The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > X-Men > X-Men: Days of Future Past

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2011, 02:26 AM   #76
HopeLoveFaith
New User - Level 0
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

I'm African american and I didn't cry racism when he died, I did cry fanboy and got pissed that it made zero sense to the storytelling. They didnt even explain HOW Shaw was able to kill him. Just lame.

Considering how he's transformed his body into energy in the comics, for YEARS, in order to survive being stranded on an orbiting asteroid in space. Or even worse than that, evolved into god-like power in order to survive Hela's death touch. The only way Marvel can redeem themselves is to have Darwin return at some point.

I almost feel like they were going to do that, with no one finding a body and the young, inexperienced mutants simply proclaiming him to be dead when they are no experts on mutations, specificially his. But that would probably be giving marvel too much credit.

HopeLoveFaith is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 02:32 AM   #77
SuperSoldier985
That's Funny
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,247
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

C'mon everyone, it's hardly an issue any more than it's been the issue that there are a little less than a handful of Black mutants period in the X-Men universe.

Ugh...Some people just live to find things to whine about.

SuperSoldier985 is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 02:42 AM   #78
Roose Bolton
Blood of the First Men
 
Roose Bolton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,458
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

The whole camera shot with the mention of slavery, to me that wasn't Vaughn being a prick, I took it more as a reference to the civil rights movement that was happening at the time..

Roose Bolton is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 02:46 AM   #79
truth
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 384
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

And where was the reference to the civil rights movement or mention of it? We got the Holocaust but not the event that was occurring AT THAT TIME.

truth is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:10 AM   #80
Roose Bolton
Blood of the First Men
 
Roose Bolton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,458
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by truth View Post
And where was the reference to the civil rights movement or mention of it? We got the Holocaust but not the event that was occurring AT THAT TIME.
I thought when Shaw mentioned slavery it was him sort of saying to Darwin "hey you're already part of a minority who's been through this." as an extra seductive measure

Also, while I missed the references to Dr. King and Malcome X, I think the Holocaust served the story better, because, at least in my opinion, that was the worst thing humanity has ever done to people that were "different."


Last edited by Roose Bolton; 06-05-2011 at 03:23 AM.
Roose Bolton is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 05:34 AM   #81
the a1ant
Awesome
 
the a1ant's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 19,414
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

I liked Darwin's small role in this film. His death was kinda cool. I just wish the characters felt more remorse for him. He turned into energy and light, just like in the comics. He'll make a new body in time for the sequel

__________________
X-MenFilms
the a1ant is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:07 AM   #82
DarKush
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,625
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by truth View Post
And where was the reference to the civil rights movement or mention of it? We got the Holocaust but not the event that was occurring AT THAT TIME.
I don't think there was a reference to the Civil Rights Movement in the film and I was disappointed by that. In X1, we got Magneto quoting Malcolm X and in X3 we got Raven disparaging her 'slave name' which I took as some reference to that era.

I don't think it's 'crying racism' or 'whining' to be concerned about how they dealt with Darwin. The death was unnecessary. Was it racism? I don't know, but it showed a casual disregard for a black character, and me being black myself, I wasn't that surprised.

The slavery/Darwin reaction shot was an acknowledgement that race existed, but poorly done. I wish there had been more of a reference to Civil Rights. It made little sense not to mention it, especially since it factored in the actual creation of the X-Men comic. A brief conversation between Angel and Darwin perhaps could've juxtaposed the mutant rights and Civil Rights struggles and given both much needed character development. Or Erik refuting Charles's faith in humanity by talking about how they still treat their own.

What we got instead was a false history where at least black people were around, but they were in the background and didn't matter all that much. For some whites this was their experience and still is, but it's not a complete experience and it didn't do justice to Darwin's character.

I'm getting to a point where I don't expect many whites to know the history of my people or to care about it, and so I'm not anticipating seeing them handle it with any sense of fairness or appropriateness, because it in part refutes their historical self-image. I can't look to white movies or other white media anymore in the hopes of getting it right, because they so often get it wrong if they don't outright ignore it or whitewash it (pun intended).


Last edited by DarKush; 06-05-2011 at 07:15 AM.
DarKush is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:14 AM   #83
bubbadoom
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,565
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

I think a point of the movie is that we should not judge people or mutants by their appearances, a lesson that some might wish to learn here...

bubbadoom is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:15 AM   #84
huzzah
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 609
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
I don't think there was a reference to the Civil Rights Movement in the film and I was disappointed by that. In X1, we got Magneto quoting Malcolm X and in X3 we got Raven disparaging her 'slave name' which I took as some reference to that era.
I think she was quoting Muhammed Ali when he renounced his 'slave name' and joined the Nation of Islam. I like that kind of defiance of authority.

huzzah is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:18 AM   #85
DarKush
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,625
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejon93 View Post
The more I think about Darwin's death, the happier I am with it in the context of the time period where racism was still strong. If you recall Shaw's speech to the kids about going him, he mentions being "enslaved" and looks straight at Darwin. It's a strong moment for Shaw's character when he kills Darwin because it shows how evil he really is. Yet it's a strong character moment for Darwin as well because it lets him bravely confront evil without hesitation.
Hadn't Shaw shown how evil he was when he killed Erik's mother in cold blood? Not to mention wiping out that CIA base? Killing Darwin didn't make him truly evil, that had already been established.

DarKush is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:18 AM   #86
X-Maniac
High Evolutionary
 
X-Maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Genosha
Posts: 12,892
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
I don't think there was a reference to the Civil Rights Movement in the film and I was disappointed by that. In X1, we got Magneto quoting Malcolm X and in X3 we got Raven disparaging her 'slave name' which I took as some reference to that era.

I don't think it's 'crying racism' or 'whining' to be concerned about how they dealt with Darwin. The death was unnecessary. Was it racism? I don't know, but it showed a casual disregard for a black character, and me being black myself, I wasn't that surprised.

The slavery/Darwin reaction shot was an acknowledgement that race existed, but poorly done. I wish there had been more of a reference to Civil Rights. It made little sense not to mention it, especially since it factored in the actual creation of the X-Men comic. A brief conversation between Angel and Darwin perhaps could've juxtaposed the mutant rights and Civil Rights struggles and given both much needed character development. Or Erik refuting Charles's faith in humanity by talking about how they still treat their own.

What we got instead was a false history where at least black people were around, but they were in the background and didn't matter all that much. For some whites this was their experience and still is, but it's not a complete experience and it didn't do justice to Darwin's character.
Admittedly, it is a Hollywood cliche that the black guy dies but i don't think it was intentional (Darwin dies early on in the comics and turns into energy), and i think there was enough going on in this film without piling on Civil Rights.

We had Nazis and the Holocaust and then the Cold War and Cuban Missile Crisis; that was plenty as a backdrop for the story.

Plus, the outsiders here are mutants, who stand for everything else - there is no overt mention of gays, blacks or Jews or any other minority. The mutants stand as a symbol of all that without it getting too preachy. The films don't go on and on about Magneto's Jewish background - it's pretty obvious but we don't want the film to be a rant against Nazis and anti-semitism. The mutants are the symbol for ALL intolerance.

Having said that, they may well look directly or indirectly at civil rights in the next film.

Martin Luther King's I Have A Dream speech was made a year later than this film's setting, in 1963, and his assassination came in 1968, so that's something that could be part of a further film.

__________________
Noah 3/10, Godzilla 6/10, CA:TWS 7/10, GoTG 7.5/10, X-Men: Days of Future Past 9/10
X-Maniac is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:33 AM   #87
DarKush
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,625
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

I don't see it as 'piling on at all' because it happened right along with the Cuban Missile Crisis. I never expected them to dwell on Civil Rights, but I can assume that discrimination played a part in Darwin and Angel's lives, and maybe the other X-characters lives as well (we know it shaped Erik), so why not mention it at least?


It could've served as a nice parallel to what was happening between humans and mutants. I'm not holding my breath that Civil Rights will be addressed or mentioned in a sequel. For one, we don't know if there will be a sequel and as it presently stands no black characters are on the team now (I'm assuming black characters could be the gateway to have those discussions, though white characters like Magneto and Raven have been given those references in the past).

You're making the assumption that the film has to dwell on Civil Rights. I guess for some folks mentioning civil rights or black history is 'dwelling' on it because many don't want to hear it at all.

DarKush is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:35 AM   #88
DarKush
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,625
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbadoom View Post
I think a point of the movie is that we should not judge people or mutants by their appearances, a lesson that some might wish to learn here...
If you are referring to me, I'm not judging people by their appearances. I'm looking at their actions.

DarKush is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 08:02 AM   #89
bubbadoom
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,565
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

was not...

bubbadoom is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 08:57 AM   #90
Nokio
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,782
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejon93 View Post
This is 2011, man. Only Michael Bay hasn't gotten over stereotypes in Hollywood.
Hahahahahahahahahahahah!! I like that.

Nokio is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:10 AM   #91
X-Maniac
High Evolutionary
 
X-Maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Genosha
Posts: 12,892
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
I don't see it as 'piling on at all' because it happened right along with the Cuban Missile Crisis. I never expected them to dwell on Civil Rights, but I can assume that discrimination played a part in Darwin and Angel's lives, and maybe the other X-characters lives as well (we know it shaped Erik), so why not mention it at least?


It could've served as a nice parallel to what was happening between humans and mutants. I'm not holding my breath that Civil Rights will be addressed or mentioned in a sequel. For one, we don't know if there will be a sequel and as it presently stands no black characters are on the team now (I'm assuming black characters could be the gateway to have those discussions, though white characters like Magneto and Raven have been given those references in the past).

You're making the assumption that the film has to dwell on Civil Rights. I guess for some folks mentioning civil rights or black history is 'dwelling' on it because many don't want to hear it at all.
I can see why they didn't include a Civil Rights element. The film would have been at risk of losing its focus, in my view.

Anyway, what's done is done. There wasn't a Civil Rights element to the story so that's that. As I said, perhaps they will include it next time - and it could easily feature because Martin Luther King gave his historic speech a year later. This would tie in to Xavier also having his own dream of co-existence and tolerance...

__________________
Noah 3/10, Godzilla 6/10, CA:TWS 7/10, GoTG 7.5/10, X-Men: Days of Future Past 9/10
X-Maniac is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:14 AM   #92
bubbadoom
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,565
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Since the sequel is in the '70's the entire civil rights thing over and done with by then...

bubbadoom is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:18 AM   #93
X-Maniac
High Evolutionary
 
X-Maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Genosha
Posts: 12,892
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbadoom View Post
Since the sequel is in the '70's the entire civil rights thing over and done with by then...
If it definitely is in the 70s, then yes.

But there is no script for a sequel yet and Vaughn mentioned including the Kennedy assassination, which was in 1963. So it doesn't sound as if it is definitely in the 70s.

__________________
Noah 3/10, Godzilla 6/10, CA:TWS 7/10, GoTG 7.5/10, X-Men: Days of Future Past 9/10
X-Maniac is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:21 AM   #94
Nokio
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,782
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon sexton View Post
I think the Holocaust served the story better, because, at least in my opinion, that was the worst thing humanity has ever done to people that were "different."
What!! Man do you know how many Africans were wiped out in the genocide in Rwanda? The Congo? The fact that you can say the Holocust is the worst event in human history proves that racisam is still alive rather if it's direct or indirectly. Them people were begging and still are to the world for help. Ethinic cleansing is still going on. The media doesn't report it cause it's black Africans, no one cares. I don't see any different between the Jewish people that were killed under the orders of Hitler cause of their ethnic difference and the Africans that were and still is being wiped out because of their ethic difference then those in power. If you can explain it to me cause maybe I'm to stupid to see the difference in one human being to another.

Humans died in the slave trading that was going on. Look it up, well if you can find it. Sorry man and I'm not trying to get into an argument but over a million Africans died in the slave trade
expedition. Although you'll probably
never know it with the way history
has been rewritten and still is.
Texas as an example has rewrote
the slave trading expedition in the
grammar public schools history
books, renaming it a softening the event up. That's also available knowledge you can find. Jeez.

Nokio is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:24 AM   #95
X-Maniac
High Evolutionary
 
X-Maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Genosha
Posts: 12,892
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokio View Post
What!! Man do you know how many Africans were wiped out in the genocide in Rwanda? The Congo? The fact that you can say the Holocust is the worst event in human history proves that racisam is still alive rather if it's direct or indirectly. Them people were begging and still are to the world for help. Ethinic cleansing is still going on. The media doesn't report it cause it's black Africans, no one cares. I don't see any different between the Jewish people that were killed under the orders of Hitler cause of their ethnic difference and the Africans that were and still is being wiped out because of their ethic difference then those in power. If you can explain it to me cause maybe I'm to stupid to see the difference in one human being to another.

Humans died in the slave trading that was going on. Look it up, well if you can find it. Sorry man and I'm not trying to get into an argument but over a million Africans died in the slave trade
expedition. Although you'll probably
never know it with the way history
has been rewritten and still is.
Texas as an example has rewrote
the slave trading expedition in the
grammar public schools history
books, renaming it a softening the event up. That's also available knowledge you can find. Jeez.
Up to 17 million people died in the Holocaust.

Erik Lensherr is linked to that event through the comics and the films.

This film wasn't about Rwanda or the Congo.

__________________
Noah 3/10, Godzilla 6/10, CA:TWS 7/10, GoTG 7.5/10, X-Men: Days of Future Past 9/10
X-Maniac is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:44 AM   #96
spider-neil
spins a web any size!
 
spider-neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,314
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

havok's blast, even at point blank range shouldn't have killed darwin. his power is to evolve to survive any attack

spider-neil is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:50 AM   #97
Nokio
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,782
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Maniac View Post
I can see why they didn't include a Civil Rights element. The film would have been at risk of losing its focus, in my view.

Anyway, what's done is done. There wasn't a Civil Rights element to the story so that's that. As I said, perhaps they will include it next time - and it could easily
feature because Martin Luther King
gave his historic speech a year
later. This would tie in to Xavier
also having his own dream of co-
existence and tolerance...
Risk losing focus? Huh? If you are trying to show the persecution and hatred of mutants and you set the movie in that era where a real reality event like the civil rights struggle took place and not even mention it then your are lessoning the impact of Magneto and Xavier's beliefs. Erik suffered the through the holocust, well so did millions of others. They didn't turn on humanity. The man is still white, he has no problems to worry about, he can live a normal life unlike Darwin or Angel who can't change their skin color. The only other mutant who could understand it to an extent would be Mystique, but even she can change to fit in.

Movie magneto needs to have a reason other then the holocaust to show why he took the route he did. Otherwise he comes across as a bigot. We all know cause we read the comics and it's been done well there. In the movies no. The movies never in my opinion made that impact. Their was never scenes of mutant persecution, where mutants were being killed. Xavier rescued Nightcrawler from being lynched I believe by a mob who discovered him. Nothing that impactful in the movies save for the holocaust that impacted one mutant but also millions of humans. That doesn't exactly show Magneto's motivations for his actions. So the soldiers fire missiles at them on the beach? That meant nothing because humans didn't know mutants exist. What they saw could've been aliens for all they knew with outlandish powers and getting react to attack them. Just saying that it still isn't explained properly why Magneto chose his path in the movies. Mags change to dfight againist humanity happened far to soon and why it's a weak point of FC. That beach scene or something similar where X is crippled and they also part ways is something that shouldve been done in a 2nd or 3rd film and after seeing mutant persucution.


Last edited by Nokio; 06-05-2011 at 10:01 AM.
Nokio is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:59 AM   #98
Roose Bolton
Blood of the First Men
 
Roose Bolton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,458
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

I think it was sort of like a childs paranoia, we have to remeber that he was only a kid when they Nazi's started rounding up the jews and putting them in the camps, I think having grown up in that environment he has sort of always associated himself as someone who is different, sure the nazi's insanity couldnt hurt him anymore but he's a mutant, so I think that kept him thinking that, that's what would happen again, only this time they'd try to kill him because of his mutant heritage rather than his jewish. and he's not entirely unfounded in that, but I think the inhability to give humans a chance is part of that mindset he's had since he was a kid.

Roose Bolton is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:09 AM   #99
Nokio
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,782
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Maniac View Post
Up to 17 million people died in the Holocaust.

Erik Lensherr is linked to that event through the comics and the films.

This film wasn't about Rwanda or the Congo.
Sorry dude I meant a 100 million and not 1 million. Didn't say it was about Rwanda but you went off topic saying it was the worst even in human history in your opinion. I'm just pointing it out that other horific events happened in my opinion.

Nokio is offline  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:12 AM   #100
X-Maniac
High Evolutionary
 
X-Maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Genosha
Posts: 12,892
Default Re: SPOILERS - Darwin - SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokio View Post
Risk losing focus? Huh? If you are trying to show the persecution and hatred of mutants and you set the movie in that era where a real reality event like the civil rights struggle took place and not even mention it then your are lessoning the impact of Magneto and Xavier's beliefs. Erik suffered the through the holocust, well so did millions of others. They didn't turn on humanity. The man is still white, he has no problems to worry about, he can live a normal life unlike Darwin or Angel who can't change their skin color. The only other mutant who could understand it to an extent would be Mystique, but even she can change to fit in.

Movie magneto needs to have a reason other then the holocaust to show why he took the route he did. Otherwise he comes across as a bigot. We all know cause we read the comics and it's been done well there. In the movies no. The movies never in my opinion made that impact. Their was never scenes of mutant persecution, where mutants were being killed. Xavier rescued Nightcrawler from being lynched I believe by a mob who discovered him. Nothing that impactful in the movies save for the holocaust that impacted one mutant but also millions of humans. That doesn't exactly show Magneto's motivations for his actions. So the soldiers fire missiles at them on the beach? That meant nothing because humans didn't know mutants exist. What they saw could've been aliens for all they knew with outlandish powers and getting react to attack them. Just saying that it still isn't explained properly why Magneto chose his path in the movies. Mags change to dfight againist humanity happened far to soon and why it's a weak point of FC. That beach scene or something similar where X is crippled and they also part ways is something that shouldve been done in a 2nd or 3rd film and after seeing mutant persucution.
There's no way they can risk saving that beach scene and Xavier's paralysis until a second or third film, which may not happen. I admire your confidence in such sequels being greenlit with a simple nod, but that's not the reality of how things happen.

i thought the beach scene and Xavier being crippled brought a sense of satisfying conclusion to the film. Otherwise, where/how would they have ended it?

It's quite clear why Magneto chose his path. His hatred of humanity was more than justified by the missile attack, it proved him right. As we see later, he becomes the thing he hates the most. He is bitter and psychotic.

There's plenty more scope to show mutant persecution and Civil Rights. Your expectations on all these events being packed into the first of this new franchise is unrealistic and, frankly, preposterous.

__________________
Noah 3/10, Godzilla 6/10, CA:TWS 7/10, GoTG 7.5/10, X-Men: Days of Future Past 9/10
X-Maniac is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.