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Old 06-06-2011, 05:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: So, It's official now? Wiped out from existence?

As a SW fan, the only major issue that crops up with regards to the Prequels and the OT is the fate of Padme and how Leia remembers her, which is actully not that big of a deal if you sit down and apply some logical thinking instead of complaining that Lucas didn't spoon-feed us every little detail.

As previously stated, Vaughn's comments really leave only two scenarios in play as to what FC is supposed to be with regards to the rest of the X-Men film franchise:
1) A nuTrek-esque reboot that acknowledges certain aspects of the previous films where appropriate, but isn't beholden to them

2) A direct prequel to at least the first and second films, with some minor details being retconned

Edit: I want to unequivocally state that I am actually a fan of X-Men: The Last Stand, and am happy with the film given that the filmmakers did the best they could with it based on Singer's departure and their lack of knowledge as to what he had been planning for the aftermath of X2. However, regardless of what I personally feel about the film, it seems pretty clear to me that the PTB have made the decision to effectively declare both TLS and Origins: Wolverine to be apocryphal (i.e. out of continuity), given that, as previously stated, First Class, The Wolverine, and the in-development Deadpool movie all ignore one or both of those films.


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Old 06-06-2011, 05:59 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
As a SW fan, the only major issue that crops up with regards to the Prequels and the OT is the fate of Padme and how Leia remembers her, which is actully not that big of a deal if you sit down and apply some logical thinking instead of complaining that Lucas didn't spoon-feed us every little detail.

As previously stated, Vaughn's comments really leave only two scenarios in play as to what FC is supposed to be with regards to the rest of the X-Men film franchise:
1) A nuTrek-esque reboot that acknowledges certain aspects of the previous films where appropriate, but isn't beholden to them

2) A direct prequel to at least the first and second films, with some minor details being retconned

Edit: I want to unequivocally state that I am actually a fan of X-Men: The Last Stand, and am happy with the film given that the filmmakers did the best they could with it based on Singer's departure and their lack of knowledge as to what he had been planning for the aftermath of X2. However, regardless of what I personally feel about the film, it seems pretty clear to me that the PTB have made the decision to effectively declare both TLS and Origins: Wolverine to be apocryphal (i.e. out of continuity), given that, as previously stated, First Class, The Wolverine, and the in-development Deadpool movie all ignore one or both of those films.
Actually "The Wolverine" was not going to ignore Origins as if it never happened. It's going to be a loose prequel after all. I heard it is just being made as more of a stand alone, and people won't have to see Origins to understand it.

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Old 06-06-2011, 06:01 PM   #53
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The ONLY continuity flaw I really see is that Prof. X was walking at the beginning of X3.


Unless back in the 80s there was a mutant that Xavier recruited that allowed him to walk for a while then a year later that mutant died and Xavier was back in the wheelchair.


Hey...it's possible.


X3 is back in this universe.

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Old 06-06-2011, 06:09 PM   #54
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The ONLY continuity flaw I really see is that Prof. X was walking at the beginning of X3.


Unless back in the 80s there was a mutant that Xavier recruited that allowed him to walk for a while then a year later that mutant died and Xavier was back in the wheelchair.


Hey...it's possible.


X3 is back in this universe.
Also remember at the end of Origins, Charles was walking, which took place in the 80's, that must have been near the time he found Jean Grey.

Another thing that MAY be a continuity issue is the Storm cameo in FC. When charles is using cerebro, i think one of those kids looked like storm, and was supposed to be storm. BUT if that black girl with white hair WAS storm, that would make storm in X1 at least in her 40's (FC takes place in 1962, and X1 was at least in 99 or 00). This is weird, since storm in the x-men trilogy does not seem to be in her 40's.


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Old 06-06-2011, 06:14 PM   #55
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Simple solution: X1 actually takes place in the 90's, because that's probably when the script was written.

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Old 06-06-2011, 06:24 PM   #56
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At the beginning of X-Men 3: The Last Stand, Charles and Erik are still friends in the 1980's, as they're busy recruting new mutants (Jean Grey in particular), and Charles can still walk. Charles can also walk at the end of the Wolverine: Origins movie, also happening in the 1980's. But now in FIRST CLASS, he gets wheelchair-bound in 1962 as he and Erik irreversibly part ways.

Is this what we've been waiting for? The terrible Last Stand and Wolverine movies are no longer a part of continuity, and only X1, X2 and FC matter from now on (which would make sense, since Singer has returned, love the new Bad Hat Harry/Usual Suspects logo btw)? Did Tom Rothman die and no one told me?

They should stop selling the DVDs and Blus for those two, IMO. They've become as irrelevant as Batman Forever and Batman & Robin now that Nolan has reset the franchise. Here's hoping that the Frank Miller/Japanese "The Wolverine" follows suit as a new, far superior part of the X-men ret-conned timeline.
1. Xavier was crippled and regained the use of his legs again throughout the comics, i think recently he has been able to walk. in terms of the movie, i have two trains of thought, the first being that xavier can project an image of himself into the mind of anyone, whose to say at the begining of x-men 3 when he met jean grey, They kept there distance, still being in the car, and the projected themselves infront of jean as a protection thing... Think about it she is the most powerful mutant in the world wouldnt you want to keep your distance. the second thing is Just because Xavier and Magneto dont see eye to eye right now, doesnt mean they might reconcile to discuss mutants. Look at x2, Magneto was helping the team before turning strykers machine against humans. Magneto in my oppinion has his own agenda and would probably befriend him again only to betray him again.

2. End of X-Men Origins First Class, how do we know that was Xavier and not Mystique? think about it, you have a younger emma frost captured by stryker, but what if it was the same emma frost as in first class that used her teleknesis to infiltrate strykers base to help magneto destroy it. Magneto sends Mystique as xavier to help rescue the mutants...

its all plauseable.

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Old 06-06-2011, 06:32 PM   #57
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The walking thing in X3 isn't that bad. Xavier was all over Jean's brain to contain the Phoenix, so you can just read that scene as a cleaned-up memory implant that Charley-boy planted. He wasn't on his feet at the time, and him and Eric didn't arrive there together as bestest buds, but it's Xavier's prefered memory of the event.

Sorted.

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Old 06-06-2011, 06:35 PM   #58
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Agreed. That was really only point of potential continuity difference between X3 and FC. Beast being a member in FC actually fit in line with X3.

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Old 06-06-2011, 09:07 PM   #59
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Unless Vaughn is going to be a total jackass and disregard decades of X-men comic book cannon, Xavier will be healed and walk again only to actually be disabled in a psychic battle with the Shadow King. It's supposed to be Xavier's own powers that actually keep him from walking.

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Also remember at the end of Origins, Charles was walking, which took place in the 80's, that must have been near the time he found Jean Grey.

Another thing that MAY be a continuity issue is the Storm cameo in FC. When charles is using cerebro, i think one of those kids looked like storm, and was supposed to be storm. BUT if that black girl with white hair WAS storm, that would make storm in X1 at least in her 40's (FC takes place in 1962, and X1 was at least in 99 or 00). This is weird, since storm in the x-men trilogy does not seem to be in her 40's.

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Old 06-06-2011, 09:22 PM   #60
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Since when was Xavier disabled in a psychic battle with the Shadow King? The original cause was Lucifer.

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Old 06-06-2011, 09:27 PM   #61
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Default Re: So, It's official now? Wiped out from existence?

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Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
As a SW fan, the only major issue that crops up with regards to the Prequels and the OT is the fate of Padme and how Leia remembers her, which is actully not that big of a deal if you sit down and apply some logical thinking instead of complaining that Lucas didn't spoon-feed us every little detail.

As previously stated, Vaughn's comments really leave only two scenarios in play as to what FC is supposed to be with regards to the rest of the X-Men film franchise:
1) A nuTrek-esque reboot that acknowledges certain aspects of the previous films where appropriate, but isn't beholden to them

2) A direct prequel to at least the first and second films, with some minor details being retconned

Edit: I want to unequivocally state that I am actually a fan of X-Men: The Last Stand, and am happy with the film given that the filmmakers did the best they could with it based on Singer's departure and their lack of knowledge as to what he had been planning for the aftermath of X2. However, regardless of what I personally feel about the film, it seems pretty clear to me that the PTB have made the decision to effectively declare both TLS and Origins: Wolverine to be apocryphal (i.e. out of continuity), given that, as previously stated, First Class, The Wolverine, and the in-development Deadpool movie all ignore one or both of those films.
Okay, so you say the Star Wars trilogies only have one minor inconsistency between them, but that's the same for X-Men First Class and how it relates to X3 and Wolverine. The only inconsistency being that Xavier was walking in those movies. That's it. One scene in X3 and a cameo in Wolverine are all that First Class contradict. It also contradicts Hank McCoy's appearance in X2 as well. Such minor stuff, but obviously connects itself to the trilogy in so many more ways, and more significant ways.

-The opening scene of First Class being directly taken from X-Men.

-Magneto's entire motivation being directly taken from his origins in the first movie.

-Characters like Cyclops and Jean Grey not being included because their trilogy characters dont fit into this timeline.

-Beast's entire arc mirroring his arc in X3; his concern for his appearance (and Raven's) mirrors his defense of the cure in X3 as well as his reaction to being affected by Leech's powers; him being a member of the original X-Men team when he was portrayed as an older member of the X-Men team who had left and is now returning; his knowledge of Mystique and her powers.

First Class is a lead up to X-Men. X3 is 2 movies after that, and any future First Class sequels will put anywhere from 3-5 movies between the events of First Class and X3, so its hardly going to be referenced. Lack of reference =/= eliminating it from continuity.

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Old 06-06-2011, 09:34 PM   #62
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Default Re: So, It's official now? Wiped out from existence?

Also, in regards to the Storm issue - these films have never had a strict timeline, so her age discrepancy of a few years isn't that big a deal to me.

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Old 06-06-2011, 10:00 PM   #63
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[QUOTE=Deaths Head II;20528979]Since when was Xavier disabled in a psychic battle with the Shadow King? The original cause was Lucifer.[/QUOTM]

You're right. My bad. He was almost killed in his fight against the Shadow King, but you're right that Lucifer crippled him physically. But the comics do suggest that he can alter himself physically by using his telepathic powers. Anyway, getting shot because of Magneto should absolutely not be the cause of his crippling.

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Old 06-06-2011, 10:01 PM   #64
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One more lavish interpretation of the Cerebro cameos that I heard is that Charles may have even been having visions of future Mutants, meaning that in the 60's Cyke and Storm may not have even been born yet. It's a bit of a stretch, but I can bite-- either that, or X1 takes place in the late 90s rather than the year 2000.

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Old 06-06-2011, 10:06 PM   #65
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One more lavish interpretation of the Cerebro cameos that I heard is that Charles may have even been having visions of future Mutants, meaning that in the 60's Cyke and Storm may not have even been born yet. It's a bit of a stretch, but I can bite-- either that, or X1 takes place in the late 90s rather than the year 2000.
It's a big stretch. There's nothing in the movie that supports that notion.

Just take that the movies take place in the not too distant future, and leave it at that. I mean there wasn't/isn't advanced holographic technology that is shown in the film, or jets as advanced as the Blackbird in the '90s or '00s.

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Old 06-06-2011, 10:22 PM   #66
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I feel that way too.

Don't get me wrong - X-Men: The Last Stand is extremely flawed, on both an adaptation, and and film making level. It is the most bittersweet film of the series to me. Some elements of it, are just incredible - best of the entire franchise. Taken in a direction it probably should have been taken in the first place. Other elements make me facepalm over how badly they got it wrong.

But more than any other movie in the franchise, X-Men: The Last Stand feels to me like a bunch of fanboys mad because they didn't get the movie they built up in their minds.

I've followed 2 X-Men movies on here; The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and even occasionally popped in for X-Men: First Class. More than any of those films, The Last Stand was filled with wishlist after wishlist of what the fans wanted in the movie. And when those things that they built up in their head didn't come true, they absolutely ripped it.

Then you actually do stupid things like kill off Cyclops, cure Rogue, and turn Wolverine into the Cyclops-esque leader, and people are figuratively jumping off bridges.

In many ways, I rate X-Men: The Last Stand as the best of the bunch, but I'll be the first one to point out it's flaws. They are there. They can't be ignored or glossed over. And there were scenes cut from the movie that, if left in, or not replaced with alternate versions of those scenes, would have made the movie more powerful. But while it's flawed, it's certainly not the atrocity that it's made out to be. Wolverine was more flawed than The Last Stand, and even that wasn't *that* bad. You fix the element of the adamantium bullets (which those could even be explained if they kept the original mind wipe sequence that's on the DVD) and you've got a pretty solid movie on your hands. Butchering one character in Deadpool isn't enough to ruin an entire movie.

That said, I don't see this movie as a reboot to the franchise in any way. Just like the other 4 movies, it succeeds at many things, and lacks in others. Overall I think it's a good movie. I'd prefer a different director going forward, because Vaughn's style took me out of the movie quite a few times, and I didn't feel like I was watching an X-Men movie at times. But like I've said before, when he let it be an X-Men movie, and not his misguided attempt at a James Bond movie, it was incredible.

Wow, what a reasonable and logical post.

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Old 06-06-2011, 11:25 PM   #67
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I'll add to this little discussion .

I love all FIVE X-Men films. I'm a fan of the comis, the tv show and the movies. I understand their all a little different, but the spirit of the characters and as Singer says, their "essence" is the same throughout.

Yes, First Class ends with Magneto and Xavier parting ways and Xavier being
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
crippled


But honestly, in the comics, how many times have Xavier and Prof X reunited? Tons of times. They're friends at heart. So it would make sense for them to be off and on in the film universe too.

And finally, it's like a bad joke for Xavier in the comis. How many times has he gotten his legs back, only to be crippled again. Beast was inventing new things all the time, maybe he found a way for Prof X to walk again...

Only to be crippled by the time of X3

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Old 06-07-2011, 12:19 AM   #68
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I think this may all be determined if Vaughn gets his wish on creating a flash forward scene, because if he creates a scene with Ian and Patrick reprising their iconic roles in a scene that supposedly takes after the events of the first two films, then one could argue that the scene alone could do two things:

1. Eliminate the Last stand from FC's continuity potentially

2. Make way for a new film to take place in the present that would have taken after the events of X2 and before that flash forward scene.

I mean I've seen this sort of thing happened with other franchises.

Look at the Sarah Conner Chronicles. They were able to find a way to create a new timeline while giving a plausible explanation as to why the events of the third or fourth terminator didn't happen.

From what I heard, the Triple X series that started with Vin is supposedly getting a new film with him in it that's meant to ignore the events of the second film that had Ice Cube in it.

Superman Returns ignored the events of the last two christopher reeve films and only took liberties from the second film, while remaining a "loose" sequel to the first film.

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Old 06-07-2011, 12:46 AM   #69
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I feel that way too.

Don't get me wrong - X-Men: The Last Stand is extremely flawed, on both an adaptation, and and film making level. It is the most bittersweet film of the series to me. Some elements of it, are just incredible - best of the entire franchise. Taken in a direction it probably should have been taken in the first place. Other elements make me facepalm over how badly they got it wrong.

But more than any other movie in the franchise, X-Men: The Last Stand feels to me like a bunch of fanboys mad because they didn't get the movie they built up in their minds.

I've followed 2 X-Men movies on here; The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and even occasionally popped in for X-Men: First Class. More than any of those films, The Last Stand was filled with wishlist after wishlist of what the fans wanted in the movie. And when those things that they built up in their head didn't come true, they absolutely ripped it.

Then you actually do stupid things like kill off Cyclops, cure Rogue, and turn Wolverine into the Cyclops-esque leader, and people are figuratively jumping off bridges.

In many ways, I rate X-Men: The Last Stand as the best of the bunch, but I'll be the first one to point out it's flaws. They are there. They can't be ignored or glossed over. And there were scenes cut from the movie that, if left in, or not replaced with alternate versions of those scenes, would have made the movie more powerful. But while it's flawed, it's certainly not the atrocity that it's made out to be. Wolverine was more flawed than The Last Stand, and even that wasn't *that* bad. You fix the element of the adamantium bullets (which those could even be explained if they kept the original mind wipe sequence that's on the DVD) and you've got a pretty solid movie on your hands. Butchering one character in Deadpool isn't enough to ruin an entire movie.

That said, I don't see this movie as a reboot to the franchise in any way. Just like the other 4 movies, it succeeds at many things, and lacks in others. Overall I think it's a good movie. I'd prefer a different director going forward, because Vaughn's style took me out of the movie quite a few times, and I didn't feel like I was watching an X-Men movie at times. But like I've said before, when he let it be an X-Men movie, and not his misguided attempt at a James Bond movie, it was incredible.
Agreed and very well put.

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Old 06-07-2011, 12:48 AM   #70
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No way they are gonna ignore X3 and Wolverine

Those movies made more money than X1 and possibly XFC.

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Old 06-07-2011, 01:02 AM   #71
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No way they are gonna ignore X3 and Wolverine

Those movies made more money than X1 and possibly XFC.
lol, they already did.

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Old 06-07-2011, 01:39 AM   #72
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How? So Jean Grey didn't die in X3, Wolverine's origin story didn't happen.

Just because they ignored some things that happened in X3/Wolverine. Those films are suddenly out of the picture.

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Old 06-07-2011, 02:51 AM   #73
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It's a big stretch. There's nothing in the movie that supports that notion.

Just take that the movies take place in the not too distant future, and leave it at that. I mean there wasn't/isn't advanced holographic technology that is shown in the film, or jets as advanced as the Blackbird in the '90s or '00s.
Ok, so assuming he wasn't seeing the future and it was the 'present' are we assuming X1 is taking place in early 80s? I dont think style of televisions and mobile phones used in X1/X2 were around in the 80s...more like that late 90s making Storm in her late 40s early 50s.

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Old 06-07-2011, 02:59 AM   #74
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lol, they already did.
naw, they didn't.

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Old 06-07-2011, 06:47 AM   #75
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I hadn't thought about Nell's solutions, but they do make a certain amount of sense.

The O:W Emma thing is still somewhat of a problem, though.

One question I have with the above scenerio, though is this: is 20 years enough time for Xavier and Magneto to age enough that you could do a hypothetical 'morph' between McAvoy and Fassbender and the 'de-aged' versions of Stewart and McKellan as they appear in TLS and O:W?


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