The Dark Knight Trilogy is essentially an Elseworlds story

[CapedCrusader14]

Thank you for delivering a royal ass-kicking Joker, that was great.

[747]

Of course it's a kind of an "elseworlds" story. Thought that was clear from the beginning. Which I love, cause I love elseworlds, especially when – even though in a fresh context – they still manage to capture the characters in a great way.

I love the mythos, the characters and all that. But I'm also very interested in different takes and versions, and is far from a purist. I'm more interested in great stories than regular continuity. Purism is uninteresting.

[CapedCrusader14]

Purism is boring.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader14

Purism is boring.

And continuity is very overrated. Unless you capitalize in the legacy, most times its actually an obstacle that creates convoluted messes. And continuity needs to be utilized to achieve a certain goal. You cant simply keep going on and on and on. Well you can , but then you create the sort of crap products that end up getting released (in comics).

Movies adaptations are always different entities. Just like some authors runs. Separating things to elseworld , or canon vs non canonical is pretty stupid. That's the beauty of these larger than life characters , and the huge legacy they have. There's an enormous latitude in which they can be adapted.

[CapedCrusader14]

Completely agree with you there. A good example of what you're talking about is Iron Man 2. That's a classic case of a series seemingly going on and on. Hopefully, Iron Man 3 can fix that.

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader14

Completely agree with you there. A good example of what you're talking about is Iron Man 2. That's a classic case of a series seemingly going on and on. Hopefully, Iron Man 3 can fix that.

IM2 was oh so disappointing following the successful first movie, which I honestly believe is the best Marvel film so far together with The Incredible Hulk. I really hope IM3 can make up for the hugely disappointing second one.

[CapedCrusader14]

In terms of Marvel Studios films, Iron Man is definitely the best one.

But I'd say X-Men or X-Men 2 are the best Marvel films in general to me.

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader14

In terms of Marvel Studios films, Iron Man is definitely the best one.

But I'd say X-Men or X-Men 2 are the best Marvel films in general to me.

Yeah, Marvel Studios is what I meant.

[Gotham's Knight]

Originally Posted by The Joker

That's you. For 95% of Batman's comic book existence he doesn't kill people arbitrarily the way Keaton's Batman did. He's Batman not The Punisher.



But making the Joker the killer of Batman's parents and a love sick stalker of Vicki Vale, Penguin a baby killing sewer freak who lives with circus people is perfectly in tune with the comics, and Batman and Gordon hardly sharing a single scene together was more in tune with the comics.

Not.



It's sure not looking that way;

http://www.empireonline.com/features...-knight-effect

http://www.cleveland.com/movies/inde...says_dark.html

http://collider.com/sam-mendes-skyfa...knight/204523/

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=89076

http://nerdbastards.com/2012/05/02/k...es-in-general/

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.co...atman-trilogy/



http://www.justpressplay.net/article...q-trilogy.html

http://www.jokerfans.blogspot.ie/

http://www.scifimoviepage.com/upcomi...ht_comics.html

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.ie/2011...s-part-vi.html

http://www.batman-online.com/forum/i...hp?topic=271.0

http://www.batman-online.com/feature...k-knight-rises

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.ie/2011...es-part-v.html

Grant Morrison on Ledger's Joker and Nolan's Batman movies;



http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/04...s-joker-diary/

Can you find any DC comic writer saying anything like that about Burton's or Schumacher's movies? Nolan's movies have been far more faithful to the comics overall than Burton's ever were.

I had to make an account (long time lurker) just to respond to this. Well done, I agree 110%.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

I had to make an account (long time lurker) just to respond to this. Well done, I agree 110%.

Wow, thank you

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

That's you. For 95% of Batman's comic book existence he doesn't kill people arbitrarily the way Keaton's Batman did. He's Batman not The Punisher.



But making the Joker the killer of Batman's parents and a love sick stalker of Vicki Vale, Penguin a baby killing sewer freak who lives with circus people is perfectly in tune with the comics, and Batman and Gordon hardly sharing a single scene together was more in tune with the comics.

Not.



It's sure not looking that way;

http://www.empireonline.com/features...-knight-effect

http://www.cleveland.com/movies/inde...says_dark.html

http://collider.com/sam-mendes-skyfa...knight/204523/

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=89076

http://nerdbastards.com/2012/05/02/k...es-in-general/

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.co...atman-trilogy/



http://www.justpressplay.net/article...q-trilogy.html

http://www.jokerfans.blogspot.ie/

http://www.scifimoviepage.com/upcomi...ht_comics.html

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.ie/2011...s-part-vi.html

http://www.batman-online.com/forum/i...hp?topic=271.0

http://www.batman-online.com/feature...k-knight-rises

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.ie/2011...es-part-v.html

Grant Morrison on Ledger's Joker and Nolan's Batman movies;



http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/04...s-joker-diary/

Can you find any DC comic writer saying anything like that about Burton's or Schumacher's movies? Nolan's movies have been far more faithful to the comics overall than Burton's ever were.

We don't agree much with TDKR, but damn....this was beautiful to read.

[Racer Morose]

I believe every superhero movie is basically a elseworld story (if it's proper to call them like that). they're self-contained versions of the character.

[BlueLightning]

"This is an IMAGINARY STORY… Aren't They All?"

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

I had to make an account (long time lurker) just to respond to this. Well done, I agree 110%.

I've just realized you're one of our more active posters now, and it was my post that caused you join.

You're like Harvey Dent. I brought you down to our level. It wasn't hard. See nerdiness as you know is like gravity. All it takes is a little post

[Gotham's Knight]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I've just realized you're one of our more active posters now, and it was my post that caused you join.

You're like Harvey Dent. I brought you down to our level. It wasn't hard. See nerdiness as you know is like gravity. All it takes is a little post

I'm going to have to stay away from exploding buildings and gasoline for a while, aren't I?

[Shikamaru]

I've always hated the false accusation that Nolan's Batman films are not true to Batman or that they're not faithful to the comics. This is false. The truth is that Nolan - at least in BB and TDK - has been more faithful to the comics than a lot of CBM's, arguably more faithful most CBM's out there. I'm not going to list all the things from the Nolan films that are taken from the comics since Joker has already done that and did a better job than I even would've. Instead, I'm going to cover the other side of the coin and point out all the major deviations from the comics in other beloved CBM's yet don't get anywhere as much crap as the Nolan films do. Brace yourselves. A long post is coming......

First, I need to establish some ground rules:
1) Every statement I make about the Nolan films applies to only BB and TDK unless I otherwise state that it applies to TDKR as well.
2) I'm not going to cover any CBM's that are generally considered to be bad for the liberties they took unless I address specific parts of the film at hand that are praised.
3) It is late at night here. People are sleeping, I have a loud keyboard, and I'm somewhat tired. There may be quite a few spelling + grammar mistakes as well as points I quickly rush through to briefly address.
4) These are all off the top of my head. I may miss out a few points.

Let's begin .

The MCU Films:
-Obadiah Stane of Stane International who was a rival of Tony Stark in the comics is turned into his mentor whose been working under Tony's father for a long time. Quite the deviation in comparison to Ra's, who at least took the alias of Henri Ducard - one of Bruce's actual mentors from the comics.
-KGB agent Emil Blonsky was turned into an American army soldier injected with the Super Soldier serum. The Abomination was also a far bigger visual deviation from his look in the comics than any villain in TDKT was. Literally the only thing they have in common visually is the size and the skin color.
-Giving Tony a romantic relationship with Pepper which has never been done before. Pepper's always been Happy Hogan's love interest. Compare this to Rachel Dawes, who at least had Julie Madison aspects incorporated into her and wasn't a problem because Bruce Wayne can literally have any love interest.
-Jarvis (Tony's Alfred in the comics) being turned into a supercomputer.
-Whiplash being nothing like the comics. The defense used is that he was an amalgamation of Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo. I'd like to point out that BB's Ra's al Ghul was an amalgamation of Henri Ducard and Ra's al Ghul but was still closer to the Ra's of the comics than movie Whiplash was.
-Justin Hammer being literally the exact opposite of the comics.

One is old/cold/serious/British while the other is young/energetic/funny/American. There wasn't a single character in the Nolan films (including TDKR) that was literally the exact opposite of who that character is in the comics, except maybe Loeb (who is a minor character, especially in comparison to Hammer).
-The Thor mythos being watered down to pseudo-science (Avengers kinda fixed this though).
-Thor's origin being completely changed from start to finish. Instead of the noble warrior with honor who was banished from and intentionally left Asgard because he was sick of thousands of years of pointless fighting and chose to protect the people of Earth, we got a spoiled douchebag kid that was banished to Earth for restarting a long-ended war.
-While on Earth, he treats everyone like a d!ck and has a superiority complex. Quite far from the warrior that chose to leave his home and put his life on the line for the mortals.
-Donald Blake is nowhere to be seen.
-Jane Foster being a scientist/explorer as opposed to a nurse.
-Loki being watered down and not as mischievous as he was supposed to be (though Avengers did fix this).
-Captain America's sidekick Bucky being turned into Steve's best friend who is also the same age as him. At least in TDKR (which like I said before, I don't count), "Robin" was much younger than Batman and Batman still had somewhat of a mentor impact on him. In fact, the age gap between John Blake and Bruce in TDKR is not that strange since Bruce is 40 in TDKR. In the comics, Dick Grayson/Nightwing is about the same age as Blake when Bruce is around the age of 40 (this is pre-New 52 I'm talking about).
-Red Skull being ridiculously watered down. In the comics, Red Skull was a menacing fascist bigot on the same level as Hitler and would have even surpassed him in those categories and overthrow him had it not been for Cap. Instead, all of those elements are removed from his character and is turned into a joke in order to have a family friendly film. A lot of you think Scarecrow was watered down but he was nothing compared to how watered down Red Skull was.
-Overall, the whole first Captain America film having very watered down and/or ignored dark elements of the comics and of the era.
-Black Widow not having the Russian version of the Super Soldier serum in her body (at least there is zero evidence of it yet).
-The BS they pulled with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. This one is obvious. It is also a lot worse when you consider that not only the Mandarin is Iron Man's archenemy but also that they literally did it to send a political message and for shock value, even if they had to sacrifice storytelling in order to do so.

I'm getting very tired so the rest will have to wait. I'll cover liberties taken in the Raimi Spider-Man films (my favorite part ), Fox's X-Men films, and in the Burton/Schumalker franchise whenever I can.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

I've always hated the false accusation that Nolan's Batman films are not true to Batman or that they're not faithful to the comics. This is false. The truth is that Nolan - at least in BB and TDK - has been more faithful to the comics than a lot of CBM's, arguably more faithful most CBM's out there.

I agree with your post and I enjoyed reading it, but you should say TDKR too. While you may not enjoy it, TDKR is very faithful in its own rights by following certain storylines from the comics, certain references such as Talia being Bane's real life Osito or Selina Kyle's love for hats and only taking its own direction with giving Bruce Wayne a happy ending(although he did end up with Selina Kyle, which has happened in the comics) and passing the mantle down to Robin John Blake. Let's be honest, The Dark Knight Rises ended up being 100x more faithful to the comics than Iron Man 3.

[The Joker]

Shikamaru, brilliant post

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

I'm going to have to stay away from exploding buildings and gasoline for a while, aren't I?

I'm not planning anything like that. Do I look like a guy with a plan?

[Racer Morose]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

I've always hated the false accusation that Nolan's Batman films are not true to Batman or that they're not faithful to the comics. This is false.

Nolan was as faithful/unfaithful as any other director. More than ones, less than others.

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I agree with your post and I enjoyed reading it, but you should say TDKR too. While you may not enjoy it, TDKR is very faithful in its own rights by following certain storylines from the comics, certain references such as Talia being Bane's real life Osito or Selina Kyle's love for hats and only taking its own direction with giving Bruce Wayne a happy ending(although he did end up with Selina Kyle, which has happened in the comics) and passing the mantle down to Robin John Blake. Let's be honest, The Dark Knight Rises ended up being 100x more faithful to the comics than Iron Man 3.

I never denied that TDKR borrows a lot from storylines in the comics. In fact, I've stated many times that TDKR's story borrows from storylines in the comics even more than BB and TDK did. But to me, what makes an adaptation valid is how it portrays the characters and if the essence of the characters is present there through the themes and messages about the characters that are presented. A Batman adaptation can have a story that borrows from all the storylines that exist in the comics and I would still not consider it a good portrayal of Batman if the characters are too out of character, if the essence of the character is not there, and if the themes/messages made about the character are all wrong. At the same time, you can make a Batman movie with a complete original story not based on any stories from the comics and I would still count it as an accurate portrayal if the character portrayals, essence, themes, and messages are all there.

I still haven't seen Iron Man 3 so I can't fully comment on that. Yes, they did pretty much screw up the Mandarin but it remains to be seen for me how well they handle everything else in the movie.

Also, I did say I was going to continue listing all the major changes that other franchises did but I got too lazy so I won't be doing that until I feel like it .

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

I never denied that TDKR borrows a lot from storylines in the comics. In fact, I've stated many times that TDKR's story borrows from storylines in the comics even more than BB and TDK did. But to me, what makes an adaptation valid is how it portrays the characters and if the essence of the characters is present there through the themes and messages about the characters that are presented. A Batman adaptation can have a story that borrows from all the storylines that exist in the comics and I would still not consider it a good portrayal of Batman if the characters are too out of character, if the essence of the character is not there, and if the themes/messages made about the character are all wrong. At the same time, you can make a Batman movie with a complete original story not based on any stories from the comics and I would still count it as an accurate portrayal if the character portrayals, essence, themes, and messages are all there.

I still haven't seen Iron Man 3 so I can't fully comment on that. Yes, they did pretty much screw up the Mandarin but it remains to be seen for me how well they handle everything else in the movie.

Also, I did say I was going to continue listing all the major changes that other franchises did but I got too lazy so I won't be doing that until I feel like it .

And I strongly feel TDKR did the portrayals of characters right and their essences, but that's just me

The Dark Knight Trilogy has a whole are tales that are very faithful to the lore.

But when you watch IM3, yah....you'll understand, lol. I can find comic panels that detail pairings of Bane and Talia, but no one can find a panel where the Mandarin is played by a doped-up actor while the real one is Aldrich Killian, haha.

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

And I strongly feel TDKR did the portrayals of characters right and their essences, but that's just me

The Dark Knight Trilogy has a whole are tales that are very faithful to the lore.

Fair enough. Let's agree to disagree.

But when you watch IM3, yah....you'll understand, lol. I can find comic panels that detail pairings of Bane and Talia, but no one can find a panel where the Mandarin is played by a doped-up actor while the real one is Aldrich Killian, haha.

Well, since Marvel seems to have an extreme fetish with making their comics more like the movies, chances are you may see that panel pretty soon. lol

[DACrowe]

It always seems strange to me how some fans feel forced to quantify and categorize in comic book terms an adaptation. Adaptation means ADAPTING something for its medium and filmmakers. No else thing needed to explain.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

Well, since Marvel seems to have an extreme fetish with making their comics more like the movies, chances are you may see that panel pretty soon. lol

Marvel has been doing that? The only thing I've seen that's been inspired from the films are the Chitauri's new look being based on TA...even bringing the Leviathan in the comics.

But, if that is the case...oh man how lousy that's gonna be...Mandarin turns out to be fake and Killian shows up and declares he was always the true Mandarin