Which is better: X2 or First Class?

[The Strategos]

Personally I like Rogue in the films but hey that's just me and I agree the Hellfire club was a bit wasted. And I loved McAvoy and Fassbender in their roles so much! I didn't think that it could get better than Stewart and McKellen but I was wrong!

[def28]

Same here, they have really done a great job in casting those two characters in all the films.

[psylockolussus]

Originally Posted by Duran Man

Rogue was just there in all of the films.

LOL are you serious? Have you seen X-Men 1? She had a very prominent role in that movie.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

LOL are you serious? Have you seen X-Men 1? She had a very prominent role in that movie.

I think, though, that many fans were disappointed with the portrayal.

She was made to be a representation of the negative aspect of being a mutant (because her powers come with a big disadvantage), as well as a depiction of teenage angst and uncertainty and, narratively, the sacrificial virgin in the first film.

And then, of course, The Last Stand ended her arc with being cured. Although that's probably how a girl would react in the real world to having that mutation (given that more and more young people are getting cosmetic surgery to meet pressures and expectations), it didn't show her character growing to accept her powers (which would be much more in keeping with the theme of the films).

It might be good to show Rogue in the dystopian future, with her powers having returned and then augmented after absorbing the abilities of a dying mutant who has flight and strength. That's what fans would love to see. 'They couldn't cure us, so now they are trying to destroy us.'

[The Strategos]

I truth, I don't think that cure was permanent judging by Magneto.

[def28]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

She was made to be a representation of the negative aspect of being a mutant (because her powers come with a big disadvantage), as well as a depiction of teenage angst and uncertainty and, narratively, the sacrificial virgin in the first film.

Yeah, she never really grew into the team as a strong character, always seemed on the sidelines or just scared and complaining. I understand the angst is important, especially given their age but we should also see her as strong member of the X Men kicking ass as well. Overall I felt the team focus and camaraderie lacked a bit in the first two. Which is another thing I think FC and even X3 did better. Really want to see more of them fighting together as a Team.

[psylockolussus]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

They couldn't cure us, so now they are trying to destroy us.'

Thats a great line!

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Thats a great line!

Haha. I shouldn't give these ideas away for free!

(I'd love to be working on these films!)

[souvlaki]

It may just be because it's still new to me but I'm watching First Class right now and it's really no competition, even though I love X2. In fact right now I'd place First Class right behind TDK and TDKR as my favorite superhero film. As great as X2 is, I don't think there is anything in the previous films that has the same emotional resonance with me as Magneto's storyline. That alone put First Class on a different level from it's predecessors. It also works better as an ensemble piece whereas X2 at times just felt like the Wolverine show.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by souvlaki

It may just be because it's still new to me but I'm watching First Class right now and it's really no competition, even though I love X2. In fact right now I'd place First Class right behind TDK and TDKR as my favorite superhero film. As great as X2 is, I don't think there is anything in the previous films that has the same emotional resonance with me as Magneto's storyline. That alone put First Class on a different level from it's predecessors. It also works better as an ensemble piece whereas X2 at times just felt like the Wolverine show.

Exactly.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by souvlaki

It may just be because it's still new to me but I'm watching First Class right now and it's really no competition, even though I love X2. In fact right now I'd place First Class right behind TDK and TDKR as my favorite superhero film. As great as X2 is, I don't think there is anything in the previous films that has the same emotional resonance with me as Magneto's storyline. That alone put First Class on a different level from it's predecessors. It also works better as an ensemble piece whereas X2 at times just felt like the Wolverine show.

I agree that First Class does have the advantage of not being focused on Wolverine. Also, the emotions seem more real and more touching.

Jean's death at the dam in X2 never affected me at all, but Erik moving the satellite dish did.

[The Guard]

Uh...huh.

[jaymes_e06]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

I agree that First Class does have the advantage of not being focused on Wolverine. Also, the emotions seem more real and more touching.

Jean's death at the dam in X2 never affected me at all, but Erik moving the satellite dish did.

IDK I have the opposite opinion. The "satilite scene" was rather corney IMO and Jean's death scene" was more powerful to me outside of Scott's ***** ass cryin the scene was the most emotional of the entire series for me.

[Angamb]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Jean's death at the dam in X2 never affected me at all, but Erik moving the satellite dish did.

the same case as me. I really wanted to feel Jeans death in X2, but.... something didnt work. not sure what. maybe the way the scene was done, maybe her character during the whole movie, maybe the music... dont know.

[psylockolussus]

Originally Posted by Angamb

the same case as me. I really wanted to feel Jeans death in X2, but.... something didnt work. not sure what. maybe the way the scene was done, maybe her character during the whole movie, maybe the music... dont know.

Its the opposite for me. Jean's death scene was amazing and I felt their emotion when they were panicking that Jean was gonna sacrifice herself and she was gonna die. With Magneto's scene at the satellite, I felt nothing and I didn't like when James McAvoy kinda got teary-eyed.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Its the opposite for me. Jean's death scene was amazing and I felt their emotion when they were panicking that Jean was gonna sacrifice herself and she was gonna die. With Magneto's scene at the satellite, I felt nothing and I didn't like when James McAvoy kinda got teary-eyed.

I felt the opposite because First Class was largely Magneto's journey from terrible beginnings (torture in a concentration camp) to somehow trying to find an inner peace, through recollection of beautiful childhood memories. I don't know how anyone could fail to feel something for that, especially as Fassbender is so intense and expressive.

But in X2 - and I'm not knocking how great it was overall - it wasn't really Jean's story as such. It wasn't even Scott and Jean's story because Wolverine kept trampling all over it with his testosterone. And then Scott's bawling on the jet at the end didn't come across well (whether it was acting, writing, directing, his reaction just didn't seem right).

And I felt the scene where Jean was holding back the water and about to let go and sacrifice herself wasn't given maximum impact because of the music and the camerawork and the whole way it was presented. I will say, though, that the moment where she lets the water surge over her (amid that fiery energy aura) and her subsequent voiceover and hint of a firebird under the water were terrific and so well done.

I felt the Jean vs Scott fight at the dam was too short, I really wanted a bit more out of it. It needed dramatic tension - which we did see, for instance, in the scene where Wolverine is battling Magneto in the machine at the end of X1. A meeting of two powerful forces really needs to be focused on to build the 'oh my god! who will win? what will happen' suspense with the audience.
The Wolverine marching against Dark Phoenix in X3 also had a great amount of tension. We need to see people straining and fighting in such battles of force and willpower.

Just my thoughts anyway. I need to watch all these films again as I'm recalling all this from distant memory. I can feel an X-Men marathon movie night coming on...

[The Guard]

Here's a novel idea: Both X2 and FIRST CLASS had wonderfully executed emotional moments.

And of course, men don't cry when their loved one dies abruptly.



I like how people conveniently forget that Wolver was also crying.

[CB Fan]

Originally Posted by The Guard

Here's a novel idea: Both X2 and FIRST CLASS had wonderfully executed emotional moments.

And of course, men don't cry when their loved one dies abruptly.



I like how people conveniently forget that Wolver was also crying.

Real men arent supposed to have tear ducts...

I liked both scenes and I thought James handled Cyke losing the person he loves most in the world very well. Wolverine however should not have been crying he didnt know Jean nearly as long nor as well as Cyke. I can understand how people werent moved as much by Jeans death though because it really was the Wolverine show so all others took a back seat, in order to feel for the character you have to actually know the character.

[Mrs Vimes]

I found Jean's death scene very moving, but in a sense that I found Jean's choice to sacrifice herself for her loved ones moving, rather than because I was attached to the character. The reactions from Scott and Wolverine though did nothing for me. Partly because Marsden's acting was seriously off in that scene and partly because I just never found either Scott/Jean or Wolverine/Jean very convincing, so it felt that the emotion from either man was, I don't know, unearned. What moved me way more was when Prof X was talking about the young Jean back at the mansion.

The satellite dish scene moves me on a whole different level, because I absolutely love Erik and Charles and both actors bring such wonderful emotion and sensitivity to the scene and the connection between the two characters feels absolutely genuine. The only thing that distracts me a bit is when Erik grins his big grin after moving the dish and all I can think of for a second is, my grandma what big teeth you have

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by The Guard

Here's a novel idea: Both X2 and FIRST CLASS had wonderfully executed emotional moments.

And of course, men don't cry when their loved one dies abruptly.



I like how people conveniently forget that Wolver was also crying.

I didn't like how Wolverine was crying either! Nor did I like him crying over Xavier's empty wheelchair at the house in X3. For me, it didn't feel entirely convincing.

First Class also succeeds in showing a warmth and camaraderie between the young mutants when they first meet at the CIA. We didn't get such a scene with the other X-Men films.

But those are just my minor criticisms and observations. Given my 'X-mania' for this franchise and the fact i'm probably among the most loyal and ardent followers of it on this forum, and beyond this forum, I think a few more critical observations are perfectly permissible!

[The Guard]

I didn't like how Wolverine was crying either! Nor did I like him crying over Xavier's empty wheelchair at the house in X3. For me, it didn't feel entirely convincing.

Was he actually crying? I recall him collapsing in grief, but he wasn't exactly sobbing his eyes out, was he?

[Angamb]

Hugh Jackman's role in X3 wasnt Wolverine. He looked a bit like him, but that was another character.