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Old 06-11-2011, 04:47 PM   #1
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Default "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

2000's "X-Men" is the first film in the series. And yet, "First Class" does a better job of introducing the universe and its characters. "First Class" is a prequel, but don't you secretly wish it was a reboot? Matthew Vaughn got things started in the right track, unlike Bryan Singer.

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Old 06-11-2011, 04:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

Whatever. X-Men was great for it's time. The movie industry 11-12 years ago when that film was being made was in a different position than it is today. Comic book films have flooded the box office and become more successful, more accepted, more commonplace.

I think Singer took a very complex set of characters and made it into something that worked for the screen. And had he not done so, X-Men First Class wouldn't have happened.

And hey, I like First Class too... so I'm not hating.

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Old 06-11-2011, 04:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

I do wish it was a reboot, thats not a secret. I tend to agree that Vaughn did a much better job than Singer, but I was wondering if you could elaborate why you feel that way?

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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2000's "X-Men" is the first film in the series. And yet, "First Class" does a better job of introducing the universe and its characters. "First Class" is a prequel, but don't you secretly wish it was a reboot? Matthew Vaughn got things started in the right track, unlike Bryan Singer.
It's pretty hard to say "Matthew Vaughn got things started in the right track..." when we're 5 films into a billion+ dollar franchise. X-Men got things started on the right track, which is why Matthew Vaughn was able to do anything at all.

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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It's pretty hard to say "Matthew Vaughn got things started in the right track..." when we're 5 films into a billion+ dollar franchise. X-Men got things started on the right track, which is why Matthew Vaughn was able to do anything at all.
I disagree. It's the first X-Men movie...imo it's the film that always should have had the most potential...and the casting also was sure to bring in movie goers...Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman, and Patrick Stewart.

I love X1 because it's the first X-men movie...but it's underwhelming on so many levels. Action sequences poorly executed, very slow progression of the plot, weak script (in some areas), and the introduction of those unimaginative costumes. Also, most of the mutants in X1 seem severely under-powered with the exception of Mystique and Wolverine.

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

first class was a bigger movie with more money and time to make it. if singer had the time and money he could have made the big summer 2 hour movie that we just got 11 years ago. to say that X-men failed is wrong, it succeed were it should have failed. the movie had so many things going against it, a small budget, short shooting schedule, rush to find actors, and a studio that had little faith in the movie.

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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first class was a bigger movie with more money and time to make it. if singer had the time and money he could have made the big summer 2 hour movie that we just got 11 years ago. to say that X-men failed is wrong, it succeed were it should have failed. the movie had so many things going against it, a small budget, short shooting schedule, rush to find actors, and a studio that had little faith in the movie.
I'm thinking casting Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stuart couldn't have been budget friendly decisions? But I can definitely appreciate resource constraints.

I'm not saying the movie failed, I'm always going to welcome any X-Men movie (not to be confused with a Wolverine solo movie)...but it's severely underwhelming to me. I can watch X2 and X3 time and time again...but I can never bring myself to watching X1 again...

LOL Storms line to Toad is still probably the worst line I've ever witness in a comic book movie ever...that line is pure failure.

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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I disagree. It's the first X-Men movie...imo it's the film that always should have had the most potential...and the casting also was sure to bring in movie goers...Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman, and Patrick Stewart.
Except that no one knew who Hugh Jackman was back when X1 was first released...

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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I'm thinking casting Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stuart couldn't have been budget friendly decisions? But I can definitely appreciate resource constraints.
Consider the fact that Hugh Jackman was a complete unknown and Halle Berry hadn't yet won her Oscar. The casting was in no way a crush on the budget, save for the fact that it was an ensemble film.

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Old 06-11-2011, 05:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

Also that Patrick Stewart, while awesome, has never exactly been a bona fide box office movie star.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Consider the fact that Hugh Jackman was a complete unknown and Halle Berry hadn't yet won her Oscar. The casting was in no way a crush on the budget, save for the fact that it was an ensemble film.
Fair enough. I'm still willing to bet that Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stuart and Rebecca Romijn (forgot to mention her) more than likely received more money than the rest of the actors. Also, I'm pretty sure they cost more than if lesser known actors/actresses filled their respective roles. I believe Famke Janssen was also in a couple of movies before X-Men also.

Even before Halle's Oscar, she was still pretty accomplished.

Of course I don't have hard facts, but it seems logical that more of X1's budget went to paying for the acting talent than the budget of X-Men First Class.

If budget and resources is indeed what held X1 back, I just don't think the casting was as budget friendly as it could have been.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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first class was a bigger movie with more money and time to make it. if singer had the time and money he could have made the big summer 2 hour movie that we just got 11 years ago.
so how much time did he have?

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Also that Patrick Stewart, while awesome, has never exactly been a bona fide box office movie star.
Even if that is the case, Patrick Stewart clearly stands out with the audience X-Men targets (sci-fi crowd, comicbook fans). Star Trek anyone?

So I think it's a little coy to not see the pull he has being cast as Professor X. Lets not be silly now.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

What I loved about Patrick Stewart's casting is that everyone thought he would be the perfect choice for the role long before the movie went into production.


Also people didn't go to see Xmen because of the cast.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

I love the original X-Men trilogy (although I'm especially a fan of Singer's two efforts), but am another person who would like to see FC used as a reboot, primarily because I think there's so much more than can be done with the ideas and concepts that FC introduces if potential sequels to the film aren't beholden to what was established in earlier movies.

Even in only a limited 'advisory'/support role, production-wise, Singer's intimate understanding of and familiarity with the X-Men, their world, and what they represent shines through in FC, and there are certain storytelling decisions he makes that go a long way towards allowing FC to be a proper reboot to the franchise, even though it does serve pretty effectively as a prequel.

On topic, though, I have to disagree with the OP's argument, at least to a degree, and say that FC didn't do a better job of introducing the X-Men and their world than Singer's original film, but it did just as effective a job as that film.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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so how much time did he have?
That's a question I'd like to know as well.

X2 proves Singer is capable of making something truly special...but X1 leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I honestly don't think resources can really be used to excuse how X1 was handled...i mean, i hate to be that guy...but Singer had ample resources when he was chosen to direct Superman Returns and I'm still not sure how well that turned out...

I can say this, I do regret that Singer left X-men to work on Superman...I can appreciate X3 given the circumstances, but it would have been nice to see how Singer would have handled X3...I love the way Singer approached the Phoenix in X2...I still would like to see him progress with the Phoenix storyline.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Even if that is the case, Patrick Stewart clearly stands out with the audience X-Men targets (sci-fi crowd, comicbook fans). Star Trek anyone?

So I think it's a little coy to not see the pull he has being cast as Professor X. Lets not be silly now.
Who's being silly? Obviously casting him would interest Star Trek fans. But to a general moviegoing public at a time when superhero movies were not the rage they are now? Not so much.

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Who's being silly? Obviously casting him would interest Star Trek fans. But to a general moviegoing public at a time when superhero movies were not the rage they are now? Not so much.
I guess that's debatable. In my opinion, superhero movies always had the potential to be amazing, but Hollywood just didn't appear to take it seriously...we have the original Batman movies to thank for that as well as straight to TV superhero movies of past.

I do believe movies like X1, Spiderman and Batman Begins (with advancements in movie development) started the idea that superhero movies could have mature themes, and cater to adult movie goers.

And I'm willing to bet Patrick Stewart being Patrick Stewart leveraged him a higher salary than say a lesser known actor taking his place.

Same with Halle Berry. At the time of X1, can you name a black actress suitable to play Storm as recognizable as Halle Berry? At that time, I'm pretty sure Halle Berry was one of the more expensive black actress suitable for the role of Storm.

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Same with Halle Berry. At the time of X1, can you name a black actress suitable to play Storm as recognizable as Halle Berry? At that time, I'm pretty sure Halle Berry was one of the more expensive black actress suitable for the role of Storm.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=353981

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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I disagree. It's the first X-Men movie...imo it's the film that always should have had the most potential...and the casting also was sure to bring in movie goers...
Potential is one thing. Execution is another. People take for granted how entirely wrong the X-Men universe could have been portrayed onscreen. You say X-Men had the most potential, but it also had the most potential to fail.

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Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman, and Patrick Stewart.
Save for Stewart, those people were not box office draws before X-Men (if you even want to call him that). If anything, they became box office draws after X-Men, and Hugh Jackman because of X-Men.

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Also, most of the mutants in X1 seem severely under-powered with the exception of Mystique and Wolverine.
That's not surprising. The X-Men come from the comic books, in which they've become over-powered, and the movie has more superheroes in it than most comic book movies do today and on a relatively small budget.

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Potential is one thing. Execution is another. People take for granted how entirely wrong the X-Men universe could have been portrayed onscreen. You say X-Men had the most potential, but it also had the most potential to fail.

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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I disagree. It's the first X-Men movie...imo it's the film that always should have had the most potential...and the casting also was sure to bring in movie goers...Halle Berry, Hugh Jackman, and Patrick Stewart.

I love X1 because it's the first X-men movie...but it's underwhelming on so many levels. Action sequences poorly executed, very slow progression of the plot, weak script (in some areas), and the introduction of those unimaginative costumes. Also, most of the mutants in X1 seem severely under-powered with the exception of Mystique and Wolverine.
X1 was a tentative first step after the disasters of the Batman franchise turned comic book films into no-go zones and box office poison. The studio was understandably nervous, as was everyone else involved i would imagine, hence it was 'toned down' considerably. And it was given a small budget, which meant toning down even more (Blob and Beast were removed from the script, for instance).

The immediate challenge of an X-Men movie is the multiple characters with sometimes bizarre appearances and FX-heavy powers. It's not like having one non-superhuman crimefighter (Batman) or one superhuman one (Superman); there's a whole bunch of X-Men, and that necessitates an equal number of baddies to make battle scenes evenly matched. Making them 'underpowered' was probably partly worry about the genre, worry about the budget, and also trying to make them more relatable - if they are invincible, there is less at stake in a fight.

Then there are the themes and messages. How far do you go with the allegories? Some on here have moaned about the films being too heavy with that stuff although they often haven't gone very far at all in terms of being visceral and brutal (we've never seen a mutant or group of mutants being beaten up on the streets).

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Potential is one thing. Execution is another. People take for granted how entirely wrong the X-Men universe could have been portrayed onscreen. You say X-Men had the most potential, but it also had the most potential to fail.



Save for Stewart, those people were not box office draws before X-Men (if you even want to call him that). If anything, they became box office draws after X-Men, and Hugh Jackman because of X-Men.



That's not surprising. The X-Men come from the comic books, in which they've become over-powered, and the movie has more superheroes in it than most comic book movies do today and on a relatively small budget.
It's always easy to say, it could have been worse. That's just as easy as saying it could have been better. That's true for most circumstances. X1 clearly did not fail, but it's very underwhelming in my opinion. X2 is what I expected for X1, if that makes sense. I can appreciate X1 for what it is, but I wasn't satisfied.

For your second response, that's fair. My point is, if budget is supposedly one of the limiting factors of X1...I'm pretty sure there were less expensive actors/actresses available with talent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the actor playing Toad was from Star Wars Episode 1? Sabretooth actor was wrestling star? Halle Berry was one of the prominent black actresses at the time? Patrick Stewart and previous Star Trek affiliation? Rebecca was a super model?

Who do you think received the higher salary? X1's mystique or XFC's mystique? Serious question.

With that said, is it really hard to not see that maybe the cast selection was intended to pull some movie goers?

For your third response, if you think the X-Men's comic iterations have become too powerful, that's fair. I wonder what you think of meta-humans in the DC Universe then?

I believe another poster mentioned Angela Bassett for the role of Storm, which is who I originally envisioned for the role of Storm...but her age would have caused her to stand out among the cast and despite her great talent...she has never received the recognition Halle Berry has received...even though she has played great roles.

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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For your second response, that's fair. My point is, if budget is supposedly one of the limiting factors of X1...I'm pretty sure there were less expensive actors/actresses available with talent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the actor playing Toad was from Star Wars Episode 1? Sabretooth actor was wrestling star? Halle Berry was one of the prominent black actresses at the time? Patrick Stewart and previous Star Trek affiliation? Rebecca was a super model?
Of those five names you mention, only two were real actors. One was a glorified stuntman, one was a wrestler (would hardly call him a wrestling star, as a big wrestling fan at the time I hadn't even heard of him), and one was a supermodel.

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:15 PM   #25
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Of those five names you mention, only two were real actors. One was a glorified stuntman, one was a wrestler (would hardly call him a wrestling star, as a big wrestling fan at the time I hadn't even heard of him), and one was a supermodel.
LOL yeah, I think I addressed that in my post. thank you for reiterating that. the Rock isn't what you would call a "real actor," but I'm sure he would get paid more than a lesser known "real actor" and maybe even more than some established actors??

Beyonce isn't a "real actor" but I believe she was paid quite well to appear in Austin Powers (3rd movie)...and her acting is just horrible.


As I mentioned in my post before...I'm pretty sure Rebecca the supermodel was offered more in X1 (she even has less lines) than XFC's mystique.

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