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Old 04-14-2015, 01:20 PM   #1
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Default Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

Hi, all. It's been a long time since I last posted here, but was inspired to do so after catching parts of Days of Future Past over the weekend on HBO (including the very end of the film). Back in the days leading up to the film's release, I was heavily involved in championing what I believed to be the definitive chronology for the franchise and the definitive statement of how everything fit together, but I now have to admit that I'm confused as to what the final word is on how everything fits together. I understand and realize that DoFP pulled a "Star Trek 2009" and created an alternate reality, but I'm not entirely sure what the new 'status quo' is as far as how said new reality works in relation to the 'old' reality, and was wondering if somebody could provide me with a definitive answer to the question.

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Old 04-14-2015, 07:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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... what the new 'status quo' is as far as how said new reality works in relation to the 'old' reality, and was wondering if somebody could provide me with a definitive answer to the question.
There's no such thing.

Although there's debate, the way I see it, DOFP closes the chapter on the "old reality" and opens a "new reality" to explore (between 1983 and 2023). Hence Xavier's concluding line:

"The past: a new and uncertain world. A world of endless possibilities and infinite outcomes. Countless choices define our fate: each choice, each moment, a moment in the ripple of time. Enough ripple, and you change the tide... for the future is never truly set." (my emphasis)

Hence all the new casting announcements and the fact that there are apparently no plans to put the original cast back together or to keep Hugh Jackman in the role of Wolverine for much longer.


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Old 04-14-2015, 07:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

I'm not sure that answers the question, but there are two other things:

1. Apocalypse appearing (for the first time in the 20th century?) is assumed to be a result of the X-Men changing the past - like the concept of "course-correction" from Lost. They avoided an apocalyptic future but caused another apocalypse to come about sooner, because their fate is inevitable.

2. Characters that are not in the "new" 2023 at the end of DOFP are fair game: Jubilee, Nightcrawler, Angel, Psylocke, etc. can be born whenever/die whenever.


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Old 04-14-2015, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

Chronology/continuity of the series:

Original/Unaltered Timeline:

First Class
XO: Wolverine
X1
X2
X3
The Wolverine
DOFP.

Loose continuity, but this is more or less the correct order.

Altered timeline:

First Class
DOFP
Apocalypse.

Basically, the time-traveling aspect of DOFP has changed the course of history and altered the timeline. Due to time-travel, Apocalypse awakens much earlier than he should have/would have in the Original/Unaltered timeline.

And now, the original timeline exists...but only in Wolverine's consciousness. No one else has any knowledge of what actually came before or the unaltered timeline.

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Old 04-14-2015, 07:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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There's no such thing.
There has to be, even if it's that old movies don't matter and are being completely ignored (which is not a stance I personally agree with).

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Old 04-14-2015, 10:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

Why can't it just be up to the viewer? I don't need everything spelled out for me to enjoy things.

The way I see it, everything HAS happened. But now things CAN happen differently. And that's all I need for my answer.

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Old 04-14-2015, 10:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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Why can't it just be up to the viewer?
Because the writers' intent is going to completely inform how the franchise develops going forward.

Knowing what the definitive status in the minds of the PtBs is as far as the original timeline is concerned relative to the new timeline is absolutely crucial to determining how we as viewers approach X-Men Apocalypse and any other films set in said new timeline.

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Old 04-14-2015, 10:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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There has to be, even if it's that old movies don't matter and are being completely ignored (which is not a stance I personally agree with).
Fox left the door open for the original cast to either keep them rolling OR let them rest in peace and keep only the new cast, possibly ignoring continuity.


The way I see it, it depends on when Deadpool is set.
Deadpool - is casting Colossus, whom is seen at the end of DOFP in 2023 in his 30s/40s. If Fox sets Deadpool closer to the 80s or 90s, they're ignoring Colossus's appearance in the conclusion to DOFP (and the OT in general is done, which means Rogue, Iceman, and Shadowcat are fair game for recasts).


It's really up in the air right now, which is why I'd say there's no definitive answer. Also, recall that the writer guy said that one character (1 and not 3) could be born earlier in time post DOFP, and that seems to have been Angel. Psylocke and Jubilee could very well be from the future and X-Force could be set in 2013. But it's impossible to tell without a couple of scripts.

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Old 04-15-2015, 11:07 AM   #9
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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Because the writers' intent is going to completely inform how the franchise develops going forward.

Knowing what the definitive status in the minds of the PtBs is as far as the original timeline is concerned relative to the new timeline is absolutely crucial to determining how we as viewers approach X-Men Apocalypse and any other films set in said new timeline.
Why are we mere mortals, geeks and fanboys expected to provide the definitive answer?

I'm not sure why you are expecting such definitive answers from us on a forum. Those answers come from Singer or Kinberg.

And even Singer is known for his vagueness on such matters. He even forgot that his own X1 had Xavier and Magneto meeting when the Prof was 17, and contradicted that in First Class.

If there is an answer, we don't have it on here. And I really doubt there is anything so definitive. This series lumbers from one film to the next, throwing out what it wants to suit the current story being told.

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Old 04-15-2015, 12:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

I was hoping that people who've seen the film would be able to tell me what the definitive answer is as far as the PTBs are concerned, or else point me in the direction of somewhere I could find said answer.

However, it sounds as if there's not as definitive an answer to this whole situation as I was expecting there to be.

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Old 04-15-2015, 02:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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I was hoping that people who've seen the film would be able to tell me what the definitive answer is as far as the PTBs are concerned, or else point me in the direction of somewhere I could find said answer.

However, it sounds as if there's not as definitive an answer to this whole situation as I was expecting there to be.
We're going to have to wait to see what Singer/Kinberg say in any interviews.

But, as far as I see it, DoFP was a fond farewell to all the other films aside from First Class.

Remember, though, that First Class was already its own thing to some extent as it contradicted things in the original films. Now anything is fair game, including recasts of Angel, Jubilee, etc.

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Old 04-15-2015, 03:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

I mean, I agree... we kinda have to wait and see.

Did the Liberty Island sequence take place?
Did Wolverine join Weapon X?
How old are the Angel/Rogue/etc. characters?

X:A might shed some more light

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Old 04-15-2015, 03:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

I'm hoping comic-con, too.

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Old 04-16-2015, 01:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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First Class was already its own thing to some extent as it contradicted things in the original films.
Despite some retcons, First Class was unequivocally meant to be a direct prequel to Singer's original X-Men film.

Since we apparently don't have the definitive answer I was looking for, I'm going to treat the original reality and the alternate reality for this series exactly as I do the two realities in the Star Trek franchise, and start calling the universe of X1-The Wolverine "Universe A" and the X:A and beyond universe "Universe B".

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Old 04-16-2015, 01:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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Despite some retcons, First Class was unequivocally meant to be a direct prequel to Singer's original X-Men film.
No it wasn't. There was nothing unequivocal about it. The word reboot was also thrown around in several interviews.

Matthew Vaughn: "My main goal was to make as good a film that could stand on its own two feet regardless of all the other films. However I thought anything that worked in all the other movies, and I could have some fun with nodding towards, I would. But my main rule was, ‘You know what, we’re trying to reboot and start a whole new X-Men franchise’ and therefore, making a film work on its own two feet was far more important than trying to be referential to the prior movies.

Source: http://www.slashfilm.com/film-interv...atthew-vaughn/

But when Vaughn was asked by MTV if First Class was within the franchise continuity he said: "Yeah, I would say absolutely so."
Source: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/08/03...ts-continuity/

But the first quote is the key one, I think. They clearly tried to have their cake and eat it, rebooting but linking it in as well. I say that because several parts of First Class do not fit the continuity, such as the line in X1 about Xavier being 17 when he met Magneto, X1's Xavier being caught unawares by Magneto's psi-blocking helmet, and Xavier's total lack of mention of Mystique in the original trilogy. Plus the fact that Xavier was standing/walking at the end of Origins, and yet paralysed at the end of First Class, and the new Emma Frost.

Regardless of fan theorising to explain those things, it's clear that First Class ignored some elements of the original films in order to tell its story. So there's nothing unequivocal about it.

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Old 04-16-2015, 02:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

Vaughn was saying one thing, while Singer was saying something else, and Singer's comments ended up being the unequivocally definitive answer regarding FC's prequel status.

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"There is no "supposed to be." It's an adaptation, a word that literally means change. Why bother making a new version if it doesn't offer a fresh approach?" - Christopher L. Bennett
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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Vaughn was saying one thing, while Singer was saying something else, and Singer's comments ended up being the unequivocally definitive answer regarding FC's prequel status.
Singer isn't a person to be be definitive or to be tied to the continuity of previous works. For other evidence, see Superman Returns which ignored the third and fourth Superman movies (yes, they were risible but they still exist) and introduced a child. He even spoke in interviews of regarding the first two films as some sort of "vague history" - and yet rehashed the villain plot of the first Superman movie and other elements from that film.

It fell into all sorts of grey areas. "Vague" is indeed the word.

First Class is the same sort of thing. The previous films seem to be some sort of vague history (hence the retcons) with bits that have been or are being redone, retconned and forgotten, and yet a sense of being somehow part of the same world. It's all a bit muddled.

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Old 04-16-2015, 03:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

I don't remember the specific occasions now, but know of more than one instance of Singer definitively calling First Class a Prequel to X-Men during promotion for it.

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Old 04-18-2015, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

Here is problem.Some get into hazy fits if any line of dialogue isn't perfectly abided by.Something other franchises and tv shows aren't held to.

FC was defently promated as prequel to X-Men.Trailers,DVD/blu-ray special features,and bryan Singer interviews all pointed to it.Problem was matthew vaughn would say different things depending on who he was talking to

best way to view things this way-Contunity 1

FC
Origins
X-Men
X2
Last stand
The wolverine
Days of future past

Contunity 2

FC
DOFP
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Wolverine film
Gambit-still no idea when it takes place

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Old 04-18-2015, 12:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

No matter what vaughn said it still had prequel elements that he himself directed like the opening from X1 which they attempted to replicate






The cerebro and mystique effect is the same from my knowledge so it all does fit within the same universe even if there are some retcons and liberties taken which bryan himself has admitted too


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Old 04-19-2015, 06:50 PM   #21
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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Hi, all. It's been a long time since I last posted here, but was inspired to do so after catching parts of Days of Future Past over the weekend on HBO (including the very end of the film). Back in the days leading up to the film's release, I was heavily involved in championing what I believed to be the definitive chronology for the franchise and the definitive statement of how everything fit together, but I now have to admit that I'm confused as to what the final word is on how everything fits together. I understand and realize that DoFP pulled a "Star Trek 2009" and created an alternate reality, but I'm not entirely sure what the new 'status quo' is as far as how said new reality works in relation to the 'old' reality, and was wondering if somebody could provide me with a definitive answer to the question.
It's not an "alternate" reality a-la Star Trek 2009, it's a timeline rewriting.
You're welcomed to visit my site about the "X-Continuity".

http://x-continuity.blogspot.com

Said that, the original trilogy will not "happen" anymore.

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Old 04-20-2015, 01:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

^ Forgive me if I'm not going to take information from a fansite as 'gospel' on this, especially when what I've seen of DoFP makes it clear that we're very much dealing with a Star Trek 2009 situation and there doesn't seem to be an officially definitive answer to the question of whether or not the same rules that apply to Star Trek 2009 apply here.

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Old 04-20-2015, 06:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

There is no 'definitive'. Whatever the filmmakers might say, the films give us the clues that some things have been ignored, retconned, whatever. You just have to go with the flow.

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Old 04-20-2015, 07:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

It's clear from DOFP when Kitty tells wolverine if successful the last fifty years wouldn't have happened that it's an erasing of most of non-FC films of franchise leaving these as cannon In timeline going forward

1:Apocalypse In Days of Future Past's post credit scene
2rions from wolverine as boy to him and sabretooth on d-day
3:X-Men/First class magneto as boy in concertation
4:First class having xavier and mystique as kids and magneto with shaw
5:Wolverine In japan during WWII from the wolverine
6:Main events from First Class
7:1973 parts of DOFP from time of wolverine waking up In hotelroom
8:new future wolverine wakes up In at mansion

Anything else is gone now.Although to be even simply you could just say FC and DOFP cannon and ignore the rest of films.

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Old 04-20-2015, 07:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Definitive answer as to the chronology/continuity for the series?

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^ Forgive me if I'm not going to take information from a fansite as 'gospel' on this, especially when what I've seen of DoFP makes it clear that we're very much dealing with a Star Trek 2009 situation and there doesn't seem to be an officially definitive answer to the question of whether or not the same rules that apply to Star Trek 2009 apply here.
The ending of DOFP is your "official answer". It's rewriting. The original timeline doesn't exist anymore. Don't forget we're talking about Kitty's mutant powers, not a mysterious black hole.

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