sequence where Jean destroys some cargo ships out at sea because they are
actually carrying mutant slaves.
- Cyclops being wracked with guilt over Jean's death. He externalises it by believing that if the X-Men were stronger, and better trained she wouldn't have died, and builds the danger room in order to improve them.

Phoenix returning as a superior being is way more consistant with X2 imo, what with Jean's narration about evolution jumping forward and Charles' optimistic look. That doesn't line up very well with Jean's portrayal in TLS.
I dont know if I agree with that. Jean Grey being some kind of superior entity goes against everything the movies were trying to do. I like Jean as an incredibly powerful mutant who was held back by Xavier so much more than her being some super entity.

I don't think it conflicts with X2 that badly at all.

In fact I've been reading the Dark Phoenix Saga lately, as well as rewatching the version from the 90's animated series, and I have to say I am so much less upset about their handling of Phoenix in the movie after doing so.

Obviously, many elements were excluded or changed, but upon re-reading it, there are so many elements of it that I feel fit right in with what they were doing.

I accept the film version as a legitimate "alternate" take on the source (which is what the movies have been since the beginning, an "alternate take").

I thought it was a nice little tidbit that Beast was also a former X-Men member who returned to the team in a time of crisis in both versions. Small, sure, but a fun little aspect.

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Old 07-14-2011, 01:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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I dont know if I agree with that. Jean Grey being some kind of superior entity goes against everything the movies were trying to do. I like Jean as an incredibly powerful mutant who was held back by Xavier so much more than her being some super entity.

I don't think it conflicts with X2 that badly at all.

In fact I've been reading the Dark Phoenix Saga lately, as well as rewatching the version from the 90's animated series, and I have to say I am so much less upset about their handling of Phoenix in the movie after doing so.

Obviously, many elements were excluded or changed, but upon re-reading it, there are so many elements of it that I feel fit right in with what they were doing.

I accept the film version as a legitimate "alternate" take on the source (which is what the movies have been since the beginning, an "alternate take").

I thought it was a nice little tidbit that Beast was also a former X-Men member who returned to the team in a time of crisis in both versions. Small, sure, but a fun little aspect.
I don't object strongly with the Phoenix explanation in TLS. It's not what I would have expected after X2, and it calls into question exactly who Jean has been in previous films after Xavier tampered with her mind; but it's an efficient way to tell a Phoenix story in the film universe. I do dislike how she is used within the film though (or not used as it were)

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Old 07-14-2011, 04:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

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I don't object strongly with the Phoenix explanation in TLS. It's not what I would have expected after X2, and it calls into question exactly who Jean has been in previous films after Xavier tampered with her mind; but it's an efficient way to tell a Phoenix story in the film universe. I do dislike how she is used within the film though (or not used as it were)
It certainly wasn't what I expected either. But then again, at the time, I think it was expected that Singer was going to come back, and do X-Men 3 and X-Men 4 together, and we probably would have gotten more of a Phoenix Saga transitioning into the Dark Phoenix Saga. Then Singer walked, and Fox decided they wanted to kill the franchise (business wise, I don't exactly blame them, as the movies were getting more and more expensive. They made a business decision to end the huge investments)

As far as how Jean was handled in the movie... I like the characterization. I like what they did with the character, and I thought they portrayed her well as Jean Grey going crazy, for lack of a better term, and being consumed by these powers that she wasn't used to, and spiraling out of control.

I didn't have a problem with her being a "mute" for the latter part of the movie. I was able to fill in the blanks for her motivation to go with Magneto, as well as her lack of action at Alcatraz. I know a lot of people had issue with it, but I was able to put it all together, and it worked for me.

There are also 2 deleted scenes from the Alcatraz battle that clear up a lot of why Jean did what she did at Alcatraz, and why they were cut, I'll never understand because they combine for about a minute and a half of footage, but do so much to help explain her motivation.

I dunno. When I was reading the Dark Phoenix Saga the other night, and when I was watching the animated series' version of the Dark Phoenix Saga a few nights before that, so many times I saw parts where I was just felt like the movie version connected so well with it. I was surprised, because so many people say that the movie totally ruined the Dark Phoenix Saga, and previously, I had only really skimmed over the story, or it had been so long ago since I had watched the cartoon, that I wasn't fully familiar with it. But reading it again, it certainly is a different direction on the story, but I feel like they pushed a lot of the right buttons.

Even one of the most jarring changes, killing off Cyclops, when in the comic he's the one that has the psychic rappart with her, and he's the one person she is unable to kill, even that alteration has a way of working itself out when in the comic version, it's her watching him struck down in the final battle that finally sets off her powers once and for all, before she kills herself, and in the movie, it's her striking him down, and her killing him, that sets her off and eventually leads to her wanting to be killed. Even though Cyclops got shafted in the movie, I still felt like it was the Jean & Scott connection that drove her motivation, and with that, I can accept that.

The changes on the surface are very jarring, and devisive amongst fans certainly, but at least for me, when you dig beneath the surface, I think the film's version of the story hits all the same notes.

I wouldn't argue that they couldn't have developed it better though. They certainly could have, and that's where even though the movie as a whole works for me, and may even be my favorite of the entire series, it does remain an underwhelming movie when you consider the potential of what the movie could have been. And that's not saying "what would Singer's film have done", or "what would Vaughn's film have done" - the movie, as is, had potential to be better than it was, and didn't need Sentinels, or a lot of other missing elements to do it. It just needed to expand on the elements it did have.

I think this movie is a case of some slight alterations would make drastic changes.

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Old 07-14-2011, 07:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

Jean should have been the main protagonist of the whole movie, not Wolverine and Magneto.

But since the moment they decided to put the focus on Magneto and Wolverine, more the cure plot, the movie lost most of the potential it had to be an epic Phoenix saga adaptation.

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Old 07-14-2011, 10:20 PM   #43
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

I for one am glad that they focused a lot on Magneto and the cure. The movie isn't just adapting the Dark Phoenix Saga, but also continuing the ongoing story arcs that have been set up for 2 movies prior. As such, we had to see the war between humans and mutants.

Albeit, it was an underwhelming "war", but we had to get it. So the entire aspect of Emma Frost and Jason Wyngard manipulating Jean's mind was scrapped in favor of adapting Gifted, and building the climax of Magneto's war, and then replaced with Magneto manipulating Jean Grey to side against Xavier and the X-Men.

I dunno. It certainly wasn't the best movie we could have gotten, but I understand why certain decisions were made, and in some areas, I think they were the right decisions.

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Old 07-15-2011, 03:36 AM   #44
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

And it had two major storylines - The Phoenix and the Cure. I just wish the movie is 30mins longer.

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Old 07-31-2011, 07:01 AM   #45
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

maybe.

X3 was the worst of the trilogy though

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:28 AM   #46
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Default Re: If Matthew Vaughn directed X3, would it be better film?

It's possible. The problem with X-3 was that it had no heart, no proper character development. The only thing it did have that the two previous films lacked was action. It was nice to see more action in the third film, but the overall charm was vanished.
It's also hard to say, because Vaughn went into an entirely different route with First Class imo. The film didn't feel like the other X-Men films, which isn't a bad thing, it's just a new direction for the series...a direction in which I think is beneficial

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Old 08-02-2011, 12:52 AM   #47
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maybe.

X3 was the worst of the trilogy though
IMO out of the trilogy the worst was X1, out of all of them it was XO: Wolverine.

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Old 08-04-2011, 01:30 AM   #48
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When he found Mystique, she was cured. They both have emotional conversation and she asks him to kill her in which he does .
Wait, what? I never knew this. Are there storyboards of this? I loved the Magneto-Mystique relationship in the first two films (Ratner's X3 kind of ruined that relationship for me) and didn't know about this.

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