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Old 06-11-2011, 08:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

I find it pretty unfair to deride a film that was pretty much responsible for the CBM boom Hollywood has been riding the past 11 years.

Fox had zero faith in the movie.
Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry and to an extent Patrick Stewart were not What they became after the success of X1.
audiences were burned out by CBM after the horrendous bat films.

X1 got people interested in the medium again and to basically go, "oh they couldve made more of an effort." is kind of shady.

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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I find it pretty unfair to deride a film that was pretty much responsible for the CBM boom Hollywood has been riding the past 11 years.

Fox had zero faith in the movie.
Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry and to an extent Patrick Stewart were not What they became after the success of X1.
audiences were burned out by CBM after the horrendous bat films.

X1 got people interested in the medium again and to rag on it's quality now is kind of petty.
LOL It's not that serious. A little melodramatic much? All the reasons you stated should not be justification for a subpar product.

I can appreciate X1 for all it's perceived to have done for the genre. I love the X-Men...I welcome any X-Men movie....but X1 is a lackluster effort to me. X2 is an award winning experience in comparison. I enjoyed X3 as well despite its flaws. There is no love lost.

Petty? Oh, that is so unintentionally ironic of you...lol

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:45 PM   #28
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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LOL yeah, I think I addressed that in my post. thank you for reiterating that. the Rock isn't what you would call a "real actor," but I'm sure he would get paid more than a lesser known "real actor" and maybe even more than some established actors??
I wasn't reiterating your point. None of those "actors" should have commanded high salaries, especially Park and the guy who played Sabretooth (can't even remember his name). I'll maybe give you Rebecca Romijn as receiving a high salary, but who else does that leave us with? I can't think of any other cast member that was a big draw or would have commanded a huge salary, even Stewart and McKellen. Halle Berry hadn't won her Oscar yet. The problem is that you're looking at this through 2011 glasses, you need to buy some 2000 glasses.

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Originally Posted by ThanosOfTitans View Post
LOL It's not that serious. A little melodramatic much? All the reasons you stated should not be justification for a subpar product.

I can appreciate X1 for all it's perceived to have done for the genre. I love the X-Men...I welcome any X-Men movie....but X1 is a lackluster effort to me. X2 is an award winning experience in comparison. I enjoyed X3 as well despite its flaws. There is no love lost.

Petty? Oh, that is so unintentionally ironic of you...lol
Not that your reply was addressed to me, but I'm chiming in...

i don't think X1 is either subpar or lacklustre, but - by comparison with how the genre has evolved since - it does sometimes feel tentative, even underwhelming. I believe that's down to budget and studio nerves.

They tried to get a solid cast, where they could; i just think Rebecca Romijn turned out so much better than everyone thought, considering she was then little more than a supermodel.

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Old 06-11-2011, 08:58 PM   #30
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I wasn't reiterating your point. None of those "actors" should have commanded high salaries, especially Park and the guy who played Sabretooth (can't even remember his name). I'll maybe give you Rebecca Romijn as receiving a high salary, but who else does that leave us with? I can't think of any other cast member that was a big draw or would have commanded a huge salary, even Stewart and McKellen. Halle Berry hadn't won her Oscar yet. The problem is that you're looking at this through 2011 glasses, you need to buy some 2000 glasses.
No, you're failing to realize that even without Halle Berry's Oscar, she was still the most prominent and most marketable black actress at the time (as a candidate for Storm). Could a black actress just as talented (but less well known) as Halle Berry be selected for the role of Storm...yes, but she was selected for a reason. And I'm sure a lesser known black actress with just as much talent as Halle Berry would have costed less.

And you've already validated my point. The fact remains, if budget was supposedly what was holding X1 back. Lesser known, less expensive actors could have been selected. You can't honestly tell me Patrick Stewart's price tag is the same of a lesser known bald actor in the same role as Prof X...whether he "commanded" a higher salary or not...I'm sure he received a salary higher than what a less known actor would have received.

Which honestly has me thinking...X1's Xavier may have also received a higher salary than XMFC's Xavier.

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:03 PM   #31
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Not that your reply was addressed to me, but I'm chiming in...

i don't think X1 is either subpar or lacklustre, but - by comparison with how the genre has evolved since - it does sometimes feel tentative, even underwhelming. I believe that's down to budget and studio nerves.

They tried to get a solid cast, where they could; i just think Rebecca Romijn turned out so much better than everyone thought, considering she was then little more than a supermodel.
I can appreciate and respect your post. I agree with you for the most part.

I guess we just had slightly different initial expectations for X1? I'm a major X-Men fan no matter what.

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Originally Posted by ThanosOfTitans View Post
No, you're failing to realize that even without Halle Berry's Oscar, she was still the most prominent and most marketable black actress at the time (as a candidate for Storm). Could a black actress just as talented (but less well known) as Halle Berry be selected for the role of Storm...yes, but she was selected for a reason. And I'm sure a lesser known black actress with just as much talent as Halle Berry would have costed less.

And you've already validated my point. The fact remains, if budget was supposedly what was holding X1 back. Lesser known, less expensive actors could have been selected. You can't honestly tell me Patrick Stewart's price tag is the same of a lesser known bald actor in the same role as Prof X...whether he "commanded" a higher salary or not...I'm sure he received a salary higher than what a less known actor would have received.

Which honestly has me thinking...X1's Xavier may have also received a higher salary than XMFC's Xavier.
No, you are failing to realize that you are overestimating just how well-known the cast members were. They weren't complete unknowns, but they weren't huge names either. Here's Halle Berry's list of movies up to that point:

Living Dolls
Amen
A Different World
They Came from Outer Space
Knots Landing
Jungle Fever
Strictly Business
The Last Boy Scout
Boomerang
Alex Haley's Queen
CB4
Father Hood
The Program
The Flintstones
Solomon & Sheba
Losing Isaiah
Executive Decision
Race the Sun
Girl 6
The Rich Man's Wife
B*A*P*S
The Wedding
Bulworth
Why Do Fools Fall in Love
Introducing Dorothy Dandridge

There's not exactly anything there that stands out. According to IMDb (I know, not the best source), she received just $2,500,000 to appear in Swordfish, which was released a year after X-Men.

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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No, you are failing to realize that you are overestimating just how well-known the cast members were. They weren't complete unknowns, but they weren't huge names either. Here's Halle Berry's list of movies up to that point:

Living Dolls
Amen
A Different World
They Came from Outer Space
Knots Landing
Jungle Fever
Strictly Business
The Last Boy Scout
Boomerang
Alex Haley's Queen
CB4
Father Hood
The Program
The Flintstones
Solomon & Sheba
Losing Isaiah
Executive Decision
Race the Sun
Girl 6
The Rich Man's Wife
B*A*P*S
The Wedding
Bulworth
Why Do Fools Fall in Love
Introducing Dorothy Dandridge

There's not exactly anything there that stands out. According to IMDb (I know, not the best source), she received just $2,500,000 to appear in Swordfish, which was released a year after X-Men.
So which black actress appropriate for the role of Storm has a career to match? Keep in mind...there are not many young A-list black actresses to start with.

Even now...what black actresses have reached Halle Berry's recognition? It's interesting that you mentioned Angela Basset before...because she recently starred in a movie that released this year...yet I still see more media coverage on Halle Berry...and when was Halle's last movie?

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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So which black actress appropriate for the role of Storm has a career to match? Keep in mind...there are not many young A-list black actresses to start with.

Even now...what black actresses have reached Halle Berry's recognition? It's interesting that you mentioned Angela Basset before...because she recently starred in a movie that released this year...yet I still see more media coverage on Halle Berry...and when was Halle's last movie?
The fact is, in 2000, Halle Berry was recognizable, but not a superstar. That came later. She may have been one of the most recognizable black actresses at the time, but she did not cost that much at the time, regardless of how famous she later became. They got the most bang for their buck.

Looking at other cast members' potential salaries at the time, Patrick Stewart made $9,500,000 for Star Trek: Insurrection and Ian McKellen made about $6 million for the first Lord of the Rings movie. They were most assuredly the two highest paid actors of the cast. I'm going to say that all together, the total for actors' salaries for the first X-Men movie couldn't have been more than $30 million. That's not a big knock on a budget, considering that Hugh Jackman made $20 million by himself for X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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The fact is, in 2000, Halle Berry was recognizable, but not a superstar. That came later. She may have been one of the most recognizable black actresses at the time, but she did not cost that much at the time, regardless of how famous she later became. They got the most bang for their buck.

Looking at other cast members' potential salaries at the time, Patrick Stewart made $9,500,000 for Star Trek: Insurrection and Ian McKellen made about $6 million for the first Lord of the Rings movie. They were most assuredly the two highest paid actors of the cast. I'm going to say that all together, the total for actors' salaries for the first X-Men movie couldn't have been more than $30 million. That's not a big knock on a budget, considering that Hugh Jackman made $20 million by himself for X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
Everything you communicated is all fine and well, but as I said before...Halle Berry surely was more expensive than any other black actress at the time. I've already stated that she may not have been a blockbuster actress at the time.

Just like Patrick Stewart was more expensive than a random actor playing Xaveir...

My argument for the most part has been...lesser known actors/actresses would have been less expensive. I'm not really sure why you're making comparisons to Origins: Wolverine...

X1 has a solid cast and those members were selected for a reason..

How much was Brandon Routh's salary on Superman Returns? I don't know the exact number, but I recall hearing it was pretty low....which would seem appropriate considering he was a lesser known actor.

I wonder who was paid more for their role..Halle Berry as Storm in X1 or Routh as Superman....

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Old 06-11-2011, 10:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

While I'm not dissing X1 ( after all, it was the movie that launched/revitalized the CB movie genre ), I do feel First Class was a superior "origin film" or "first film."

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Old 06-11-2011, 10:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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Everything you communicated is all fine and well, but as I said before...Halle Berry surely was more expensive than any other black actress at the time. I've already stated that she may not have been a blockbuster actress at the time.
But, she wasn't by herself that expensive. They got the most well-known actress that they could without having to spend that much.

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Just like Patrick Stewart was more expensive than a random actor playing Xaveir...
Xavier is one of the lead characters, they couldn't have just got some some random actor to play him. Plus, I would say that there was almost no X-Men fan who didn't want to see him in the part. They almost had to cast him to bring the X-Men fans along. He was probably the highest-paid member of the cast, but not outrageously so.

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My argument for the most part has been...lesser known actors/actresses would have been less expensive. I'm not really sure why you're making comparisons to Origins: Wolverine...
Of course, they could have just made a fan film if they wanted. They had a $75 million dollar budget, not a whole lot for a summer blockbuster. Less than half of that was used to acquire a cast. They were able to secure a few recognizable and respected actors without having to spend too much to get them, but the cast didn't feature any superstars.

Wolverine featured an actor who by himself made 2/3 the amount spent on the first X-Men film's cast in total. The main reason Fox decided to go the prequel and spin-off route is because the budget for X-Men: The Last Stand had become too high due to the actors' increased salaries, which was a result of the actors becoming more noteworthy in the time since the first X-Men film. It wasn't a problem Fox faced in 1999 because the actors weren't as recognizable at that time.

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X1 has a solid cast and those members were selected for a reason..
Right, they got what they thought was the best cast for what they could afford with their budget.

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How much was Brandon Routh's salary on Superman Returns? I don't know the exact number, but I recall hearing it was pretty low....which would seem appropriate considering he was a lesser known actor.

I wonder who was paid more for their role..Halle Berry as Storm in X1 or Routh as Superman....
Brandon Routh made only a million for Superman Returns, so definitely Halle Berry.

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Old 06-11-2011, 11:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

X-men had a budget of $75 million
Filming took place from September 22, 1999 to March 3, 2000
The original start date was mid-1999, with the release date set for Christmas 2000, but Fox moved X-Men to June. Steven Spielberg had been scheduled to film Minority Report for release in June 2000, but he had chosen to film A.I. Artificial Intelligence, and Fox needed a film to fill the void. This meant that Singer had to finish X-Men six months ahead of schedule, although filming had been pushed back. The release date was then moved to July 14.

****

X2 had a budget of $110 million
Filming took place from June 17, 2002 in Vancouver and ended by November.

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Old 06-11-2011, 11:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

I suppose 10 years from now after Fassbender and McAvoy become big stars, people are going to look back as if First Class had an a-list cast.

The first X-Men movie did NOT have a famous cast. American audiences knew Patrick Stewart as the guy from Star Trek.. he was hardly a huge name or a box office draw. Halle Berry was a new up and coming actress, who's career had yet to explode, and no one knew who the hell Hugh Jackman was.

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Old 06-11-2011, 11:35 PM   #40
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

In a way Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman ruined the movies cause they were screen hogs.A movie should never cater to actors like that,it hurts the movie.The reason why Cyclops kept getting screwed over.

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Old 06-11-2011, 11:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

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X1 was a tentative first step after the disasters of the Batman franchise turned comic book films into no-go zones and box office poison. The studio was understandably nervous, as was everyone else involved i would imagine, hence it was 'toned down' considerably. And it was given a small budget, which meant toning down even more (Blob and Beast were removed from the script, for instance).
I understand that part but that shouldn't have affected the script. What bothers me about "X-Men" is that everything is already established. Aside from the opening scene and a few lines of dialogue, we are never given any backstory on the characters and the film's universe. That's what I love about "First Class". It explains everything.

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Old 06-12-2011, 12:06 AM   #42
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

ThanosOfTitans, not to call you out or anything, but reading through the posts, I see that you are making too big a deal about the cast members' salaries. In the end, their salaries did not make a significant impact on the film's budget. Even then, with the film's date being moved up five to six months ahead of schedule and a studio that had little faith in the film to actually give it a generous budget, the salaries of the cast is simply minuscule.

By the way, here's just a random thought since we're all talking about X-Men and stuff. Even though most don't really consider this fact, X-Men is very well one of the most significant films in the history of modern cinema. Plagued production or not, it was a success both financially and critically. Without this film, the last decade of cinema and pop culture as we know it would have been completely different.

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Old 06-12-2011, 12:14 AM   #43
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Without this film, the last decade of cinema and pop culture as we know it would have been completely different.
That's an exaggeration. "Spider-Man", "Daredevil", and "Hulk" were already in production when "X-Men" was released. "Daredevil" and "Hulk" didn't accomplish much but "Spider-Man" dominated the box office in 2002. So without "X-Men" we would have had "Spider-Man" as back-up.

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Old 06-12-2011, 12:26 AM   #44
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That's an exaggeration. "Spider-Man", "Daredevil", and "Hulk" were already in production when "X-Men" was released. "Daredevil" and "Hulk" didn't accomplish much but "Spider-Man" dominated the box office in 2002. So without "X-Men" we would have had "Spider-Man" as back-up.
It's not an exaggeration. Firstly, those films had rotted in development hell and various regimes of pre-production for years and years. None of those films you listed even started production until after X-Men had been released and became a success. In another world, had X-Men failed and bombed at the box office, those other films either wouldn't have started actual production or would have went forward into production later on with much smaller budgets and little faith from the studios.

X-Men and it's success was the factor that propelled the superhero film genre into what it is now. Without X-Men, Spider-Man wouldn't have been what we all know it as today and so on and so forth. If you got transported to a world where X-Men had failed, whatever Spider-Man film that would have came out however many years later wouldn't be the same one that came out in 2002.

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Old 06-12-2011, 12:29 AM   #45
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That's an exaggeration. "Spider-Man", "Daredevil", and "Hulk" were already in production when "X-Men" was released. "Daredevil" and "Hulk" didn't accomplish much but "Spider-Man" dominated the box office in 2002. So without "X-Men" we would have had "Spider-Man" as back-up.
I remember reading somewhere that the budget for the first Spider-Man film was increased due of the success of X-Men.

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Old 06-12-2011, 12:42 AM   #46
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I just saw x men first class to day. It the first x men movie I like and the first one i'm going to buy.

Not saying the films are bad I just don't like the x man.

First class was amazing thu.

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Old 06-12-2011, 01:21 AM   #47
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2000's "X-Men" is the first film in the series. And yet, "First Class" does a better job of introducing the universe and its characters. "First Class" is a prequel, but don't you secretly wish it was a reboot? Matthew Vaughn got things started in the right track, unlike Bryan Singer.
No, I disagree. The characters in this had no backstory, no motivation for what was going on. These kids didn't have families. Riptide and Azazel, we have NO idea who they are or how they came to work for Shaw. Emma Frost, same story. The mutants, except for Charles, Magneto and Mystique, were treated exactly as weapons. They have to be cleaned, maintained and then used in battle. But most of them had no journey or personality. Havok, starts of as a troubled young man, stays that way. Banshee, made funny faces the end. Angel, turned tables like that *snaps* fingers. Beast. Worried he had big feet, like somebody would not f**k a guy that looks like Nicholas Hoult because of his feet. And then when he goes full-furry, he is a-ok with it because there's a battle to be fought!

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Old 06-12-2011, 02:10 AM   #48
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

X-men:

The cast from this film had very low notoriaty, anyone saying otherwise, or that the cast commanded a majority of the budget needs a history lesson...

Halle Berry: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, The Flinstones, (Domestic Gross, $130MM) in a small supporting role. Bigger black, female actresses at time: Vanessa Williams, Holly Robinson Pete, Angela Bassett, more.

Hugh Jackman: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, None. Unless you count the Oklahoma musical TV movie. Other leading male actors more famous at the time? Throw a stone in Hollywood...you'd hit one.

Patrick Stewart: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, Star Trek: Insurrection (Domestic Gross: $70MM). Other choices....none.

James Marsden: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, Disturbing Behavior (Domestic Gross: $15MM).

Tyler Mane: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, None. Known for WCW wrestling.

Anna Paquin: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, Fly Away Home (Domestic Gross: $25MM), super brief role in She's All That (Domestic Gross: $65MM).

Famke Janssen: biggest films with American audiences pre-2000: James Bond: GoldenEye (Domestic Gross: $106 MM) and supporting roles in The Faculty (Domestic Gross: $40MM), and House on Haunted Hill (DG $40MM).

Ian McKellen: biggest films with American audiences pre-2000, Last Action Hero (Domestic Gross: $50MM). Oscar Nominated for Gods and Monsters in 1998, the film made a WHOLE $6 million...

Rebecca Romijn-Stamos: biggest film with American audiences pre-2000, None. Model. Cameo in film Dirty Work.

Ray Park was a supporting actor in Star Wars- Episode I: The Phantom Menace in 1999, but it was a non-speaking role and 99% of audiences would be hard pressed to tell you the actor of Darth Maul's name in the year 2000, or that he and the actor playing Toad were one-in-the-same....


Point being!

Only TWO of these actors had been IN films grossing over $100 million at the time X-men was being made. And those two (Halle Berry and Famke Janssen) were supporting/eye candy roles. Not one of these actors had carried a summer blockbuster before. Stewart was the closest with his Star Trek roles, but those films were never terribly successful, averaging around 40-70 million dollars in domestic sales.


Long story short, the cast in X-men was a gamble and a bunch of no-namers. There could have been a VERY expensive cast.... Some rumors:

- Sarah Michelle Gellar or Christina Ricci as Rogue.
- Angela Basset as Storm.
- James Caveizel was cast as Cyclops but dropped out (also not expensive at the time)
- Vince Vaughn was interested and coming off of the success of The Lost World: Jurassic Park....
- Ed Norton was also in the running for Summers according to AICN back in 99.
- Lucy Lawless of Xena fame was considered for Jean Grey.
- Terrance Stamp and Christopher Lee were considered for Magneto (Stamp famous as General Zod), but McKellen was a friend of Singer's after staring in Apt Pupil.



History lesson complete, hope you learned something. Stop saying Halle, Patrick and Hugh could command big salaries or had clout, that's ridiculous...the FACTS don't lie.


-R

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Old 06-12-2011, 08:49 AM   #49
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

You were correct In all but one respect Star Trek First Contact was most successful Star Trek film In the 90 Million range.Patrick Steward was case of fan casting Since the early 90's many fans wanted him as Xavier.SciFi audences knew who he was many in Geeral audence didn't.Halle Berry was famous but not a Box office draw.Although truthfully she never became one.Her box office hits have been X-Men Films and Die
Another Day.

People need to remember It was a big deal that X-men actully got made.Batmana nd Robin all but killed the genre.Blade was In Production before Batman and Robin opened.
And was pushed back from Fenruary 1998 to August 1998 release.Spider-Man was being cast as X-Men opened.X-Men got studios to want to do comic book films again.Kevin Smith made fun of this In jay and Silent Bob Strike back(which came out In 2001)

Bryan Singer had smaller budgets on both X-Men and X2 than Matthew Vaughn had with First Class.Hell Fantastic four had bigger budget than first X-Men.

Bryan Singer's approach has Influenced others(Like Chris Nolan on Batman and Jon Favraru on Iron Man) Kevin Feige has even said the 2 most Important Marvel films made
were the first X-Men and First Iron Man film.

So far the good X-Men films have been the ones Singer has been Involved with(X-Men,X2,and now First Class) the 1960's setting In First Class and selection of characters comes from Singer.He also Is responable for getting Vaughn on board.

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Old 06-12-2011, 09:42 AM   #50
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Default Re: "First Class" does what "X-Men (2000)" couldn't do.

Even if you take away the legacy that was "X-Men" to comic book movies, the movie was really great, and introduced the world in a quick, realistic, elegant way, it dispensed the origin part of the story for the characters (which was a standard for the few comic book movies that existed at the time) and yet was completely understandable. The only thing "X-Men" didn't do that "First Class" did was being released in 2011.

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