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Old 06-08-2011, 10:11 PM   #51
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Raven is still in her late teens / early 20's in First Class. She's the same age as Xavier.
No, she would be 28 years old.

She was apparently 10 in 1944 and the movie is in 1962.

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Old 06-08-2011, 10:17 PM   #52
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18 years pass 1944-1962. It is said that Charles is 10 so one could assume that Erik is at most a year or two older, if at all and mystique is a year or two younger if at all.

Thus if Charles is now 28-29 then Mystique is 26-29, but looks and acts 14-17.

Also, if Xavier is going for his PhD then he is by far older than late teens.

I think it is fair to say that Xavier and Erik are now on opposite sides. If they weren't Azazel would have teleported everyone off the island.

Also, I don't want Jean to be the reason they fall out if they stay with the X3 theme of them still being close friends in the 80s. I'd rather they had conflict just because of their ideologies and not just one mutant.
Well for what it's worth, Jean Grey is the one mutant that kind of is the epitome of their conflict of ideologies.

Magneto thinks that mutants should be completely free and unrestrained. Xavier thinks that for the betterment of mutants and humans, certain mutants should be "controlled".

Also, as far as the math goes, I stand corrected. Mystique would be that old.

It's not enough to bother me. Perhaps because I'm a 28 year old college student that parties right alongside the 21 year olds myself. It's really not an issue to me.

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Old 06-08-2011, 10:20 PM   #53
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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Well for what it's worth, Jean Grey is the one mutant that kind of is the epitome of their conflict of ideologies.

Magneto thinks that mutants should be completely free and unrestrained. Xavier thinks that for the betterment of mutants and humans, certain mutants should be "controlled".

Also, as far as the math goes, I stand corrected. Mystique would be that old.

It's not enough to bother me. Perhaps because I'm a 28 year old college student that parties right alongside the 21 year olds myself. It's really not an issue to me.
Yeah, but I don't see them getting into a fight over it at least to the point that Charles becomes crippled.

Yeah I'm 27 and feel where you are coming from. I still be at the clubs like I just turned 21 lol.

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Old 06-08-2011, 10:23 PM   #54
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

This is a fun one, in "First Class" Wolverine tells Charles and Erik to go f*** themselves when they try to recruit him, 40 years later Magneto gets the last word "My dear boy, who ever said I wanted you?"

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Old 06-08-2011, 10:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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Yeah, but I don't see them getting into a fight over it at least to the point that Charles becomes crippled.

Yeah I'm 27 and feel where you are coming from. I still be at the clubs like I just turned 21 lol.
Well Xavier is already crippled.

I'm not going to try to explain my way out of Xavier walking in X-Men: The Last Stand (or in X-Men Origins: Wolverine). It's a continuity error, plain and simple. It's just not one that's gonna have me running around like a chicken with my head cut off screaming "REBOOT REBOOT!" especially considering it's a detail that doesn't really change the narrative.

As far as I'm concerned, the timeline is still in tact, with the rift between Xavier and Magneto not being fully completed, and they are able to come together to help Xavier recruit mutants for his school (and build Cerebro, which is how he finds the mutants).

So Magneto would effectively be crippled already, as established by the events of X-Men: First Class, and the conflict of ideologies, further amplified by the Jean Grey situation, would cause the final split between Magneto and Xavier.

That's how I'm looking at it anyways.

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Old 06-08-2011, 10:40 PM   #56
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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This is a fun one, in "First Class" Wolverine tells Charles and Erik to go f*** themselves when they try to recruit him, 40 years later Magneto gets the last word "My dear boy, who ever said I wanted you?"

That thought never occurred to me but it fits , lol

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I did just recently re-watch, x1 x2 back to back (after I saw first class)

and though, there were some obvious Inconsistency(especially in dialogue)

I'd say overall that it actually enhanced my viewing experience, of them

First Class is one of the best prequels. It fits right in for me. There's minor inconsistencies but I'm able to ignore or overlook them .
ex) Xavier tells Wolverine he met Magneto when he was 17. Professor X is basically saying he knew him when he was young before he became such a threat. He could of told Wolverine the entire story but throughout the trilogy he never tells Logan everything. B.S. I know but it works for me.

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Old 06-08-2011, 11:30 PM   #57
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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Well Xavier is already crippled.

I'm not going to try to explain my way out of Xavier walking in X-Men: The Last Stand (or in X-Men Origins: Wolverine). It's a continuity error, plain and simple. It's just not one that's gonna have me running around like a chicken with my head cut off screaming "REBOOT REBOOT!" especially considering it's a detail that doesn't really change the narrative.

As far as I'm concerned, the timeline is still in tact, with the rift between Xavier and Magneto not being fully completed, and they are able to come together to help Xavier recruit mutants for his school (and build Cerebro, which is how he finds the mutants).

So Magneto would effectively be crippled already, as established by the events of X-Men: First Class, and the conflict of ideologies, further amplified by the Jean Grey situation, would cause the final split between Magneto and Xavier.

That's how I'm looking at it anyways.
I'm glad someone can look at the films and find some consistencies. Other than the same actors/characters being in these films I can't. So I just take each one as it is. Makes it easier IMO. Still can't see why Magnus would help X recruit students for his school, but oh well.

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Old 06-08-2011, 11:46 PM   #58
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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I'm glad someone can look at the films and find some consistencies. Other than the same actors/characters being in these films I can't. So I just take each one as it is. Makes it easier IMO. Still can't see why Magnus would help X recruit students for his school, but oh well.
I can kinda see that he would, in the early days at least. They are different sides of the same coin in terms ideology. But Xavier is still helping out mutant children with nowhere to go, and I think Magneto respects that.

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Old 06-09-2011, 12:34 AM   #59
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

I think that First Class shows how similar Wolverine and Magneto actually are. In X2 Magneto asks Charles if he's trying to help Wolverine to make up for failing Jason Stryker, but now it seems he's making up for failing Erik.

Magneto also comes off as a snob when talking to Wolverine or talking about him. He refers to him as animal and insults his intelligence. Now you can wonder if that's from some kind of resentment of Wolverine because he reminds him of what he was or what he could have been because Wolverine didn't choose the same path he did.

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Old 06-09-2011, 04:06 AM   #60
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I've watched X1, X2, X3 again (refuse to ever watch wolverine again) and I have to say my enjoyment was definately enhanced by previously seeing first class.

I will also add X3 is nowhere NEAR as bad as most people make out, and the line; 'I'm sorry my dear but your not one of us anymore' is one of the most powerful lines in the franchise, including first class.

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Old 06-09-2011, 10:24 AM   #61
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I've watched X1, X2, X3 again (refuse to ever watch wolverine again) and I have to say my enjoyment was definately enhanced by previously seeing first class.

I will also add X3 is nowhere NEAR as bad as most people make out, and the line; 'I'm sorry my dear but your not one of us anymore' is one of the most powerful lines in the franchise, including first class.
The thing is, X3 has some truly genius moments and some great little pieces here and there as far as dialogue and action goes but it almost gets negated entirely due to all of the other shortcomings in the movie, so it leaves you with a very lukewarm feeling in terms of overall execution.

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Old 06-09-2011, 10:35 AM   #62
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I can kinda see that he would, in the early days at least. They are different sides of the same coin in terms ideology. But Xavier is still helping out mutant children with nowhere to go, and I think Magneto respects that.
Yeah, he respects what he does, but is it enough to go and help him build cerebro and locate and recruit mutants.

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I've watched X1, X2, X3 again (refuse to ever watch wolverine again) and I have to say my enjoyment was definately enhanced by previously seeing first class.

I will also add X3 is nowhere NEAR as bad as most people make out, and the line; 'I'm sorry my dear but your not one of us anymore' is one of the most powerful lines in the franchise, including first class.
See I actually thought that line was out of character for Erik. Given the history him and Mystique share and the fact that his parents were humans I would think that he would be more sympathetic. Plus she just "saved" his life. I thought that was totally out of character for him and made him seem cruel and evil, which he really isn't.

Also, when he becomes "human" at the end and says, "What have I done," and runs away was also out of character IMO.

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The thing is, X3 has some truly genius moments and some great little pieces here and there as far as dialogue and action goes but it almost gets negated entirely due to all of the other shortcomings in the movie, so it leaves you with a very lukewarm feeling in terms of overall execution.
This. Exactly how I felt about X2.

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Old 06-09-2011, 11:03 AM   #63
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The thing is, X3 has some truly genius moments and some great little pieces here and there as far as dialogue and action goes but it almost gets negated entirely due to all of the other shortcomings in the movie, so it leaves you with a very lukewarm feeling in terms of overall execution.
That how I felt about SM3

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See I actually thought that line was out of character for Erik. Given the history him and Mystique share and the fact that his parents were humans I would think that he would be more sympathetic. Plus she just "saved" his life. I thought that was totally out of character for him and made him seem cruel and evil, which he really isn't.
I thought the line was totally in character for magneto as was the line 'she used to be beautiful' and this view was further enhanced upon watching X:FC.
if his follows become human he would blank them (regardless of past association), he doesn't give a s*** about humans.


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Old 06-09-2011, 11:22 AM   #64
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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I thought the line was totally in character for magneto as was the line 'she used to be beautiful' and this view was further enhanced upon watching X:FC.
if his follows become human he would blank them (regardless of past association), he doesn't give a s*** about humans.
See the beautiful part I don't have a problem with, and that is in character after seeing FC and even before seeing FC.

However, I feel that he does give a S**** about humans because his mom and his dad were obviously humans as were his fellow Jews. I think he is just worried that humans in power will try to kill his mutant brother-in.

To just leave Mystique like that made him seem real cold thought. I would have rather for him to take her with them or said I'm sorry, but I can't let you go on as it would be too dangerous for her. Or arguing with the other mutants about letting her proceed with them and then telling her she should go.

After seeing their relationship it makes it harder to believe that he would just leave her there IMO.

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Old 06-09-2011, 11:35 AM   #65
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See the beautiful part I don't have a problem with, and that is in character after seeing FC and even before seeing FC.

However, I feel that he does give a S**** about humans because his mom and his dad were obviously humans as were his fellow Jews. I think he is just worried that humans in power will try to kill his mutant brother-in.

To just leave Mystique like that made him seem real cold thought. I would have rather for him to take her with them or said I'm sorry, but I can't let you go on as it would be too dangerous for her. Or arguing with the other mutants about letting her proceed with them and then telling her she should go.

After seeing their relationship it makes it harder to believe that he would just leave her there IMO.

I think the only mutant magneto would show compassion for if they lost their power is charles. sure magneto's parents were human and had they lived he would feel a greater compassion for humans later in life but over the course of decades magneto has had next to no connection with humans and that is how magneto would see mystique, not a friend who has now lost her powers but as a human and he feels humans are beneath him to him it would be probably feel like making friends with a termite.

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Old 06-09-2011, 12:16 PM   #66
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Havok isn't Cyclops' brother, although we do know that they are/will be related in some way, particularly if FC does in fact remain at least marginally connected to the previous films despite Vaughn operating with the mindset of FC being a reboot, but the motif of the Summers' men taking potshots at or making comments about costuming is one that will work regardless of what the relationship between Alex and Scott ends up being.
No. One. Ever. Said. This. Ever. You're misinterpreting something Bryan Singer said in response to a question. What was said was "it wouldn't be physically fit for them to be brothers" and "[so] we've taken some liberties there". They included Scott and Alex in the film, and showed Scott at a suitable age for them to be brothers, that would be taking liberties.


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Old 06-09-2011, 12:17 PM   #67
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This. Exactly how I felt about X2.
and it was even worse for X3.

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Old 06-09-2011, 12:40 PM   #68
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The Magneto thing I feel is in character. There is a reason why he is the villain and Xavier isn't. Because as much as there may be justification for Magneto's actions, his actions are still wrong. The way he goes about things is wrong. I don't have a problem with Magneto abandoning Mystique at all.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:32 PM   #69
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See I actually thought that line was out of character for Erik. Given the history him and Mystique share and the fact that his parents were humans I would think that he would be more sympathetic. Plus she just "saved" his life. I thought that was totally out of character for him and made him seem cruel and evil, which he really isn't.
He abandoned Charles to die in the dam in X2. He can be cruel. He takes a very hard line on his own beliefs. Sacrifices are necessary to achieve his goals. When Mystique became the thing he hated most (human) and not part of the mutant 'Homo superior' race, he would clearly want to move on, callous though it seems. That's because he is callous.

Quote:
Also, when he becomes "human" at the end and says, "What have I done," and runs away was also out of character IMO.
I hated that line of dialogue and him scrambling away over the wreckage with his hair flying all over the place. It was meant to show being made human and rendered powerless had humbled him and made him regret what he had done and feel the same as the humans he hated. But it wasn't done in the best way. I'm not sure how it could otherwise have been done though, it just seemed a bit corny.

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Old 06-09-2011, 07:52 PM   #70
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He abandoned Charles to die in the dam in X2. He can be cruel. He takes a very hard line on his own beliefs. Sacrifices are necessary to achieve his goals. When Mystique became the thing he hated most (human) and not part of the mutant 'Homo superior' race, he would clearly want to move on, callous though it seems. That's because he is callous.
See I disagree. I don't think he left Charles there to die at all. For one he didn't know the dam was about to break. Secondly, he knew the X-Men would find and save him because even he as some level of confidence in Xavier's students.

Knowing how he feels about his mother, father, and fellow Jews I don't see him really hating humans so much that he would turn his back on his life long friend/ally Mystique that saved his life just moments before. Yeah, he can be callous, but to a degree.

Sorry, I just think they jumped from an Agenda having Mags to a screw you you're not one of us now Mags in a very poor way. Even Mags has some loyalty. Heck he is even loyal to Charles in many instances and they go head to head quite often.


I hated that line of dialogue and him scrambling away over the wreckage with his hair flying all over the place. It was meant to show being made human and rendered powerless had humbled him and made him regret what he had done and feel the same as the humans he hated. But it wasn't done in the best way. I'm not sure how it could otherwise have been done though, it just seemed a bit corny.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it shows that he is now an ordinary human and an old fool, but him just cowering away was weird to see even if he was depowered.

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Old 06-09-2011, 07:56 PM   #71
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

Just thought of one:

Moira sitting beside Beast at Xaviers funeral...

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Old 06-09-2011, 07:59 PM   #72
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See I disagree. I don't think he left Charles there to die at all. For one he didn't know the dam was about to break. Secondly, he knew the X-Men would find and save him because even he as some level of confidence in Xavier's students.
I just rewatched X2 and I was right. Contrary to what others have said, there's absolutely NOTHING that indicates that Magneto and Mystique knew the dam was ruptured.

They didn't leave Xavier to die.

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Old 06-09-2011, 08:00 PM   #73
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Default Re: First Class and how it changes certain perceptions of lines/scenes from the Trilo

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Just thought of one:

Moira sitting beside Beast at Xaviers funeral...


Moira: So you're sure I met this Xavier guy? cause all I remember is some trees and a kiss.

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Old 06-09-2011, 10:11 PM   #74
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When Azaezel was dropping agents, I thought it was brutal, but I had a sense of deja vu. Just put my finger on it. Watching X2 now and Nightcrawler does the same thing in the Oval Office to a guard, just from ceiling height and so not lethal.

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Old 06-10-2011, 12:14 AM   #75
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Just thought of one:

Moira sitting beside Beast at Xaviers funeral...

I may have missed something but I thought Moira was pretending to be mind wiped while she was being interrogated.

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