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View Poll Results: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?
Yes; time to start with a completely fresh slate 46 60.53%
No; it SHOULD be connected to the past films in some way 29 38.16%
Other/I Don't Know 1 1.32%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2011, 12:58 PM   #51
marvelrobbins
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

I hate reboots.It Is lack of originality.Batman Is the exception not the rule.And If they rebbot again after the Dark Knight Rises I won't be In the audence(Just Like I won't for Man of steel) I liked the Incredible Hulk better than Hulk but what did they accomplise
there.It IS obvious It started as a loose sequel to Hulk.Was a bond reboot really necssary.They could easily just had danial Craig take over just as they had done before.
We don't know If The Amazing Spider-Man will be any better than rami's films but they could have just recast like what was done with James Bond without going Into reboot.
Fox Is taking a story that would work as a Daredevil sequel and do a reboot with It.
They rebooted jack Ryan with The Sum of all fears and Is rebooting again with next film.
X-Men Is the closest thing to a Bond series(before Casino Royale) debate over Last Stand and Wolverine In Canon not withstanding it Is longest running Comic Book films Series now.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

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Originally Posted by marvelrobbins View Post
I hate reboots.It Is lack of originality.Batman Is the exception not the rule.And If they rebbot again after the Dark Knight Rises I won't be In the audence(Just Like I won't for Man of steel) I liked the Incredible Hulk better than Hulk but what did they accomplise
there.It IS obvious It started as a loose sequel to Hulk.Was a bond reboot really necssary.They could easily just had danial Craig take over just as they had done before.
We don't know If The Amazing Spider-Man will be any better than rami's films but they could have just recast like what was done with James Bond without going Into reboot.
Fox Is taking a story that would work as a Daredevil sequel and do a reboot with It.
They rebooted jack Ryan with The Sum of all fears and Is rebooting again with next film.
X-Men Is the closest thing to a Bond series(before Casino Royale) debate over Last Stand and Wolverine In Canon not withstanding it Is longest running Comic Book films Series now.
I agree 100%

What is the point of a reboot? These movies aren't drastically different than the movies they are rebooting, they are nothing more than a lack of creativity.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight worked because they were drastically different takes on the Batman fiction - following horrendous attempts that made Batman nothing more than a joke. Nolan justified his franchise by actually doing something different with it.

I don't see The Amazing Spiderman doing anything drastically different from Raimi's films. The Incredible Hulk didn't do anything drastically different from Ang Lee's film. I don't even consider Casino Royale a reboot. It's a recasting of the lead character.

Reboots are dumb. There's a reason why I call them a Hollywood plague.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

The one thing a reboot would achieve is to enable the Original Five to appear.This would satiate the various militant fanboys online who can't cope with First Class and are badmouthing it on every possible commenting section...

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

What I like about it is it can be viewed as a prequel but they could totally take it in its own direction now aswell.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:36 PM   #55
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

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The one thing a reboot would achieve is to enable the Original Five to appear.This would satiate the various militant fanboys online who can't cope with First Class and are badmouthing it on every possible commenting section...
I still won't be surprised if Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Jean and or Nightcrawler don't start to reappear (well the first three already did). These films certainly offer them the opportunity to tell more stories with those characters. Matthew Vaughn has already stated some desires to "reboot". I think of this film as a "preboot": it can be fit into the original trilogy or not, giving the director enough freedom to go in a new direction if he so chooses.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:36 PM   #56
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

I remain fan of Tim Burton batman films but Nolan did something different with batman.It helped that batman Begins came out 8 years after batman and Robin

I don't hold the Rami SPider-man films to high place like X-Men,X2,and First Class so I
am willing to see The Amazing SPider-Man but the same producers who approved of SPider-man 3 are producers of Th Amazing Spider-Man.Alvin Sargeant who wrote final drafts of both Spider-Man 2 and 3 did a rewrite of The Amazing Spider-Man.Now my feeling Is If you threw out contunity you need a mostly new team.In Some ways The Amzing Spider-Man with the producers and writers Is almost being treated as just another film.

With Casino Royale the Bond producers tried to have it both ways treating It as both reboot and going back to show you how Bond Became Bond.

It's getting to the point If a film doesn't fullfill a studio's expections 100 percent they will just reboot it.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

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I remain fan of Tim Burton batman films but Nolan did something different with batman.It helped that batman Begins came out 8 years after batman and Robin

I don't hold the Rami SPider-man films to high place like X-Men,X2,and First Class so I
am willing to see The Amazing SPider-Man but the same producers who approved of SPider-man 3 are producers of Th Amazing Spider-Man.Alvin Sargeant who wrote final drafts of both Spider-Man 2 and 3 did a rewrite of The Amazing Spider-Man.Now my feeling Is If you threw out contunity you need a mostly new team.In Some ways The Amzing Spider-Man with the producers and writers Is almost being treated as just another film.

With Casino Royale the Bond producers tried to have it both ways treating It as both reboot and going back to show you how Bond Became Bond.

It's getting to the point If a film doesn't fullfill a studio's expections 100 percent they will just reboot it.
And I hate that mentality. I don't want to see X-Men fall victim to that mistreatment.

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:57 PM   #58
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

me either.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:06 PM   #59
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

With the Wolverine coming and the underperformance of First Class the next full X-Men
film will probally be X4.Untill I hear otherwise I am not counting on a First Class sequel
no matter how well I liked it.

It just amazes me with redoing the opening scene from X-Men,The Hugh Jackman and
Rebecca romijn cameos,using changes from comcis that Bryan Singer did In first film(The
Idea of Xavier and Magneto starting school or X-Men together comes from film just like
the Mystique and Magneto's relationship and Mystique being Magneto's right hand) and several things that connects to earlier films and people still want to call it reboot.The
entire point of reboot IS to forget and Ignore everything that happened before.Star Trek was a Time Travel causing alternate reality which Is why they have connections to past.
And those wanting a Days of future past film to change history must not have read the story.The entire point of It In story was to alter a possable future not to rewrite exsisting canon.

And before people say bring In J.J. Abrams and say he Is better than Bryan Singer.Star Trek worked because you had Alex Kurtman,Robert Orci,and Damon Lindeloff on It.They all know Star Trek.And may I remind people Abrams wrote a god awful Superman script
which was total reimaging of Superman lore with Lex Luthor as alien,Kryptan not exploding,and Superman raised to be ashmed of his powers growing up.

As a X-Men fan who has large collection of comecs(ranging from beging to Joss Whedon's run on Astonshing X-men) I will take Keeping In Line with X-Men,X2,and First Class.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:07 PM   #60
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

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I think of this film as a "preboot": it can be fit into the original trilogy or not, giving the director enough freedom to go in a new direction if he so chooses.
Except he's already tied into certain things that are from the original films, such as the design of certain characters and locations, and certain characters like Wolverine. The new direction could change a few elements, but if they suddenly brought in characters we've already seen and change them entirely, people'd be confused as to whether this was rebooting and why it's been established in the same "universe".

I think continuing to change things, but still adhering to certain facets of the world, would just make things a bit of a mess. If you want to reboot, go whole hog.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:08 PM   #61
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

It concerns me that this film exists in a semi-reboot status, and I would be greatly upset if the series breaks away after all the effort to tie into Singer's world. If they want to start over, go the whole hog (as mentioned above)

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So you didn't like FC and you didn't like TLS, but you want want an X4? Or you think they should have just made X4 from what was shown in TLS or should have done TLS differently?
TLS was a botched film and an ugly place to continue from, but I'd much rather see this timeline redeemed than watch a series develop from a prequel which I didn't feel was much better.

A "2nd Class" will more than likely create a load more continuity issues and I no longer have faith that it'll be worth the headaches. With X4, you can push the franchise forward into bigger places (Sentinels etc) without any worry about how it affects other films.


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Old 06-09-2011, 02:17 PM   #62
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I feel it should have. I think both James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender were cast brilliantly as Prof X and Mageneto. They are young enough where a few films could've been made with these two. I think they should've gone more the Ultimate route where both Mags and Prof X where in their late 30's to early 40's. Then they could've had Storm, Jean, Cyke, Iceman and the more famous xmen in their late teens to 21 at the most. Wolverine of course would've still been older then all of them but younger. I have confidence with the good casting that went on in First Class that new actors would've been found for the roles of the Xmen we all know. The only problem I could see this route facing is that Magneto would no longer have the Nazi and Holocaust backstory. I think Ultimate magneto was the victim and witnessed a lot of mutant persecution.

A massive missed opportunity by FOX to reinvent the franchise must like Universal did with the Fast and Furious. After 5 films and 10 years and the latest one makes the most cash.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:22 PM   #63
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I think the next Xfilm will be X4. I'm curious about if FOX is gonna recast? Getting the cast back would be very costly. What ever they do I hope they keep Vaughan on board as director. Well Jackman an Berry still look pretty d@mn good. They are the oldest of the Xmen. Famke??? I haven't seen her in a while. While I would love to have Stewart and McKellan back I really want them to find a way to use McAvoy and Fassbender. Just wishful thinking though.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:24 PM   #64
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I totally believe this should be a complete reboot. Use the actors from this series to push it forward into the modern age. (like the ones chosen for the main characters that will be in the modern setting)

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:33 PM   #65
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Except he's already tied into certain things that are from the original films, such as the design of certain characters and locations, and certain characters like Wolverine. The new direction could change a few elements, but if they suddenly brought in characters we've already seen and change them entirely, people'd be confused as to whether this was rebooting and why it's been established in the same "universe".

I think continuing to change things, but still adhering to certain facets of the world, would just make things a bit of a mess. If you want to reboot, go whole hog.
WHO CARES.

Honestly continuity nightmares will hardly keep people out of the theaters. This film already had more than it's fair share of them, as did Wolverine. These are fanboy concerns. Clearly First Class will influence First Class 2 but I wouldn't be surprised if the other trilogy doesn't. X-Men's comic books have been one continuity nightmare after another since the 1960s, how's that been working out for them? Pretty good by my measure.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:37 PM   #66
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With the Wolverine coming and the underperformance of First Class the next full X-Men
film will probally be X4.

And before people say bring In J.J. Abrams and say he Is better than Bryan Singer.Star Trek worked because you had Alex Kurtman,Robert Orci,and Damon Lindeloff on It.They all know Star Trek.And may I remind people Abrams wrote a god awful Superman script
which was total reimaging of Superman lore with Lex Luthor as alien,Kryptan not exploding,and Superman raised to be ashmed of his powers growing up.
I agree on X4.

Abrams script for Superman was not god awful, it just wasn't the familiar Superman and that's the problem. Superman is a worn concept and WB and DC just refuse to move the character forward. Well to be fair when DC has tried the fans ****** and moan but then turn around and say Supes is dated and he needs to be reimagined. Go figure. Abrams tried by writing a reimagined origin and the fans went bananas. What he did took courage and he at least tried. It would've been a good movie if it were something else, but not a Superman film that people are familiar with.

J Michael Straczynski wrote wrote a terrific one shot Earth One Superman story and it retold and reimagined everything about Supes but keeping him familiar. If that version was to be adapted to film the fans would ****** and moan about that. It's just a no win. WB is gonna have to just balls out and do it.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:41 PM   #67
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I totally believe this should be a complete reboot. Use the actors from this series to push it forward into the modern age. (like the ones chosen for the main characters that will be in the modern setting)
How are they going to do that?? Bringing the film 50 years into the future but with Fassbender and McAvoy?? Using Make up to age then isn't going to do it. Fox had a shot and they missed. Should've just rebooted and went the Ultimate route. Them guys are too good to waste on just one film.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:46 PM   #68
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The one thing a reboot would achieve is to enable the Original Five to appear.This would satiate the various militant fanboys online who can't cope with First Class and are badmouthing it on every possible commenting section...
No, most of the fans are bad mouthing it because of continuity issues, time displaced characters, some Xmen are villians now, and characters like Shaw being merged with Sinister, instead of just using Sinister himself.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:47 PM   #69
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

Hiring younger actors and using age makeup worked for Watchmen.

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:48 PM   #70
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

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WHO CARES.

Honestly continuity nightmares will hardly keep people out of the theaters. This film already had more than it's fair share of them, as did Wolverine. These are fanboy concerns. Clearly First Class will influence First Class 2 but I wouldn't be surprised if the other trilogy doesn't. X-Men's comic books have been one continuity nightmare after another since the 1960s, how's that been working out for them? Pretty good by my measure.
I'm tired of people dismissing any concerns as "fanboy worries". They can screw around with continuity as much as they want, and yeah, most people probably won't remember whether a certain line of dialogue was contradicted or not. But I don't buy that the general audience will swallow any and every change they could make. If they suddenly said, "Oh look, it's Wolverine and it's not Hugh Jackman and it's a totally different story" I think you'd get more confusion or ambivalence from people going to see the movie.

Of course they can go in any direction they damn well please. But they've relied on a lot of built-in audience for the X-films, and tossing those people out by confusing them doesn't help them any. Fans of the Spider-Man comics may be inclined to go and see another movie, but why would a random filmgoer who's already seen the first three stories go and watch them being done again? Trying to continue these films while rebooting them at the same time does have the potential to dissolve into a mess.

If they wanted to have complete freedom, they should've just entirely rebooted. Diehard comic fans may always nitpick, but regardless, you need to make up your mind about what stories you're telling. People may not care about continuity, but I think they care about consistency - and if the filmmakers don't, they will end up overstaying their welcome.


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Old 06-09-2011, 02:58 PM   #71
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I totally believe this should be a complete reboot. Use the actors from this series to push it forward into the modern age. (like the ones chosen for the main characters that will be in the modern setting)
I think this what they were gambling on with First Class.

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Old 06-09-2011, 04:41 PM   #72
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No, most of the fans are bad mouthing it because of continuity issues
Most of those are minor, to be honest. The overall feeling is of one large story being told, even with the discrepancies.

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time displaced characters
The X-Men have to exist in a world where time passes. That doesn't really happen in the comics - in the past 50 years of comics, hardly any time has passed. But that can't apply in the real world. They can't exist in this 'time-free' zone where everyone stays the same for ever. So you have to have a timeline. X1 stated 1944 and used Auschwitz, which is also part of Magneto's origin in the comics. If he hadn't been turned into a baby and then restored to a young man in the comics, he'd now be using a Stannah stairlift and Zimmer frame and drooling over his clothes in a care home for the elderly. This film used 1962, which follows on fine from the Auschwitz date. If Magneto existed back then, then so did Xavier, and the rest sort of flows on from there. You have to put the characters at some point in the timeline, they can't be ageless and timeless and all exist in some unidentified 'present' with no date and no year and no ageing.

Quote:
some Xmen are villians now
Do you really care that Angel Salvadore is now a villain? She is so minor that hardly anyone had heard of her, even on the X-forums. People kept asking if it was Pixie, or if they'd changed the Warren Worthington Angel into a woman. So she is only a minor character. In the animated series, Gambit and Colossus were some of Magneto's cronies, and this film didn't go that far from canon...

Quote:
and characters like Shaw being merged with Sinister, instead of just using Sinister himself.
He also had elements of Bishop in the re-channelling of the energy! Does it really matter though? Shaw's power was made more visual and for him to tie more to Magneto, he was a reinvented version of Schmidt. Kevin Bacon looks more like Sinister, but i'm not sure there was a deliberate merging off Sinister in there.

There's also been merging of characters in these films, just to prevent overcrowding on screen. i had no issue with Jean Grey taking on Beast's scientist/doctor role in X1, with Callisto being a bit of Caliban and Quicksilver in X3, or with Jason Stryker/Mastermind in X2, or the other mergers that took place. They have to make some economies.

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Old 06-09-2011, 05:30 PM   #73
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

I just got back from seeing the film for myself (I previously hadn't, but was still participating in discussions here and elsewhere), and I can unequivocally give a 'yes' answer to this question.

The film CAN fit in with the existing films - to a degree - but, IMO, works much better as a reboot, particularly given the final two major scene sequences.

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Old 06-09-2011, 06:57 PM   #74
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Default Re: Should X-Men: First Class have been a Reboot ENTIRELY?

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Originally Posted by henzINNIT View Post
It concerns me that this film exists in a semi-reboot status, and I would be greatly upset if the series breaks away after all the effort to tie into Singer's world. If they want to start over, go the whole hog (as mentioned above)



TLS was a botched film and an ugly place to continue from, but I'd much rather see this timeline redeemed than watch a series develop from a prequel which I didn't feel was much better.

A "2nd Class" will more than likely create a load more continuity issues and I no longer have faith that it'll be worth the headaches. With X4, you can push the franchise forward into bigger places (Sentinels etc) without any worry about how it affects other films.
It wasn't a botched film. XMOW was a botched film. The Last Stand was a sequel that just said ftw we're doing it lol.

I'm all for an X4 & X5, but wouldn't mind seeing a 2nd class sans Scott and Jean. There are so many characters they can introduce.

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Old 06-09-2011, 08:52 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by X-Maniac View Post
Most of those are minor, to be honest. The overall feeling is of one large story being told, even with the discrepancies.



The X-Men have to exist in a world where time passes. That doesn't really happen in the comics - in the
past 50 years of comics, hardly
any time has passed. But that can't
apply in the real world. They can't
exist in this 'time-free' zone where
everyone stays the same for ever.
So you have to have a timeline.
X1 stated 1944 and used
Auschwitz, which is also part of
Magneto's origin in the comics. If
he hadn't been turned into a baby
and then restored to a young man
in the comics, he'd now be using a
Stannah stairlift and Zimmer frame
and drooling over his clothes in a care home for the elderly. This film used 1962, which follows on fine from the Auschwitz date. If Magneto existed back then, then so did Xavier, and the rest sort of flows on from there. You have to put the characters at some point in the timeline, they can't be ageless and timeless and all exist in some unidentified 'present' with no date and no year and no ageing.



Do you really care that Angel Salvadore is now a villain? She is so minor that hardly anyone had heard of her, even on the X-forums. People kept asking if it was Pixie, or if they'd changed the Warren Worthington Angel into a woman. So she is only a minor character. In the animated series, Gambit and Colossus were some of Magneto's cronies, and this film didn't go that far from canon...



He also had elements of Bishop in the re-channelling of the energy! Does it really matter though? Shaw's power was made more visual and for him to tie more to Magneto, he was a reinvented version of Schmidt. Kevin Bacon looks more like Sinister, but i'm not sure there was a deliberate merging off Sinister in there.

There's also been merging of characters in these films, just to prevent overcrowding on screen. i had no issue with Jean Grey taking on Beast's scientist/doctor role in X1, with Callisto being a bit of Caliban and Quicksilver in X3, or with Jason Stryker/Mastermind in X2, or the other mergers that took place. They have to make some economies.
Well if you're gonna alter the characters so much then why call it Xmen or whatever title that is being made. That's my take on it. I'm all for changes to adapt and make better translation to the big screen. Also when is say time displaced characters I speak of mutants like Emma or Havok being thrust into the time when Prof X was starting out.

Angel is a minor character but she was part of the Xmen. Their are too many Xmen villains and their mutant henchmen to make X members villains. Psylocke and Multiple Man were put on Mags side in X3. Come on man! I'd hardly call Psylocke a minor character given her history with the Xmen. If it works for u then it's fine. It just doesn't work for me cause see no logical reason for the changes and not using actual mutants that have battled the Xmen. Shaw's power tweaking was fine and made for a better visual depiction of his power. However he should've been Shaw pure and simple. If they wanted to use Sinister then use Sinister. I'd hardly call making Jean a Dr a merging of Beast. They was just adding the team Dr in Jean Grey but she wasn't doing anything that Beast outright was known for doing in The comics. Their's a difference making Jean a Dr then having Shaw be the one as opposed to Sinister to be conducting experiments working for the Nazis and having a connection to Magneto. That is very much a difference.


Last edited by Nokio; 06-09-2011 at 09:01 PM.
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